mykeyb Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Christ now the performance against Spurs was now superb, talk about some people having an agenda. This comment sums up the problem with this thread. Take the comment about how we were playing superb against Spurs prior to the sending off. Realise that statement doesn't fit your biased view. So change the statement to be the whole 2-1 loss against Spurs as being described as superb, boom nobody cares if anyone actually said it. People believe someone said it because you attributed it to someone as their "agenda". Sometimes I'm amazed at the things people post. But really, a football forum is by and large the last place for anything sensible or reasoned to be posted. The idea of debate is utterly impossible. Reasoned debate then mate. What exactly was superb about the performance up to when Benteke was sent off. The passing, the movement, the interplay, the attacking intent....anything? I would class a superb display as one like when we beat Leeds in the League Cup or when we beat Liverpool 5 - 1 in 76 I saw the game and say we played OK and nothing more, Spurs werent very good. For those of us who used to read the Argos what would they have rated the performance? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Some fans me included want Lambert out because in my opinion he hasn't coached players and improved them, he appears tactically inept, he doesn't appear after 2.5 years got his team playing to any recognisable system or game plan, his signings don't appear to have any plan to them and lastly his team play dour, boring defensive non-football that if being played by other teams we would all be giving stick for. If he changes the above he will get my support but not until. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Christ now the performance against Spurs was now superb, talk about some people having an agenda. This comment sums up the problem with this thread. Take the comment about how we were playing superb against Spurs prior to the sending off. Realise that statement doesn't fit your biased view. So change the statement to be the whole 2-1 loss against Spurs as being described as superb, boom nobody cares if anyone actually said it. People believe someone said it because you attributed it to someone as their "agenda". Sometimes I'm amazed at the things people post. But really, a football forum is by and large the last place for anything sensible or reasoned to be posted. The idea of debate is utterly impossible. Reasoned debate then mate. What exactly was superb about the performance up to when Benteke was sent off. The passing, the movement, the interplay, the attacking intent....anything? I would class a superb display as one like when we beat Leeds in the League Cup or when we beat Liverpool 5 - 1 in 76 I saw the game and say we played OK and nothing more, Spurs werent very good. For those of us who used to read the Argos what would they have rated the performance? Compared to the trash that we had served up in previous games then I might stretch to good up until Benteke got sent off. Compared to many games that I have witnessed over the last 40 years or so, it was average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villafanalways Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Some proper questioning eventually by a journalist,it was Pete Colley putting PL under pressure here... http://tinyurl.com/Lambert-tough-questioning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 It may be me but to be brutally honest I have no clue what you are trying to say in that example. Liverpool spent 10M, we would have spent 8M so gross spend is more. The player they sold to fund that or the loss of his skill is irrelevant really as the manager would have spent the 10M that was available to him. Thats because we are comparing spend The fact that Suarez, in this example, left is not irrelevant. By just focussing on the £8m and £10m figures you miss the big picture of what has happened at the club (in this example Suarez leaving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 If Liverpool were skint enough to have to sell a player for 100 mill and only buy a 10 mill player to replace him, making their gross spend 10 million to Aston Villa's 8 million, then that does, in fact, give you a good idea of what to expect of the two teams. Please disagree with this, I double dareya. If, instead, Liverpool spent 92 million, making both teams' nett spend 8 million, the nett spend fails to highlight the fact that Liverpool now have a 92 million pound player and Aston Villa have an 8 million pound player. Regarding the first point, as your comparing gross spends the fact that a player has been sold for £100m wouldn't come into you reckoning! You would be comparing £10m vs £8m and missing the picture of what has happened at the club (so much for the gross spend being the best idea of what is going on!). Unless of course you want to take player sales into account as well or do managers not do that? In relation to your second point if Liverpool spent £92m (after selling a player for £100m per the example) their net spend would not be £8m. It would in fact be a net £8m received. Thanks for that stick of rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) A few pages ago I asked whether Lambert could change people's opinions of him or whether he was too far gone without actually answering myself (and thanks for the responses by the way, some interesting thoughts). For me, villa haven't shown enough during Lambert's tenure to make me think that things are likely to get better. While I can happily acknowledge that Lambert had been operating under some restrictions regarding wages and injuries, things that he couldn't control, it's the things that he can control that worry me. So, for Lambert to convince me that he could turn things around he'd have to start showing a great deal more tactical flexibility. Obviously tactics and formation are dictated by the players available, which are in turn dictated in part by budget and injury, but Lambert has shown no ability to react to matches as they unfold. We have one tactic and we