VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I see the financial restrictions card is still doing the rounds. Alex Mcleish got sacked from Aston Villa for finishing 16th in the league, with the team on 38 points and managing to score 37 goals. That was deemed as not good enough. Since Paul Lambert was appointed we, and the other current 19 premier league teams, have obviously all purchased and sold a number of players. Adding together the combined amount we have either recouped or spent on these transfers will tell us what total amount of cash has been committed to transfer fees. Let's have a look at the overall positions! Villa £49.1m spent -given a bid for Tom Cleverley was accepted for £8m you could arguably add £4.8m (assuming £3.2m of that has since been spent on Gil) to this in terms of what has been made available. Burnley £0.7m spent Palace £18.5m spent Hull £51.1m spent Everton £18.2m spent Leicester £14.2m spent Newcastle £19.4m spent QPR £49.6m spent Southampton £33.8m spent (supplemented by some big sales) Stoke £23.0m spent Sunderland £37.6m spent Swansea £7.3m recouped. Spurs £12.3m recouped (supplemented by the Bale sale) West Brom £13.4m spent. The reality is Lambert has had more money overall given to him than 11* of the other current premier league teams. In fact, if we concluded the deal after the bid was accepted for Cleverley (that the club agreed to support Lambert and pay) the overall money given would have been more than 13 other teams in the premier league. Hardly the sob story that some make out IMO. Now we sit in 15th in the league, with the team on 22 points and 11 goals scored. So much for doing so well on such a small budget. Starting with a team who finished 16th and were under performing we've spent more than most and are arguably a worse team than we were then! There's only one Paul Lambert! * Yes I know Southampton and Tottenham sold some expensive players - that is partly what decent managers do - they develop players and get the most out of them! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Lambert out, please 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its the system. We are way to tight in the centre of the pitch. Neither Sissokho or Hutton should be used as creators on the wing, its crazy, they cannot cross a ball for shit. We need to open out if we are going to use the possession game, diagonal balls, throught balls. I heard Pardew on talkshite saying how he is coaching Crystal palace into playing expansive football, he quoted Villa saying "you cannot play such a tight game as Villa do as it just does not work in the premier League." Seems everyone realises it apart from Lambert. so if you dont want the full backs to overlap, what role do you have in mind for them? No-one said they couldn't overlap, but for a while now they've been our primary source of attacking play and given that they're not great crossers that's not a great idea. How many forward passes our runs have our midfielders made in recent matches? Why did the crowd get so excited when Gil came on? We need other attacking options, not just to do the same thing over and over again. I agree. Not easy though with the current squad. It gets expensive to recruit effective attacking midfielders who also deliver solidity when you defend. Bacuna and Grealish offer something going forward but perhaps at a cost elsewhere? Lets hope Gil continues from his good start and that we can get a Sinclair-type in too Remember we have seen quality from this team, beating Chelsea, liverplop and Man city previous seasons. Also where has the attacking intent gone when we beat Sunderland 6-1. Can't be that we need 20 million quid players in the squad to score goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. I'll judge at the end of the season. The height of my expectations is 10th, but realistically I would settle for whatever position say 42 points brings (12th last season). Where would we need to finish for you to change your mind on Lambert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I see the financial restrictions card is still doing the rounds. Alex Mcleish got sacked from Aston Villa for finishing 16th in the league, with the team on 38 points and managing to score 37 goals. That was deemed as not good enough. Since Paul Lambert was appointed we, and the other current 19 premier league teams, have obviously all purchased and sold a number of players. Adding together the combined amount we have either recouped or spent on these transfers will tell us what total amount of cash has been committed to transfer fees. Let's have a look at the overall positions! Villa £49.1m spent -given a bid for Tom Cleverley was accepted for £8m you could arguably add £4.8m (assuming £3.2m of that has since been spent on Gil) to this in terms of what has been made available. Burnley £0.7m spent Palace £18.5m spent Hull £51.1m spent Everton £18.2m spent Leicester £14.2m spent Newcastle £19.4m spent QPR £49.6m spent Southampton £33.8m spent (supplemented by some big sales) Stoke £23.0m spent Sunderland £37.6m spent Swansea £7.3m recouped. Spurs £12.3m recouped (supplemented by the Bale sale) West Brom £13.4m spent. The reality is Lambert has had more money overall given to him than 11* of the other current premier league teams. In fact, if we concluded the deal after the bid was accepted for Cleverley (that the club agreed to support Lambert and pay) the overall money given would have been more than 13 other teams in the premier league. Hardly the sob story that some make out IMO. Now we sit in 15th in the league, with the team on 22 points and 11 goals scored. So much for doing so well on such a small budget. Starting with a team who finished 16th and were under performing we've spent more than most and are arguably a worse team than we were then! There's only one Paul Lambert! * Yes I know Southampton and Tottenham sold some expensive players - that is partly what decent managers do - they develop players and get the most out of them! This has been done to death. We've spent four times what Spurs have spent - yeah right! