Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Firstly, the home form was dire all season. And before the Norwich and Chelsea wins, we'd won something like 2 games out of 14 including being beaten at home by Sheffield United in the cup. People were FAR from satisfied, and even the Chelsea game was seen as something as a blip by some, which was spot on as it turned out. The home form was pretty poor overall last season yes but where did I ever say it wasn't? I didn't say satisfied, I said reasonably content, which most people were. It wasn't that long ago. If there was deeper discontent at that point it certainly wasn't shown, but since when has voicing negativity ever been a problem on here? If there was more widespread discontent people would've made it heard (as is their right) but most didn't. I don't think it's nonsense at all. Fact is after we'd just beaten Chelsea most were reasonably content with how the season had panned out up until that point. As I said, if you actually look at where our defeats came the majority were clustered in December and at the very end of the season. I don't actually think we were anywhere near as bad to watch for the rest of the season as some people like to make out either. I actually think that is quite delusional. 'Most' fans saw the cracks well before then and could also see past the flattering league position as there seemed to be a plethora of bottom-feeders intent on packing the bottom ten positions as tightly as possible. We were in free-fall and if the season had another couple of games in it we may well have been dragged down. The Chelsea result/performance was a welcome freak event. Not delusional at all - just because you don't agree with doesn't automatically make it "delusional". As I said above, I remember the mood on here and it wasn't that bad. If there was widespread discontent then people kept it to themselves but I seriously doubt that's the case. Remember, I'm talking specifically about the position we were in after the Chelsea game where we were 10th with 34 points from 29 games. We weren't in free-fall then - it was after the Chelsea game that we went into free-fall. No we weren't. That's the thing - you can end up with a poor points total without actually being poor for the majority of the season. All it takes is a bit of really awful form. Yes that "bit" being 19 points from 24 games. Anyway, this is starting to enter 'banging head against the wall' territory so we'll have to agree to disagree I guess. More like 11 - those 4 defeats in a row in December and then the 7 defeats from the last 9 games of the season. Edited August 3, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If we finished a season with 44 points that would be considered poor. That's what we'd have if we continued the average of 34 points from 29 games throughout a whole season. So how is that not poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If we finished a season with 44 points that would be considered poor. That's what we'd have if we continued the average of 34 points from 29 games throughout a whole season. So how is that not poor? Depends on the circumstances - last season if we had gotten 44 points we would've finished around 11th/12th which certainly would've been an improvement on the previous season and I think many would've been content with that. Anyway, my whole point was that generally people were reasonably content with the season up until that point - we'd steered clear of the relegation battle and looked like we could finish in the top 10. Unfortunately we were dreadful for the remainder of the season and that's a key reason why we finished where we did with so few points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I'm more worried about this season rather than last we are going to struggle without kozak and Benteke for a long period and our defence is suspect still. I think the confidence of the players may be low by the time they will come back and that's why we will struggle. Look at the form last season when they got injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I thought Kozak was coming back soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I thought Kozak was coming back soon? I'd guess about a month away going by the manager's comments.Lambert added: “In terms of injuries, Libor is doing great. He won’t be fit for the start of the season. Christian won’t be fit either. But they are both ahead of their scheduled time. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-confident-ron-vlaar-3972927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yea but how long before he is up to speed after such a long injury and Benteke will be worse as he will be out for even longer, an even more serious injury ad a much more important player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) The argument that lambert had enough funding to do much better assumes he had a free hand in where the money went and would have had access to the same money spent other ways. Maybe the assumption is correct, but I don't know one way or the other and I doubt many do. Edited August 4, 2014 by srsmithusa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 We needed bodies in for the last 2 seasons really. Could we have bought better with the funds? Maybe. Could we have better utilized there players we actually paid for? Definitely. Some players were wrong, some should've been used better. It's no coincidence our better signings have been the pricier ones though, so it's a question of whether 7 men in to fill a squad was preferable to 3 in and hope for no injuries. The latter route, given the injuries we had, would probably have relegated us, but if it somehow didn't, we'd be healthier now. It's really just been a case of playing the odds I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sums it up pretty well I though once the backlog had been cleared and finances shored up we would spend the same but in fewer players making us much stronger. We know now that he was getting ready to make us solvent and therefore stable. Either way the same thing had to be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I wonder if Lambert would like to have Delph and Ron signed onto new contracts? It's a good thing Lerner can rely on the stupidity of alot of supporters and just keep throwing Lambert out to the wolves. I admire Lambert for the job he has done and have total respect for him for staying here as long