KHV Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I always try and forget that McLeish was here for a year, for me there has been no improvement since McLeish. McLeish was given one year, Lambert is now in year 3 and it is still no better however I believe the squad is now better than when McLeish was here. A better squad but worse results. No that can only be down to management/coaching which is why I firmly believe a massive overhaul is needed. A new manager with a fresh approach, new ideas and some tactical nous would be a start, an assistant manager who is not a complete bell end would be great and some new 1st team coaches need to be bought in too. 100+ games is a long time, long enough to implement a stategy and a style of play. We dont have either of these, the original strategy was abandoned and after 5 mins of watching Bayern train Lambert has decided to start something else all together with style of play. Im afraid apart from being able to pick up a decent player here and there Lambert is terrible of all other aspects of being a manager. A scrappy 2-1 win against a much changed Bournemouth team is not exactly a turning point. I think you're losing sight of a few things. Lambert has, in fact, improved things. Our defence is really good. I really don't buy into the argument about tactics. I dont think he has improved things, the football and the results have been just as poor. I will agree the defence is good now after two years of being appauling under Lambert. I think his selection and set up have cost us massivley since his tenure, also his unwillingness to change anything until too late on in games is also a problem of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 appauling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I always try and forget that McLeish was here for a year, for me there has been no improvement since McLeish. McLeish was given one year, Lambert is now in year 3 and it is still no better however I believe the squad is now better than when McLeish was here. A better squad but worse results. No that can only be down to management/coaching which is why I firmly believe a massive overhaul is needed. A new manager with a fresh approach, new ideas and some tactical nous would be a start, an assistant manager who is not a complete bell end would be great and some new 1st team coaches need to be bought in too. 100+ games is a long time, long enough to implement a stategy and a style of play. We dont have either of these, the original strategy was abandoned and after 5 mins of watching Bayern train Lambert has decided to start something else all together with style of play. Im afraid apart from being able to pick up a decent player here and there Lambert is terrible of all other aspects of being a manager. A scrappy 2-1 win against a much changed Bournemouth team is not exactly a turning point. I think you're losing sight of a few things. Lambert has, in fact, improved things. Our defence is really good. I really don't buy into the argument about tactics. I dont think. I will agree the defence is good. I think his selection. I see you took the liberty of abbreviating my post, so I've done the same with yours I can't prove you wrong about tactics, because that's impossible. You have your belief and I have mine. For example, I happen to agree that Lambert should make his subs earlier, but there's also an argument for having confidence in your starting lineup. Either way, If we had a squad full of 5 - 10 million pound players (which shouldn't be too much to ask), we would probably not be having this discussion because we'd be winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm not entirely sure what the bit in bold is trying to get at. Are you trying to say that he inherited a couple of players he was happy with, added some more until getting 7 players he was happy with and has then had to add a further 4 more this season (or, roughly 36% of his first team)? If so, surely that's still a pretty big change each season and 3 seasons down the line? The point I'm making is that he's had the majority of his current strongest 11 here since day 1. Guzan, Hutton, Clark/vlaar, delph, weimman, gabby were all with him before his first game and benteke joined a couple of games later. That's 7 players who make up our strongest starting 11 virtually 3 years later so he had a fairly strong starting point to begin with. It really has been a rebuilding project since day one - it's not even remotely exaggerated. If anything, it's hugely downplayed by his biggest critics. I understand people saying they want/expected more from it, fine, but to deny it is just silly. I'm not denying it, I think he has a rebuild job to do, I just don't think it justifies how slow its been to actually improve or actually to start to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 He had to achieve that with 1. An owner going awol and putting the club on the market 2. A CEO being replaced 3. Losing assistant managers 4. Long term injuries to key players that would either be traded or help to develop the team while they were still here 5. A supporter base who, while very patient, were in the main looking for more instant turn around given the history and stature of the club 6. A club that when he joined were heading in one direction, had no consistent approach, no playing philosophy. 1) an owner Lambert consistently praises. 2) why is that something thats made his job difficult? 3) his fault. 4) every team has injuries 5) I doubt many clubs would have been as patient as we have been. He also replaced a truly hated manager. 6) true. Not sure that's a massive thing to deal with when you're given plenty of time from the owner. That's a really weak list to try and justify what we've seen over his time here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. Ignoring the obsession with money for a moment, are you telling me that the squad we have is only good enough for a relegation battle? Forget prices, look at the ability of those players, how good they should be performing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. Ignoring the obsession with money for a moment, are you telling me that the squad we have is only good enough for a relegation battle? Forget prices, look at the ability of those players, how good they should be performing. Sorry, but you're not allowed to ignore the money thing. Calling it an "obsession" doesn't make it one bit less of a factor in our struggles. We're not in a relegation battle. The season is half way through. Many if not most of us agreed that the only half decent point at which to judge our season in progress was after 19 games. That has come and gone with us in 12th place, and still we're apparently doomed to be in a "relegation battle". Our attacking players could be performing better and part of that may or may not be the manager's fault, but confidence is a huge part of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'd just like to say that for killing a bit of time between Twitter rumours in the Transfers thread, this Lambert