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I see the financial restrictions card is still doing the rounds. Yeah, and so is its siamese twin the nett spend card by the look of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. I'll judge at the end of the season. The height of my expectations is 10th, but realistically I would settle for whatever position say 42 points brings (12th last season). Where would we need to finish for you to change your mind on Lambert? Having witnessed more recent events and the current situation we find ourselves in I cannot foresee a situation this season where I will be changing my mind about Paul Lambert. Why would I change a stance that has been underpinned by over two and a half years of mainly utter garbage performances and results based on the 16 games that are left this season? He would have to survive in the PL this season and finish in the top half of the league next season for me to consider a change of heart. As for you mentioning 42 points, I hope you were just joking because we will get nowhere near that amount of points without a significant shift in fortunes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its the system. We are way to tight in the centre of the pitch. Neither Sissokho or Hutton should be used as creators on the wing, its crazy, they cannot cross a ball for shit. We need to open out if we are going to use the possession game, diagonal balls, throught balls. I heard Pardew on talkshite saying how he is coaching Crystal palace into playing expansive football, he quoted Villa saying "you cannot play such a tight game as Villa do as it just does not work in the premier League." Seems everyone realises it apart from Lambert. so if you dont want the full backs to overlap, what role do you have in mind for them? No-one said they couldn't overlap, but for a while now they've been our primary source of attacking play and given that they're not great crossers that's not a great idea. How many forward passes our runs have our midfielders made in recent matches? Why did the crowd get so excited when Gil came on? We need other attacking options, not just to do the same thing over and over again. I agree. Not easy though with the current squad. It gets expensive to recruit effective attacking midfielders who also deliver solidity when you defend. Bacuna and Grealish offer something going forward but perhaps at a cost elsewhere? Lets hope Gil continues from his good start and that we can get a Sinclair-type in too Remember we have seen quality from this team, beating Chelsea, liverplop and Man city previous seasons. Also where has the attacking intent gone when we beat Sunderland 6-1. Can't be that we need 20 million quid players in the squad to score goals. Very true, I understand and agree that it's disappointing at the moment. Confidence is a massive factor and we have none at the moment - we need one to go in off someone backside to change our luck. I really get the Lambert out calls, I truthfully do but I worry that we could not attract someone who could do better. Newcastle fans wanted Pardew gone bit that will only be a wise move if they can recruit better I might be in the minority but I think he is a decent manager in a difficult situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its the system. We are way to tight in the centre of the pitch. Neither Sissokho or Hutton should be used as creators on the wing, its crazy, they cannot cross a ball for shit. We need to open out if we are going to use the possession game, diagonal balls, throught balls. I heard Pardew on talkshite saying how he is coaching Crystal palace into playing expansive football, he quoted Villa saying "you cannot play such a tight game as Villa do as it just does not work in the premier League." Seems everyone realises it apart from Lambert. so if you dont want the full backs to overlap, what role do you have in mind for them? No-one said they couldn't overlap, but for a while now they've been our primary source of attacking play and given that they're not great crossers that's not a great idea. How many forward passes our runs have our midfielders made in recent matches? Why did the crowd get so excited when Gil came on? We need other attacking options, not just to do the same thing over and over again. I agree. Not easy though with the current squad. It gets expensive to recruit effective attacking midfielders who also deliver solidity when you defend. Bacuna and Grealish offer something going forward but perhaps at a cost elsewhere? Lets hope Gil continues from his good start and that we can get a Sinclair-type in too Remember we have seen quality from this team, beating Chelsea, liverplop and Man city previous seasons. Also where has the attacking intent gone when we beat Sunderland 6-1. Can't be that we need 20 million quid players in the squad to score goals. Very true, I understand and agree that it's disappointing at the moment. Confidence is a massive factor and we have none at the moment - we need one to go in off someone backside to change our luck. I really get the Lambert out calls, I truthfully do but I worry that we could not attract someone who could do better. Newcastle fans wanted Pardew gone bit that will only be a wise move if they can recruit better I might be in the minority but I think he is a decent manager in a difficult situation Never a truer word spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. I'll