as he has. It doesn't strike me as a financial decision either and he genuinely cares about the club and the players imo.The fans are the stupid ones? Get over your "better fan syndrome". I don't think there are many fans that think Lerner has been a poor owner and has left the club on the edge. But that doesn't excuse that as a manager Lambert has not been very good, he has failed to improve HIS players, he has failed to motivate his team, and his tactics on the whole have been terrible. Ok then none of the Villa fans are stupid and I was implying that I'm a better fan than everybody by stating that some Villa fans are short-sighted.... Did Lambert motivate his players when we put that run together at the end of 2012-2013 season to stay up? Did the injuries last year have a major effect on our form? Did he motivate Guzan by dropping Given after 2 games and instilling confidence in him by making him No.1? Has Westwood improved? Has Vlaar improved? Has Delph improved? Plenty of his other players haven't improved and imo this is down to the fact that they aren't capable of improving. This is because we had to shop in a market where the majority of our signings are gambles. You can blame the owner for that and stop expecting the manager to solve everything with one hand tied behind his back! So he managed to motivate the team for about 10 games over 2 seasons? Every player has the ability to improve slightly or at least play as a cohesive unit if they are coached slightly. But some of the players he has have actually got worse under his tutelage. The owner can't be blamed for that, that comes from the manager and his coaching staff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 What worries me about pre-season so far is that we are still making the very same errors tactically and motivationally on the pitch that have blighted Lambert's management for the past two seasons. I don't think he learns from his mistakes and lacks the skills required to rectify them. We can only hope Keane can do something positive for the team but his immediate impact seems to amount to zero. We go into the new season at the moment with the same problems a lightweight midfield and suspect defence and no amount of coaching from Lambert seems to make any difference. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-Copenhagen Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 At least it is hard to see were Lambert has overspend. None of the players he have bought has a negative financial impact on the club - and that is hard not to say about all other recent managers. My guess is that had we kept Benteke and Kozak injury free last year, we would have looked a lot better. The fact is with such limited funds, it is hard to blame Lambert for the lack of depth in the squad. That said I agree that he is not the best tactical manager out there, but a lot or most of his "big" money buys have been great. Vlaar, Benteke, Kozak and Okore all seam like good value for money. Luna, Sylla and Tonev less so, but they only came at a combined fee of 6,5 and at relatively low wages, so they can be moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I wonder if Lambert would like to have Delph and Ron signed onto new contracts? It's a good thing Lerner can rely on the stupidity of alot of supporters and just keep throwing Lambert out to the wolves. I admire Lambert for the job he has done and have total respect for him for staying here as long as he has. It doesn't strike me as a financial decision either and he genuinely cares about the club and the players imo. The fans are the stupid ones? Get over your "better fan syndrome". I don't think there are many fans that think Lerner has been a poor owner and has left the club on the edge. But that doesn't excuse that as a manager Lambert has not been very good, he has failed to improve HIS players, he has failed to motivate his team, and his tactics on the whole have been terrible. Ok then none of the Villa fans are stupid and I was implying that I'm a better fan than everybody by stating that some Villa fans are short-sighted.... Did Lambert motivate his players when we put that run together at the end of 2012-2013 season to stay up? Did the injuries last year have a major effect on our form? Did he motivate Guzan by dropping Given after 2 games and instilling confidence in him by making him No.1? Has Westwood improved? Has Vlaar improved? Has Delph improved? Plenty of his other players haven't improved and imo this is down to the fact that they aren't capable of improving. This is because we had to shop in a market where the majority of our signings are gambles. You can blame the owner for that and stop expecting the manager to solve everything with one hand tied behind his back! So he managed to motivate the team for about 10 games over 2 seasons? So now your contradicting yourself by saying he has motivated the team, I guess your one of those short-sighted fans I referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yea but how long before he is up to speed after such a long injury and Benteke will be worse as he will be out for even longer, an even more serious injury ad a much more important player. Speed? Have you seen Kozak play? I am not worried, his game isn't heavily relying on athleticism, I think he will slot back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I wonder if Lambert would like to have Delph and Ron signed onto new contracts? It's a good thing Lerner can rely on the stupidity of alot of supporters and just keep throwing Lambert out to the wolves. I admire Lambert for the job he has done and have total respect for him for staying here as long as he has. It doesn't strike me as a financial decision either and he genuinely cares about the club and the players imo.The fans are the stupid ones? Get over your "better fan syndrome". I don't think there are many fans that think Lerner has been a poor owner and has left the club on the edge. But that doesn't excuse that as a manager Lambert has not been very good, he has failed to improve HIS players, he has failed to motivate his team, and his tactics on the whole have been terrible.Ok then none of the Villa fans are stupid and I was implying that I'm a better fan than everybody by stating that some Villa fans are short-sighted.... Did Lambert motivate his players when we put that run together at the end of 2012-2013 season to stay up? Did the injuries last year have a major effect on