thread iz da best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. Ignoring the obsession with money for a moment, are you telling me that the squad we have is only good enough for a relegation battle? Forget prices, look at the ability of those players, how good they should be performing. Sorry, but you're not allowed to ignore the money thing. Calling it an "obsession" doesn't make it one bit less of a factor in our struggles. We're not in a relegation battle. The season is half way through. Many if not most of us agreed that the only half decent point at which to judge our season in progress was after 19 games. That has come and gone with us in 12th place, and still we're apparently doomed to be in a "relegation battle". Our attacking players could be performing better and part of that may or may not be the manager's fault, but confidence is a huge part of it. How many games left do we have to have before it's a battle? Going on the previous years we are in a relegation battle and have been since the start of the season and will be until we have 40 pts a figure that we have struggled to get over in the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. Ignoring the obsession with money for a moment, are you telling me that the squad we have is only good enough for a relegation battle? Forget prices, look at the ability of those players, how good they should be performing. Sorry, but you're not allowed to ignore the money thing. Calling it an "obsession" doesn't make it one bit less of a factor in our struggles. We're not in a relegation battle. The season is half way through. Many if not most of us agreed that the only half decent point at which to judge our season in progress was after 19 games. That has come and gone with us in 12th place, and still we're apparently doomed to be in a "relegation battle". Our attacking players could be performing better and part of that may or may not be the manager's fault, but confidence is a huge part of it. Were we in a relegation battle last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For there to be balanced discussion from both sides of the argument things like injuries and lack of funds cannot be ignored just as much as our awful goalscoring record can't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 27, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2015 every team has injuries Please not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements. The injuries we've had creates an interesting angle with which to look at the club and it's leadership. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/11211882/Southampton-reveal-secret-to-their-success-in-quest-to-reach-promised-land-of-the-Champions-League.html This article shows how Southampton have "had the lowest soft-tissue rates in the Premier League" over the last 2 seasons. It isn't by luck, it's the time and financial investment made in their training facilities and the sports science staff. Much was made of Lerner's investment in finishing Bodymoor after he took over from Ellis, but how much investment was made in the infrastructure and staff? It's fine having a new building with a nice pool and new machines but you need much more than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) every team has injuriesPlease not this again. There is just no way you can look at who has been injured, for how long, and when, without realising that our luck has been freakishly bad - and made all the worse by the lack of funds for replacements.Ignoring the obsession with money for a moment, are you telling me that the squad we have is only good enough for a relegation battle? Forget prices, look at the ability of those players, how good they should be performing. Sorry, but you're not allowed to ignore the money thing. Calling it an "obsession" doesn't make it one bit less of a factor in our struggles. We're not in a relegation battle. The season is half way through. Many if not most of us agreed that the only half decent point at which to judge our season in progress was after 19 games. That has come and gone with us in 12th place, and still we're apparently doomed to be in a "relegation battle". Our attacking players could be performing better and part of that may or may not be the manager's fault, but confidence is a huge part of it.How many games left do we have to have before it's a battle? Going on the previous years we are in a relegation battle and have been since the start of the season and will be until we have 40 pts a figure that we have struggled to get over in the last few seasons. Wait, so are you saying every team is in a relegation battle until they hit 40 points? Or does that just apply to us? Edited January 27, 2015 by sexbelowsound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Were we in a relegation battle last year? We sure were, amigo. When your two best strikers and your best defender (representing half your spend) plus your most expensive player are injured, don't expect much better unless you're starting out as Chelsea or Man City. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well, I've been wrong before... Fans are now more clued up to the fact that any victory under Lambert is simply a one off. We've been burnt too many times by big wins being the "turning point of our season"! Now, they're just a blip in our normally abysmal year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Many if not most of us agreed that the only half decent point at which to judge our season in progress was after 19 games. That has come and gone with us in 12th place, and still we're apparently doomed to be in a "relegation battle". Oh so it was a successful first half of the season? Our points total after 19 games was poor and most sensible people could see we wouldn't stay in 12th long. And we're not in a relegation battle? The way you ignore reality to defend the manager is impressive I have to say. Were we in a relegation battle last year? We sure were, amigo. When your two best strikers and your best defender (representing half your spend) plus your most expensive player are injured, don't expect much better unless you're starting out as Chelsea or Man City. Yay. The old you can't possibly expect any better defence again. I do enjoy it when this comes out every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Bournemouth outplayed us in the first half. Second half we were the better side for the majority but I'm still concerned. I don't think we played that well on Sunday. Just hope Gil and Benteke can get us a few goals over the next 6 or 7 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yeah every team has injuries but pretty sure last season we were in the top 3 for most injuries. Injuries affect us far more than they affect arsenal for example. We were missing our 2 main strikers for part of the season, not sure any team could cope with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Edit Edited January 27, 2015 by foreveryoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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