judge at the end of the season. The height of my expectations is 10th, but realistically I would settle for whatever position say 42 points brings (12th last season). Where would we need to finish for you to change your mind on Lambert? Having witnessed more recent events and the current situation we find ourselves in I cannot foresee a situation this season where I will be changing my mind about Paul Lambert. Why would I change a stance that has been underpinned by over two and a half years of mainly utter garbage performances and results based on the 16 games that are left this season? He would have to survive in the PL this season and finish in the top half of the league next season for me to consider a change of heart. As for you mentioning 42 points, I hope you were just joking because we will get nowhere near that amount of points without a significant shift in fortunes. So really debating this with you is pointless - no matter what we do this season you want him gone So if he we finished on 42 points you still want him out? If we finished 10th you still want him out? If we win the FA Cup you still want him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 If we had won all our games we would be top of the league! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I just don't see what he's done here for anyone to say he's a decent manager. 98 pl games and 101 points. There's little decent about his time here. Apart from a 10 game spell at the end of his first season he's shown nothing to suggest he's a decent manager. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its the system. We are way to tight in the centre of the pitch. Neither Sissokho or Hutton should be used as creators on the wing, its crazy, they cannot cross a ball for shit. We need to open out if we are going to use the possession game, diagonal balls, throught balls. I heard Pardew on talkshite saying how he is coaching Crystal palace into playing expansive football, he quoted Villa saying "you cannot play such a tight game as Villa do as it just does not work in the premier League." Seems everyone realises it apart from Lambert. so if you dont want the full backs to overlap, what role do you have in mind for them? No-one said they couldn't overlap, but for a while now they've been our primary source of attacking play and given that they're not great crossers that's not a great idea. How many forward passes our runs have our midfielders made in recent matches? Why did the crowd get so excited when Gil came on? We need other attacking options, not just to do the same thing over and over again. I agree. Not easy though with the current squad. It gets expensive to recruit effective attacking midfielders who also deliver solidity when you defend. Bacuna and Grealish offer something going forward but perhaps at a cost elsewhere? Lets hope Gil continues from his good start and that we can get a Sinclair-type in too Remember we have seen quality from this team, beating Chelsea, liverplop and Man city previous seasons. Also where has the attacking intent gone when we beat Sunderland 6-1. Can't be that we need 20 million quid players in the squad to score goals. Very true, I understand and agree that it's disappointing at the moment. Confidence is a massive factor and we have none at the moment - we need one to go in off someone backside to change our luck. I really get the Lambert out calls, I truthfully do but I worry that we could not attract someone who could do better. Newcastle fans wanted Pardew gone bit that will only be a wise move if they can recruit better I might be in the minority but I think he is a decent manager in a difficult situation Never a truer word spoken. These are just pointless cheap shots that add nothing to the debate If we had won all our games we would be top of the league! .and pacbuddies would still want him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. I'll judge at the end of the season. The height of my expectations is 10th, but realistically I would settle for whatever position say 42 points brings (12th last season). Where would we need to finish for you to change your mind on Lambert? If we finish 16th again whatever. If some people think its all Lerners fault fine, if its nothing to do with lambert ok i'll agree But our biggest problem at the moment is about the goals not being scored which is the main worry now. There is no way we should not be struggling for goals with this squad, no excuses. We have a top striker in Benteke, if we can't score, just play to his strengths, anything, i will even support the mighty hoof. But pray to McGrath we need to find a way to score goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I just don't see what he's done here for anyone to say he's a decent manager. 98 pl games and 101 points. There's little decent about his time here. Apart from a 10 game spell at the end of his first season he's shown nothing to suggest he's a decent manager. Not just here but elsewhere too Patrick Barclay said on Sunday Supplement that "Lambert is a good manager" ...but whether Lambert is decent or clueless is just a sideshow - until we get new ownership we are always going to struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know what all the moans and groans are for on this thread. We are 15th ffs. As 11th is the best i would expect we're in and around then! Good Glad you are happy. Let me know when we are so low that you no longer consider us to be 'in and around' where you would expect us to be at best. I'll judge at the end of the season. The height of my expectations is 10th, but realistically I would settle for whatever position say 42 points brings (12th last season). Where would we need to finish for you to change your mind on Lambert? Having