stick to it regardless of who we face or how the match is actually going. You'll have to forgive my poor memory, but I recall a match towards the end of last season where we went in at half time with the score at 0-0. During the break the opposition manager made two changes designed to exploit weaknesses down our left flank. Both substitutes scored in the second half. I cannot recall Lambert ever dictating the shape of a match by making changes in a similar manner, but he is of course limited by the available bench. But damningly, he failed to do anything to address the weakness on our flank, even after we'd conceded the first goal. This is my major complaint about Lambert - that he displays no ability to react to changes in the match and make decisions to change things for the better. Showing me something, anything, along those lines would encourage me to believe that we MIGHT just make it out of this mess. While we keep doing the same thing and it keeps not working I fail to see why I should believe it's going to get any better. Edited November 27, 2014 by Villanun 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 If Liverpool were skint enough to have to sell a player for 100 mill and only buy a 10 mill player to replace him, making their gross spend 10 million to Aston Villa's 8 million, then that does, in fact, give you a good idea of what to expect of the two teams. Please disagree with this, I double dareya. If, instead, Liverpool spent 108 million, making both teams' nett spend 8 million, the nett spend fails to highlight the fact that Liverpool now have a 108 million pound player and Aston Villa have an 8 million pound player. Regarding the first point, as your comparing gross spends the fact that a player has been sold for £100m wouldn't come into you reckoning! You would be comparing £10m vs £8m and missing the picture of what has happened at the club (so much for the gross spend being the best idea of what is going on!). Unless of course you want to take player sales into account as well or do managers not do that? In relation to your second point if Liverpool spent £92m (after selling a player for £100m per the example) their net spend would not be £8m. It would in fact be a net £8m received. Thanks for that stick of rock. Touche on the second point: Yes, I probably should have said 108 million, eh?! (I've taken the liberty of editing your quote of my post so that I look less foolish ) But the essence of what I'm saying is completely correct, and seeing as this particular point isn't about whether we want Lambert staying or going, you might as well just try to understand, and move on, seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Touche on the second point: Yes, I probably should have said 108 million, eh?! (I've taken the liberty of editing your quote of my post so that I look less foolish ) But the essence of what I'm saying is completely correct, and seeing as this particular point isn't about whether we want Lambert staying or going, you might as well just try to understand, and move on, seriously. Agree on the first point Regarding the second point unless you also consider what money has been generated as part of the transfer process you'll continue to not have the best idea of what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Christ now the performance against Spurs was now superb, talk about some people having an agenda. This comment sums up the problem with this thread. Take the comment about how we were playing superb against Spurs prior to the sending off. Realise that statement doesn't fit your biased view. So change the statement to be the whole 2-1 loss against Spurs as being described as superb, boom nobody cares if anyone actually said it. People believe someone said it because you attributed it to someone as their "agenda". Sometimes I'm amazed at the things people post. But really, a football forum is by and large the last place for anything sensible or reasoned to be posted. The idea of debate is utterly impossible. Reasoned debate then mate. What exactly was superb about the performance up to when Benteke was sent off. The passing, the movement, the interplay, the attacking intent....anything? I would class a superb display as one like when we beat Leeds in the League Cup or when we beat Liverpool 5 - 1 in 76 I saw the game and say we played OK and nothing more, Spurs werent very good. For those of us who used to read the Argos what would they have rated the performance? people like you and me....i think we are wasting our time. they are entitled to their opinion.....let em have it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Some proper questioning eventually by a journalist,it was Pete Colley putting PL under pressure here... http://tinyurl.com/Lambert-tough-questioning Looks like a manager under pressure to me. Agree good questioning by Colley made Lambert sound a bit of a politician avoiding direct answers. No more mention of budget retrictions or injuries. If he feels there is better in the team he should come out and say it, instead of i.e NZog had a real good game??? He is putting alot of undue pressure on himself. I also believe the fact, as Colley implied, its a little easy to be a player at the Villa at the moment no real direction from Lambert an no one really to kick ass, Keane won't do it as I believe its a bit of a part time job for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I try not to let this thread wind me up but I feel some people are missing the point of the more 'pro-Lambert' argument. It's fine to disagree with it or not place the same importance on some mitigating circumstances but some just seem to completely miss the point in the argument for Lambert. No-one is saying he's marvelous, no-one is saying they are happy with either the squad, the playing style or the results. What they are saying is the bulk of the blame is not Lambert's but Lerner's. I hate our style, a number of players are substandard and it is a horrible time to be a fan. People are saying we 'should' be able to compete with the likes of West Ham and Sunderland etc, why? Last season we did which is a credit to Lambert as he spent less than