nazvfc Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 For all this chastising of those who "only care about possession stats", who's actually said this? We have been very poor on the ball at times and do seem to have a tendency to give it away cheaply thus putting us under unnecessary pressure, this is where I would like to see us improve. Villalads post which seems to have instigated this discussion, to me is talking more about the team performance and sitting deep than purely possession stats, hence why he has mentioned the City and Southampton game where he feels we were lucky, and I would be slightly inclined to agree, rather than the Chelsea game where possession was similar but the performance and tactics were much different and the win was perhaps more merited. To me the view some take that "we won therefore the performances are irrelevant" seems too short-sighted, as over the course of the season you would expect the teams performances to be correlated to the results picked up. I remember a few weeks ago, I can't remember who they were playing, Mourinho's Chelsea had won their game but he said he was disappointed in a post-match interview as the teams performance was poor and over the course of the season this would be what determines their future results. Mate think you need to look back in most of the threads - lots of people have been moaning and saying xx% possession is crap and only xx5 against a shit team like A B or C is crap - mainly said by the more vocal neggies (or whatever to call them). Lots of mentions about shit possession (even though we won) using that as a stick to beat Lambert and anyone else. Many fans I sit with don't give a donkey's doodah about possession (we seem to be the 'old farts') because it's what you do with it that matters. If it wins you the game or points then job done. Just saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I've seen the saints game mentioned again and despite low possession we looked like the team who would score, they spent most of the game taping it around the outside of the box. Lambert set us up perfectly for counter attack. Until the injury we were in control of the match and still won anyway. The city game I think is our only 'lucky' game where in the case of west ham we battered them and lost to two dumb goals in as many minutes in a game we were dominating. Really? Actual stats: Possession: Soton 78 % Villa 22 % - Shocking Shots off target: Soton 21 Villa 6 - Again shocking Shots on target: Soton 9 Villa 3 How is this not lucky? Tell me? Stats don't lie. That being said i'm really happy with the recent performances. The lads have been exellent! But that doesn't mean we can't still be critical, games like the saints victory (even tho we won) was a shocking performance. Edited March 18, 2014 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Where are those stats from please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I like this scout for players within our price range, but then when he turns up, our fans wouldn't have the patience to give him time anyway, he'd be thrown on the scrap heap along with Luna, Tonev and Helenius. I agree a creative player or two is needed but they need to be the quality versions that make the difference between whether your side draw a game or win it. I think our fans generally have shown patience with the majority of Lambert's signings. The only one rashly written off by a large proportion of people has been Tonev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Goals: Soton 2 Villa 3 Shocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Shots on target: Soton 9 Villa 3 How is this not lucky? Tell me? The word you're looking for is "clinical." What Villa are very good at, and it's showed vs. Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea also (not just the Southampton game in isolation) is that in these low possession, counter-attacking games we are excellent at making possession count when we have it. By the way, I am sick of hearing how "lucky" we were vs. City, how "flukey" that win was. The only lucky thing that happened in that game is that KEA wasn't called for offside. They created better chances but they failed to capitalize. We hung in there, waited for our chances, and when they came our way we took them. We won that game because we never stopped fighting. Stats don't lie. They don't tell the whole truth, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted March 18, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2014 I've seen the saints game mentioned again and despite low possession we looked like the team who would score, they spent most of the game taping it around the outside of the box. Lambert set us up perfectly for counter attack. Until the injury we were in control of the match and still won anyway. The city game I think is our only 'lucky' game where in the case of west ham we battered them and lost to two dumb goals in as many minutes in a game we were dominating. Really? Actual stats: Possession: Soton 78 % Villa 22 % - Shocking Shots off target: Soton 21 Villa 6 - Again shocking Shots on target: Soton 9 Villa 3 How is this not lucky? Tell me? Stats don't lie. That being said i'm really happy with the recent performances. The lads have been exellent! But that doesn't mean we can't still be critical, games like the saints victory (even tho we won) was a shocking performance. Total shots 21 of which half were inside the box and 9 (inside and outside) of which were on target. I went to the game and can only remember one chance other than the goal being close to going in when we had another two very close chances. So stats in this case mean sweet f.a. Other than getting iritated with the fact that we couldnt retain the ball from a throw in, I thought we were very much in control of the first half and okayish in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Where are those stats from please. They are correct.