maqroll Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 What myself and others are extrapolating from the article is a general tone of authoritarianism in the wording of the statement, regardless of the validity of their rules. I was wrong in saying that they aren't in a position to make demands of supporters club members, but they manner in which they have looks clumsy, and it's just bad PR at a time when the club needs all the good PR it can get. But I stand by my "Laying down the law" comment, because that's how it comes across (to some of us). And again, I read the article. But feel free to not believe me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 What myself and others are extrapolating from the article is a general tone of authoritarianism in the wording of the statement, regardless of the validity of their rules. I was wrong in saying that they aren't in a position to make demands of supporters club members, but they manner in which they have looks clumsy, and it's just bad PR at a time when the club needs all the good PR it can get. But I stand by my "Laying down the law" comment, because that's how it comes across (to some of us). And again, I read the article. But feel free to not believe me! I think the article has influenced how we envision these terms to have been issued. It paints a mental image of them being played over a Tannoy system whilst all the Lion's chairmen are lined up in wait. In reality it was developed with fellow chairmen, who seemed to have no issue with it and is hardly asking anything outrageous and was probably sent via email. Ever read a rental car agreement? Reads like you're signing up for National Service, but T&C's are non emotive documents designed to send a clear message so that all parties are on the same page. Hamfisted? Perhaps... but to use words like "disgusting" as per the response quoted in the article is simply over-dramatised nonsense. If you want to chair an official Lion's club, here are the T&C's. If not, then by all means have an unofficial supporters club. No biggy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post briny_ear Posted August 4, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) C V Byrne. You are so energetic in defending these rules that I begin to suspect you had a hand in drafting them! The more interesting story possibly lurking here is about abuse and harassment of club officials - the Supporters Club Coordinator officer in partic. I wonder if this is a reaction to the fact that abuse and harassment has actually been happening? If not, why so much emphasis on abuse and harassment? I also agree with those who say the rules are patronising. And the timing of their introduction could hardly be worse, with the club in a real crisis about its future ownership and ability to compete with other premier league this coming season. Edited August 4, 2014 by briny_ear 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 It's Lamberts fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The fuss over this is absolutely ridiculous. It is perfectly reasonable for any organisation to ask those who wish to affiliate themselves with said organisation to behave in a certain way. You wouldn't join a golf club and then act surprised when the other members have a problem with you screaming "word removed" at people of the 5th tee. Its the same thing. The club aren't saying "you can't criticise us" - but they are asking people who want to associate themselves formally with the club not to do it publically and certainly not to do it in an abusive manner. I've seen such hilarious reaction like "its curtailing the fans freedom of speech" - well, no, it isn't. YOU CHOOSE to affiliate yourself officially with the club, their brand, their company, their rules. Don't like it? Don't affiliate. This whole situation smacks of a group of people pissed off that the club whose association benefits their supporters club or supporter trust (and how they can moan at all having seen the attitude of the knob that posted on here after their "super secret" EGM meeting, is beyond me) ask them not to act like dicks on twitter. Its extraordinairily simple for me. Here's the rules. Get on with it, or lose the "official" status. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) The fuss over this is absolutely ridiculous. It is perfectly reasonable for any organisation to ask those who wish to affiliate themselves with said organisation to behave in a certain way. Yes it is. It's how they say it, and why they say it that's important though. I mean, you could get some smackhead taking a dump in the M&S changing rooms, and then stealing a suit for a court appearance. You wouldn't expect M&S to then write to all of their customers thus: "M&S customers SHALL NOT crimp off a length in the Alderley Edge chnaging rooms" "M&S customers SHALL not steal items from the shirt and tie department". You would expect all supporters' club chairmen to follow the rules set out in the communication from the club, but it was badly written, heavy handed, and didn't leave the volunteers doing something for the club feeling valued. At a time when all supporters have had to put up with rubbish football, and rubbish results, you'd think that a charm offensive might have been more beneficial. If one or two individuals had caused problems, they should have been dealt with individually. A lot of fuss about mostly nothing, but just another example of the poor PR from the club, at a time when it needs all the positive support it can get. Edited August 4, 2014 by Risso 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The fuss over this is absolutely ridiculous. It is perfectly reasonable for any organisation to ask those who wish to affiliate themselves with said organisation to behave in a certain way. Yes it is. It's how they say it, and why they say it that's important though. I mean, you could get some smackhead taking a dump in the M&S changing rooms, and then stealing a suit for a court appearance. You wouldn't expect M&S to then write to all of their customers thus: "M&S customers SHALL NOT crimp off a length in the Alderley Edge chnaging rooms" "M&S customers SHALL not steal items from the shirt and tie department". You would expect