them. This season they all strengthened. Someone mentioned "we're as bad as Burnley, Leicester, Palace and QPR" - we SHOULD be! Only one of them has invested less than us! What gives us a divine right to be higher than these teams? They invested in their squad, we didn't. Yet we're still in there fighting. Based on CURRENT transfers and wages (i.e. not those inherited from MON or McLeish) our top signing is £4.5m Sanchez! We operate as a small team trying to survive. So, whilst very very unhappy about it, Lambert is succeeding in keeping us up. Is that good enough? Clearly not, but Lambert can't do anything about it, only Lerner can. Please name any other team that has both played better and finished higher than us in recent years who has invested the same amount we have. Wigan played better and got relegated, others spent. And for the record, of those teams we should 'compete' with as a divine right (anyone outside last years top 6) we have only lost to QPR this season. but we are not missing the point, maybe you could be.... some of us have a different point. There is clear evidence of teams spending less than us and playing better football....There are teams who have spent more,but that money has been generated from previously prudent business as opposed to the benevolence of the owner...our owner has spent 110 mill in his time here....not saying he is blameless, but we should have a better outfit than we have got with that money spent by successive managers. we have crashed and burnt so many players its embarrasing. we can't beat lower teams in cup competitions.....surely we spent enough to at least do that. I think there is a valid argument to say Lerner has starved us of funds over the last 4 years....my worry is I certainly don't think the problem just lies there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Some proper questioning eventually by a journalist,it was Pete Colley putting PL under pressure here... http://tinyurl.com/Lambert-tough-questioning Looks like a manager under pressure to me. Agree good questioning by Colley made Lambert sound a bit of a politician avoiding direct answers. No more mention of budget retrictions or injuries. If he feels there is better in the team he should come out and say it, instead of i.e NZog had a real good game??? He is putting alot of undue pressure on himself. I also believe the fact, as Colley implied, its a little easy to be a player at the Villa at the moment no real direction from Lambert an no one really to kick ass, Keane won't do it as I believe its a bit of a part time job for him! The guy sounds washed up to me....nothing coherent or joined up.... reminiscent of the Turner & McNeill era's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Not under pressure, going nowhere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Not under pressure, going nowhere Really? Even as vociferous a supporter of Lambert as you are, you didn't think he sounded like he might be feeling the pressure? Even in the bit where he talked about feeling the pressure? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Not under pressure, going nowhere Whilst I do t doubt that for a minute is there not even potential to change with the next 4 games? Burnley, palace, Leicester, baggies, I'm sat here wanting 10 points and expecting about 2... Thing is people can say why no pressure but is there even pressure from us? I don't think so, bit of voting with feet, bit of grumbling inside VP lots of moaning outside VP but no real anger, I don't even think VP has turned yet, that "Alex you're a clearing in the woods" moment hasn't happened to lambert yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wow he does my head in watching that press conference. Such vague bullshit answers coming out his mouth. Is Pete a Villa fan. Finally someone puttin it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wow he does my head in watching that press conference. Such vague bullshit answers coming out his mouth. Is Pete a Villa fan. Finally someone puttin it to him. Yeah he is. Good to see him grilling him in the interview. Made him look a right #$%. Lambert has no shame. After all the records hes broken... the absolute bullshit football we have had to endure he can sit in a press conference and lie to everyone thinking we will just believe what he says. Didnt he walk from most positions in his career? Why isnt he walking now? Money? Go on Paul. Just go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 28, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted November 28, 2014 Some proper questioning eventually by a journalist,it was Pete Colley putting PL under pressure here... http://tinyurl.com/Lambert-tough-questioning Some interesting responses (paraphrased, and added my own understanding/interpretation. Listen to it yourself and make your own conclusions): Q: "You come from a good background with Norwich. So what is happening at Villa?" PL: "You can't compare the championship with the Premier League" So... past form accounts for little, then. Especially if you are out of your depth - as he continues: PL: "We need to find a way to get out from the bottom and get higher up the table". Good to see he has a plan in place.... C'mon Paul - instill some confidence in us! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) That interview has done him no favors, sounded like a man with no plan, where is the comment it will change and we are turning the corner, he looks defeated and out of his depth,to say Liverpool and Arsenal are only just above us is pathetic, do they look like a relegation fighting team, do they know how to pass and score, do they play shite defensive tripe, we are poles apart and to use them to make us look as if we are not as bad as people think is deluded, This is the worst squad, team and tactics I can remember, I can not remember a time as a fan where we did not go on a Saturday expecting a win or a good game. enough is enough, either change tactics and have a go at teams or get the hell out. Edited November 28, 2014 by VillakevBromsgrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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