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25115885 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I've seen the saints game mentioned again and despite low possession we looked like the team who would score, they spent most of the game taping it around the outside of the box. Lambert set us up perfectly for counter attack. Until the injury we were in control of the match and still won anyway. The city game I think is our only 'lucky' game where in the case of west ham we battered them and lost to two dumb goals in as many minutes in a game we were dominating. Really? Actual stats: Possession: Soton 78 % Villa 22 % - Shocking Shots off target: Soton 21 Villa 6 - Again shocking Shots on target: Soton 9 Villa 3 How is this not lucky? Tell me? Stats don't lie. That being said i'm really happy with the recent performances. The lads have been exellent! But that doesn't mean we can't still be critical, games like the saints victory (even tho we won) was a shocking performance. I absolutely hated us winning though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yeah we've heard that one already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted March 18, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Where are those stats from please. They are correct.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25115885 Nope, He has quoted stats and then quoted them incorrectly. Off Target != Total Shots, although I understand the point he was making even if I think its incorrect. Edited March 18, 2014 by andyjsg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Yeah we've heard that one already. Is it not a valid point though? Are silly little stats really more important than winning? Edited March 18, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Stats don't lie. They don't tell the whole truth, either. Exactly. The same set of stats can be used to present two sides of an argument. Soton 78% Villa 22% possession. Southampton battered Villa.. Villa played the perfect counter attacking game. Which is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Jesus. This thread. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The Man City game was a bit of a fluke result. We were just better than Chelsea on Saturday. What was flukey about it? They had 7 shots on target granted they had possession and we won without playing anywhere near how we can or did against Chelsea but we defended resolutely and they couldn't break us down and when they did we kept coming back. It says a lot about the spirit in the players! They should have won that it wasn't like the Southampton game when we suffocated them they had some quality chances and one of ours goals was clearly offside. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy that result, just that the Chelsea game was deserved without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yeah we've heard that one already. Is it not a valid point though? Are silly little stats really more important than winning? Why are the stats silly? Of course the win is ultimately more important after the event but that isn't what is being discussed, I think he has a point in what he's saying. If those were the story of every game of the season we'd easily be relegated, in my opinion. Although hardly an unbiased opinion, Pochettino said after the game - "It's the type of game you lose maybe once in 1,000, but tonight we lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think it's the fact that he's calling it a 'shocking performance'. Absolutely win could ever be a shocking performance. For me, it looks like he's disregarding the win to have a pop. Which is, frankly, really odd. He goes as far to say that: What annoys me this season is games like Everton away and also that lucky City win a home. A win against the probable favourites for the league ANNOYED him. Really bizarre chain of posts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Bickering about stats aside (you don't get any extra points for playing well and winning than you do from scraping a win, which we should remember, and there's no point arguing about a match that was months ago), I think Lambert will need to show his hand for next season if we can beat Stoke. If we manage that, we're as good as safe, so it'll be time to start getting us playing the system and style he's thinking of for next season - if it'll be a different one. It doesn't matter that we might be missing some players that he'll bring in during the summer, but the other guys should really be given the opportunity of as many competitive games as possible to start making any necessary changes to how we approach games. So far as I'm concerned, as soon as we're safe, next season's preparation begins on the pitch. Until we're safe, I don't care how we play so long as we can keep picking up points along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This bloody stats argument again, here's the only important stats; 10th - Aston Villa - 34pts - -6GD Couldn't give a shit about anything else really, our GD is much better than pretty much everyone around us despite being shit and we're currently in a fairly healthy mid table position. Plus position, points, goals for/against and GD are all better than this point last season, improvement, no matter how slight. If possession counted towards our standing in the table, then I'd be bothered about it, but it doesn't, so why care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The Man City game was a bit of a fluke result. We were just better than Chelsea on Saturday. What was flukey about it? They had 7 shots on target granted they had possession and we won without playing anywhere near how we can or did against Chelsea but we defended resolutely and they couldn't break us down and when they did we kept coming back. It says a lot about the spirit in the players! They should have won that it wasn't like the Southampton game when we suffocated them they had some quality chances and one of ours goals was clearly offside. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy that result, just that the Chelsea game was deserved without a doubt. How about when United "battered " us towards the end of last season scoring 3 (THREE) off side goals? How about Chelsea early on this season where we ran out undeserved losers? Or Suarez diving at Anfield a few weeks back to snatch two points away? We can and have and probably will again go round and around in circles with this conversation, ultimately it's pointless. The history books will record the only stat that really matters, the score. As for that particular game, I thought we outfought Man City. The chances they did have were squandered by players on the pitch, the team we were facing at the time, or saved by one of our very own. It was a fair result. We're doing ok this term regardless of whatever stat you can muster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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