all supporters' club chairmen to follow the rules set out in the communication from the club, but it was badly written, heavy handed, and didn't leave the volunteers doing something for the club feeling valued. At a time when all supporters have had to put up with rubbish football, and rubbish results, you'd think that a charm offensive might have been more beneficial. If one or two individuals had caused problems, they should have been dealt with individually. A lot of fuss about mostly nothing, but just another example of the poor PR from the club, at a time when it needs all the positive support it can get. Does it not have to be worded in terms of absolutes though? Anything less implies its open to interpretation and therefore arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Its extraordinairily simple for me. Here's the rules. Get on with it, or lose the "official" status. now put that in the context that there were several discussions last season amongst some of the biggest and most active lions clubs as to whether or not they actually need the "official" status anymore and you might see why this is being considered a bit of a **** up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker1234 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Aston Villa Lions Clubs: Setting the record straight In the wake of reports about the Aston Villa Lions Clubs' code of conduct, we feel compelled to put the record straight. The Club enjoys a fantastic relationship with our network of Lions Clubs worldwide. Out of 20 points contained within the code of conduct, 17 of these have comprised the terms and conditions for Lions Clubs for several years. The three additional points were prompted by comments from various Lions Clubs and have been implemented after being approved by a steering group comprising of six Lions Club chairmen selected at random and representative of the group overall. These have been introduced to eliminate actions such as illegal ticketing and the online abuse of individuals. In representing Lions Clubs, chairpersons are discouraged from being abusive, which is right and proper and standard practise. Russell Jones, Villa's head of marketing and communications, said: "There have been suggestions that we have forced the code of conduct on Lions Clubs to prevent criticism of Aston Villa. "That's not true. Constructive criticism is always welcome and debate around team selection, tactics and players is what makes being a football fan special. "However, while voluntary, being a Lions Club chairman is a responsible and ambassadorial role. "In keeping with our values as a family club, both the Club and the steering group agreed that we shouldn't tolerate abuse of individuals - either chairmen of other Lions Clubs or members of staff. "For clarity, abuse is defined as targeted bullying with the intention to cause distress. "This isn't about the club dictating it is quite the opposite. Collectively we want to make the Lions network a great experience for all clubs and supporters. "The most pertinent fact which appears to have got lost is that the vast majority of Lions Clubs have signed up and we look forward to working with them on an ongoing basis." http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4054475,00.html Edited August 5, 2014 by Cracker1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The next "statement" from Villa will be to introduce joe kinnear as director of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) So doesn't this effectively confirm there has been online abuse? Presumably of "chairmen of other Lions Clubs" and "members of staff." Anyone got any more info on this? Would love to know how the club dealt with it. Edited August 5, 2014 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It's bad PR because a newspaper decided to spin it that way. Whilst that's true, that's exactly how PR works. They should have foreseen something like this. I don't think it's a stretch to say that this only serves to highlight how poor public relations are from the club generally... But then is this news to some? They're on their way out, whether it be a week, a month or a year away. I see no great need to get het up anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Fair play to the lions club for settling the boat there by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 8 clubs have refused to sign it and are walking away, including pheasey, Sutton Coldfield and North Walsall which are 3 big lions clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 8 clubs have refused to sign it and are walking away, including pheasey, Sutton Coldfield and North Walsall which are 3 big lions clubs 8 clubs insisting it their right to abuse people online! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 8 clubs have refused to sign it and are walking away, including pheasey, Sutton Coldfield and North Walsall which are 3 big lions clubs 8 clubs insisting it their right to abuse people online! It is though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 No, as I keep saying 8 clubs that saw this as the straw that breaks the camels back, trouble has been brewing for a while I know North Walsall would probably argue that the biggest appeal of the lions to them is away games and the club isn't and to my knowledge pretty much never has been interested in away games, other than keeping us out of trouble, because they don't make money off them, so they've probably looked it at and decided they don't need the "official" tag in order to function Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 What part of it don't the 8!! Lions clubs like? It seems to me that they're moaning more about the state of the club than the actual document. Even after the club stating criticism is allowed yet not abuse the clubs have still moaned. Wasn't it put together by other Lions Club members? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Whatever the case is, the lions clubs and its members will always be around whereas the tick box non entities who drafted this PR omnishambles will go along with Lerner and the rest of the dream team. We hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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