our form? Did he motivate Guzan by dropping Given after 2 games and instilling confidence in him by making him No.1? Has Westwood improved? Has Vlaar improved? Has Delph improved? Plenty of his other players haven't improved and imo this is down to the fact that they aren't capable of improving. This is because we had to shop in a market where the majority of our signings are gambles. You can blame the owner for that and stop expecting the manager to solve everything with one hand tied behind his back! So he managed to motivate the team for about 10 games over 2 seasons? So now your contradicting yourself by saying he has motivated the team, I guess your one of those short-sighted fans I referring to. Hardly a full contradiction when I'm saying he has only motivated his team for 10 games. As for short sighted, I disagree. If over two yrs I had seen a progression of the players, tactics and management I would be happy for lambert to continue as a plan for the future could be seen. However, I've seen the manager continuously make the same type of mistake over and over again and not learn from them. I have seen players digress under his tutelage. Therefore I see no long or short term plan under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 How can anyone not impressed with the last two years be short sighted? Its been 2 years for people to form an opinion based on what they've seen. I can see why some want to have faith in the manager and can see valid reasons as to why he's struggled. But I can't see how its short sighted to disagree with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I wonder if Lambert would like to have Delph and Ron signed onto new contracts? It's a good thing Lerner can rely on the stupidity of alot of supporters and just keep throwing Lambert out to the wolves. I admire Lambert for the job he has done and have total respect for him for staying here as long as he has. It doesn't strike me as a financial decision either and he genuinely cares about the club and the players imo. The fans are the stupid ones? Get over your "better fan syndrome". I don't think there are many fans that think Lerner has been a poor owner and has left the club on the edge. But that doesn't excuse that as a manager Lambert has not been very good, he has failed to improve HIS players, he has failed to motivate his team, and his tactics on the whole have been terrible. Ok then none of the Villa fans are stupid and I was implying that I'm a better fan than everybody by stating that some Villa fans are short-sighted.... Did Lambert motivate his players when we put that run together at the end of 2012-2013 season to stay up? Did the injuries last year have a major effect on our form? Did he motivate Guzan by dropping Given after 2 games and instilling confidence in him by making him No.1? Has Westwood improved? Has Vlaar improved? Has Delph improved? Plenty of his other players haven't improved and imo this is down to the fact that they aren't capable of improving. This is because we had to shop in a market where the majority of our signings are gambles. You can blame the owner for that and stop expecting the manager to solve everything with one hand tied behind his back! So he managed to motivate the team for about 10 games over 2 seasons? So now your contradicting yourself by saying he has motivated the team, I guess your one of those short-sighted fans I referring to. Hardly a full contradiction when I'm saying he has only motivated his team for 10 games. As for short sighted, I disagree. If over two yrs I had seen a progression of the players, tactics and management I would be happy for lambert to continue as a plan for the future could be seen. However, I've seen the manager continuously make the same type of mistake over and over again and not learn from them. I have seen players digress under his tutelage. Therefore I see no long or short term plan under him. Fair enough but I fail to see how any manager would progress under the circumstances and I think it's an achievement in itself that Lambert has kept us in the Premiership these past 2 seasons. If he was allowed to spend the kind of money that teams like West Ham have and we were having seasons like the last 2 then I'd be calling for his head also but he has been keeping us up while offering wages approx 10k - 20k per week, I'd say some of the players were even being offered less than 10k per week. Almost seems like an impossible task imo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) At least it is hard to see were Lambert has overspend. None of the players he have bought has a negative financial impact on the club - and that is hard not to say about all other recent managers. My guess is that had we kept Benteke and Kozak injury free last year, we would have looked a lot better. The fact is with such limited funds, it is hard to blame Lambert for the lack of depth in the squad. That said I agree that he is not the best tactical manager out there, but a lot or most of his "big" money buys have been great. Vlaar, Benteke, Kozak and Okore all seam like good value for money. Luna, Sylla and Tonev less so, but they only came at a combined fee of 6,5 and at relatively low wages, so they can be moved on. So far Kozak and Okore have more games to play before you can deem them as great. Edited August 4, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-Copenhagen Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 At least it is hard to see were Lambert has overspend. None of the players he have bought has a negative financial impact on the club - and that is hard not to say about all other recent managers. My guess is that had we kept Benteke and Kozak injury free last year, we would have looked a lot better. The fact is with such limited funds, it is hard to blame Lambert for the lack of depth in the squad. That said I agree that he is not the best tactical manager out there, but a lot or most of his "big" money buys have been great. Vlaar, Benteke, Kozak and Okore all seam like good value for money. Luna, Sylla and Tonev less so, but they only came at a combined fee of 6,5 and at relatively low wages, so they can be moved on. So far Kozak and Okore have more games to play before you can deem them as great. Not sure. I think they have at the very least kept their value and both are showing a lot of promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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