Risso Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Probably people with as little talent for the job for whoever does the PR at Villa. Why give people the opportunity to snipe by coming up with such a petty and insulting set of rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I love ignorance breeding hysteria. I'll enjoy this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Good ol' Birmingham Mail shit stirring again. Yep, shoot the messenger. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I love ignorance breeding hysteria. I'll enjoy this thread. Its hardly hysteria, just another example of how poorly most areas of the club are run at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I love ignorance breeding hysteria. I'll enjoy this thread. If you ever get the point why people are getting upset you may learn as well as enjoy the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarrieBlue Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'm confused. The club has asked the supporters club chairmen to agree not to abuse officials of the club on social media. What's wrong with that. It doesn't say they can't criticise it just don't resort to abuse. Surely we gave lions club chairmen who are capable of making a point without resorting to abuse. If they can't they're not fit for office. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theboyangel Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 probably get shot down here - but this appears to be a mountain made out of a molehill the way I've read it, it appeared to me that the supporters groups were involved in the process behind the rules being drawn up. I think the word 'abuse' has been mistaken (or twisted) to mean 'criticism' when they're two completely seperate meanings and to be honest, regardless of personal thoughts, if you're the chairman of a supporters group for the club, would it be right to slate/criticise/abuse the club on 'supporter group' social media? Saying all of that, it has been poorly worded by AVFC and has the air of a 10 commandments style doctrine. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CVByrne Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Given 6 chairmen of Lions Clubs all were involved in coming up with the rules and they signed off on the draft. Which means they agreed it was essentially there to say abusive behaviour, as in concentrated attack on club personnel by a chairman on their private page is not acceptable. They specifically mention the treatment of the Supporters club coordinator so I imagine he's had abusive treatment at some point. I think the draft is right, it's essentially scum to make abusive comments about somebody doing their job. Especially if you are a leader of a supporters club. I hope the club acts if such people do go posting abuse, nasty stuff about someone. Treat people with respect. Criticism and abuse are very different. There can't be abuse on VT as moderation won't allow it. So understand the difference. Edited August 3, 2014 by CVByrne 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It does look like a bit of a storm in a teacup given that most chairmen seem to have signed up. Two or three stroppy buggers who weren't paying enough attention to the consultation process? However it seems a bit odd to me that Lions' Clubs have to sign up to such a massive tome with pages and pages of rules and regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Massive tome with pages and pages!! Please just read the article. 20 point edict is now a massive tome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveburnside Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It'll be interesting to see what the club does when there is the inevitable criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maqroll Posted August 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2014 It's just a really dumb PR blunder by the club. Laying down the law to supporters groups at a time when the club should be happy that they even have any supporters left is just poor timing. They are in no position to be making any demands of supporters at all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Been coming for a while, there'll be people on here who know far more than me about it but the club has made several cut backs over the last couple of years, most of the lions clubs were unhappy anyway, they've reduced pretty much every single benefit This is just the latest incident, everyone was unhappy with it anyway, there was talks of breaking away all of last year The thing they won't want to talk about but I think if we we're all being honest is one of the main benefits on the lions clubs is away games tickets, not saying my club does it or advocates it, but there are ways and means for helping other members with no away game history to get away tickets, the club is really clamping down on it I'm sure the lions clubs were set up with the idea of getting more people through the gates at VP, the reality is other than getting to use the bar out the back of the addies it has absolutely no impact on me in terms of home games, it's all about the away games, and I'd guess that a fair few of the local clubs are the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It's just a really dumb PR blunder by the club. Laying down the law to supporters groups at a time when the club should be happy that they even have any supporters left is just poor timing. They are in no position to be making any demands of supporters at all. Please has anyone actually read any of the article? You see this is the problem with society, nobody is ever bothered to read anything bar the headlines. So whatever a news outlet wants to be the theme all they have to do is splash it across the headline, knowing people are to stupid and lazy to read the article. The supporters groups were involved in the whole thing, no less than 6 of them and they signed off on the draft without as much as a peep of issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Please has anyone actually read any of the article? You see this is the problem with society, nobody is ever bothered to read anything bar the headlines. So whatever a news outlet wants to be the theme all they have to do is splash it across the headline, knowing people are to stupid and lazy to read the article. The supporters groups were involved in the whole thing, no less than 6 of them and they signed off on the draft without as much as a peep of issue. I think the main thing people on here seem to be disagreeing about is the definition of 'abuse', which Risso brought up on the very first page. CVB, you seem to think it's clear because of the fact that six of the chairmen already signed off on it that in this instance 'abuse' has a very specific definition. Well, it could be argued both ways as there are a number of chairmen who aren't going to sign it and you'd think they would have found out the specific meaning of the term 'abuse' in the context of the point. I see what you're saying though, the six chairmen