witnessed more recent events and the current situation we find ourselves in I cannot foresee a situation this season where I will be changing my mind about Paul Lambert. Why would I change a stance that has been underpinned by over two and a half years of mainly utter garbage performances and results based on the 16 games that are left this season? He would have to survive in the PL this season and finish in the top half of the league next season for me to consider a change of heart. As for you mentioning 42 points, I hope you were just joking because we will get nowhere near that amount of points without a significant shift in fortunes. So really debating this with you is pointless - no matter what we do this season you want him gone So if he we finished on 42 points you still want him out? If we finished 10th you still want him out? If we win the FA Cup you still want him out? If he got 42 points that would 1 more than his first year so no real progress. What's the point in keeping someone who can't progress 2 years later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You have to look at things on the whole. Fair enough the forwards aren't scoring-but why? This is partially down to the midfield which would then lead to look at selections..tactics..formation...manager etc. There comes a point when you can't continually blame the players. The thing is unless you play a system that suits the players or they are played in natural positions how can you really judge them? There is a real unbalance with the team at the moment and I would go as far as saying that when we do go forward we look completely fragile down the flanks. Even in games whereby we've missed chances, so did the opposition. Expecting Hutton and cissokho to provide width and balance to the attack without wide cover leaves them exposed and us open to the counter. Little thing's like this need to be addressed and until they are people can bang on about this player and that player are to blame but we will still see the same results. It's easy to blame players but sooner or later who is responsible for how they play if it's continually not working?! I don't see too many people putting all the blame on the players? But certainly for me this is a factor - I beleive our forwards have been poor this season in both creating chances and scoring them - Benteke, Gabby and Weimann are all capable of better I agree about the lack of width - but spotting it is one thing and sorting it out not to the detriment of another area of our game is another. Many on here will have their view on selections, tactics and formations - I'm not making any excuses for Lambert but very often a fans have a simplistic view of things. "we should attack more" "we need to play two wingers" "Through Grealish and Robinson in they couldn't do any worse" etc etc. I just think that it is much more complicated and delicate than that We're struggling at the moment - with the squad we have I would have liked to see us on 6-8 points more by now. Some to the reason for that is poor form of players, some is injuries, some is sendings off, and some I'm sure are things that the manager and coaching staff could have done better If Mourinho becomes available, or Fergie comes out of retirement, I'd be in the Lambert out camp but at the moment I'm forced to stick with him over an unknown, random manager in the Magath, Curbishly Mccarthy-mold. Last season people were asking for Rednapp, Bruce or Pearce - would you take any of them now? I wouldn't VillaCas totally agree with some of the point's you've made but let me try and answer the bold if possible without offending. Firstly can anyone honestly say as shit as gabby is at times since benteke has come back he isn't just being facilitated in an AM/support role? Gabby never plays there and to play to his strengths you need to give him space with the ball infront- not with his back to goal which is how he has being played. Wiemann plays best when up top through the middle, not as a link up player. And I think Benteke has been feeding off scraps the last few games in fairness to him. The width issue I completely understand where your coming from with,' the detriment to other areas' comment, let me say this though. Footballers might not in general all be the smartest of cookies but top level footballers are very knowledgeable when it comes to positional patterns, passages of play, etc. If there are deficiencies then good coaching and instructions should improve things eventually especially with decent players- which we have. Also if players aren't pulling their weight then why is that? And why are they not getting dropped? Personally I'm not interested in simplistic views without talking about possible resolutions. As for the managers you mentioned I wouldn't want any of them but that doesn't mean there aren't managers out there that would come and do a better job. Not knowing something is never reason enough to not try and find find out what it is you don't know! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I just don't see what he's done here for anyone to say he's a decent manager. 98 pl games and 101 points. There's little decent about his time here. Apart from a 10 game spell at the end of his first season he's shown nothing to suggest he's a decent manager. Not just here but elsewhere too Patrick Barclay said on Sunday Supplement that "Lambert is a good manager" ...but whether Lambert is decent or clueless is just a sideshow - until we get new ownership we are always going to struggle The media seem to like him. I'm not sure he will go on to do much. He doesn't look anything like the manager we were getting from Norwich now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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