were there and helped draft the thing so you'd think they wouldn't help to create an edict that wasn't so dictatorial. It's poorly worded. The word abuse can have a plethora of meanings, so if you are right in your assumption CVB then they should should have reflected that better. If, on the other hand, they do intend a broader definition of 'abuse' then it is very poor form and the chairmen who are upset by it will be justified. Edited August 3, 2014 by Ginko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'm with Mr Byrne here. Is be surprised if this were not standard across all supporters clubs. The chairman are not your usual "supporter", they choose instead to lead. Being a leader requires discipline, simple as that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 6 people representing 200? it is a mountain out of a molehill but like i said a lot of chairmen are unhappy with the club anyway the rules in full - 1. You will always be courteous, polite and respectful when dealing with anyone associated in anyway with Aston Villa FC (other supporters, Lions Club members, fellow Lions Club Chairmen/Chairwomen and all Club employees). 2. You will always be courteous, polite and respectful when dealing with third parties on behalf of your Lions Club i.e. when booking transport, venues, accommodation, etc. 3. The Chairperson shall comply fully with the Data Protection Act 1998 including, without limitation, the use of data of members of the Supporters' Club and their client reference numbers; This data and reference numbers must only be used for the persons to whom they relate. 4. The Chairperson SHALL NOT, in any capacity whatsoever, sell or distribute tickets to the Club's home or away games to the general public or to any person other than the member of the Supporters Club who the tickets were originally purchased for. These tickets MUST NOT, under any circumstances,, be advertised for sale on any form of social media. 5. With the exception of when you are buying official merchandise from the Club shop or official online store (ie the Club merchandising department), the Chairperson SHALL NOT sell any merchandise to any members of the Supporters Club nor to the general public which includes the official Aston Villa Club logo nor the logo of any official Club Partner and furthermore shall not attach any other logo or device to such merchandise. The Club badge/logo MUST NOT be altered or edited in anyway nor should it be added to your own Lions Club merchandise. 6. The chairperson shall NOT seek personal gain from the sale of merchandise and tickets. 7. You will not partake in any abusive conversations towards anyone associated with the Club in any public forum, whether this is on a page that is personal to you and bears your name OR on a page that bears the name of your Lions Club (including social media, Facebook, Twitter, etc). 8. Whilst attending away games, you will comply with all rules and regulations set by the away Club and treat everyone with respect and courtesy, and without harassment. 9. Whilst attending away games, you will comply with all rules and regulations set out by the Football Liaison Officer and his team and treat them and anyone associated with them with respect and courtesy, and without harassment. 10. You will not steal or falsify any Lions Club documentation for personal gain. 11. Whilst representing your Lions Club, you will not use any form of inappropriate or discriminatory language (sexist, racial or any other discriminatory or disparaging comments). 12. Whilst representing your Lions Club, you will not partake in any violent activity or behave in an aggressive manner towards any other person(s). 13. The Lions Club should be run as a non- profit making organization. ANY profit made should be used for the benefit of the branch and its members. 14. The Chairperson MUST keep in regular contact with the Supporters Club Coordinator and must treat him with respect and courtesy, and without harassment at all times. 15. Any Branch not corresponding with the Football Club will be notified in writing and if non responsive to three attempts of contact the Branch will be removed from the website and assumed vacant. 16. The fact that Supporters' Clubs play a huge part in the perception of Aston Villa at home and abroad means that the Chairperson shall at all times use best endeavors to ensure that all members of the Supporters Group behave reasonably, appropriately and lawfully when attending any football match or function/event which they may attend to support or represent Aston Villa. 17. When attending Lions Club Chairman’s meetings, you will respect the opinion and views of all other attendees and treat them respectfully at all times. 18. Above all, you will work hard to grow the fan base in your geographic area and behave in a way that upholds the values, integrity and good reputation of Aston Villa Football Club. 19. In the case any Chairman is deemed out of line, the Steering Group will recommend any action to be taken against that individual. The Steering Group will review the offence and vote as to whether the offender is given a warning about their conduct or asked to step down. The decision by the Steering Group will then be forwarded to the Clubs Liaison Officer for Aston Villa Football Club to approve the decision. 20. In the event that a Chairman is asked to step down the Football Club reserve the right to advertise that Branch has “vacant possession” and seek new Chairmanship the majority of them are somewhere between common sense and the club treating the chairmen like a child, not sure how much of it is actually needed or if it undermines their position , put your name on a piece of paper that says don't act like a dickhead or you'll be removed from your position, who then defines acting like a dickhead? number 4 is the one that causes me the most problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'm with Mr Byrne here. Is be surprised if this were not standard across all supporters clubs. The chairman are not your usual "supporter", they choose instead to lead. Being a leader requires discipline, simple as that. Exactly, if the club are offering all these incentives to the chairmen http://www.avfclionsclubs.co.uk/member-benefits Why on earth should they tolerate abuse of club staff? Criticism is fine, but abuse is abuse. Using my earlier example abuse means something you cannot post on VT as it's against the rules and will be moderated. So why should the club give benefits to a person who will post abuse about club staff on their own site or on their twitter account. I mean seriously!! I can totally understand why the 6 Lions club chairmen drafted up these 20 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'm sure there's a reason for all of the rules, but they strike me as needlessly aggressive and insulting, eg "You will not steal or falsify any Lions Club documentation for personal gain." Was that necessary, really? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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