Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[R.I.C.O.]

Quite simply Lambert has proven that he is not up the job that faces AVFC. Last year was a major embarrassment at times, this year we have followed on with similar woeful performances.

 

All I have heard of for the past few days is some pretty weak arguments trying to deflect any sort of scrutiny from Lambert and certainly not attributing any blame. We have the ridiculous situation on VT where fans so desperate for some sort of recognition that they hang off the quite sad words of someone basically playing them along with his so called link to Lambert. The reality is that certain elements need Lambert to continue with their job, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours etc

 

Re Lambert's performances we all know that the circumstances surrounding the club are tough, you can (and I do) argue that Lerner has gone too far but them's the rules that we play under at the moment and if you can't or wont play under them then the time is to move on.

 

I suspect that most of the people on VT are Villa fans (and the word most is a key one), and none of us like to see the club struggling. I have had the misfortune of seeing us drop into the third decision, seen a European cup winning side basically ripped apart and seen the club on it's proverbial knees. None of which is pleasurable. What the club is facing now is enormously tough and to get through that you need leadership and vision from the top and certainly from the management team. We all know the Randy situation is one that will not get a quick fix but the topic for this thread is the managerial one. I keep seeing graphs and charts and similar things as some sort of justification for the poor performance that Lambert and his coaching team have put in to date. The only real facts we should consider are things like record defeats, losing to 4 th division sides, coaching staff swearing at the fans, record runs for lack of clean sheets etc etc.

 

As said also all I ever seem to hear is - "Give Lambert some money and watch him then", but again surely all that is saying is that he is a cheque book manager? I wanted Lambert to do well, I wanted him at the club, but I was wrong. He reminds me so much of the many so called leading managers that were going to be the next best thing, the Paul Jewell's, Owen Coyle's, Burley etc etc.

 

It's a real shame because at the moment he is bigger than the club in many fans eyes. Look at the arguments and division his woeful performances cause. There is little real vision and football can be a cruel game and be very unforgiving on the weak.

 

If by some miracle he does turn things around then brilliant, because it will mean that the most important thing, AVFC, are doing well. I am truely not convinced that Paul Lambert and those he has brought in to help him are the answer to the problems we face

 

Great post, couldnt have put it better myself, although I've only seen Villa relegated once. Worryingly, there are parts of the last two seasons that reminds me a bit of that season. I can't see Lambert turning it around myself, we have a tough run of games coming up after Sunderland that we may well get absolutely nothing out of. He'll be sacked, but then it will be too late.

[P3te]

While he had the remit of change DK was he forced into doing it so quickly or could it have been more gradual. Giving Bent the captaincy would suggest the latter but the real question should be has he improved our squad and one would have to say looking at the standard of football played and present points trend the answer would have to be no.

That may change though if he brings the right signings in when the window opens and I am prepared to give him that time to turn us around. That's why it's probably the most important transfer window coming up in Lambert's tenure and if backed by Lerner he must get it right this time with no more shocking purchases.

Good grief.....again with this nonsense. That's not at all the real question AT ALL

Only in your fantasy world would you expect someone going from a £70m a year to a £35m a year wage bill to "improve" the squad!

We are in a cost-cutting operation - the real question is are we getting better value for the amount of resource employed and CLEARLY we are - Lambert earnt more points and better position than McL whilst utilising resource that cost and earnt massively less - so by any standard that is better

Is that the best that any manager could do? Possibly not - Rodgers or Moyes for example might do better. Is that better than any other manager that Villa could attract could do? probably yes

You have totally mis-understood the nature of the task facing us

The wages bill for 31 May 2011 was £83m, to 31 May 2012 was £70m. I'd be absolutely astonished if the May 2013 accounts that are due out in a couple of months show that it's dropped to £35m.

If the wages aren't below 40m in the new books then the club has done serious questions to answer about the wages of non paying staff, because there's absolutely no way were paying that squad more than 25m Edited December 30, 2013 by P3te

[TRO]

Quite simply Lambert has proven that he is not up the job that faces AVFC. Last year was a major embarrassment at times, this year we have followed on with similar woeful performances.

 

All I have heard of for the past few days is some pretty weak arguments trying to deflect any sort of scrutiny from Lambert and certainly not attributing any blame. We have the ridiculous situation on VT where fans so desperate for some sort of recognition that they hang off the quite sad words of someone basically playing them along with his so called link to Lambert. The reality is that certain elements need Lambert to continue with their job, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours etc

 

Re Lambert's performances we all know that the circumstances surrounding the club are tough, you can (and I do) argue that Lerner has gone too far but them's the rules that we play under at the moment and if you can't or wont play under them then the time is to move on.

 

I suspect that most of the people on VT are Villa fans (and the word most is a key one), and none of us like to see the club struggling. I have had the misfortune of seeing us drop into the third decision, seen a European cup winning side basically ripped apart and seen the club on it's proverbial knees. None of which is pleasurable. What the club is facing now is enormously tough and to get through that you need leadership and vision from the top and certainly from the management team. We all know the Randy situation is one that will not get a quick fix but the topic for this thread is the managerial one. I keep seeing graphs and charts and similar things as some sort of justification for the poor performance that Lambert and his coaching team have put in to date. The only real facts we should consider are things like record defeats, losing to 4 th division sides, coaching staff swearing at the fans, record runs for lack of clean sheets etc etc.

 

As said also all I ever seem to hear is - "Give Lambert some money and watch him then", but again surely all that is saying is that he is a cheque book manager? I wanted Lambert to do well, I wanted him at the club, but I was wrong. He reminds me so much of the many so called leading managers that were going to be the next best thing, the Paul Jewell's, Owen Coyle's, Burley etc etc.

 

It's a real shame because at the moment he is bigger than the club in many fans eyes. Look at the arguments and division his woeful performances cause. There is little real vision and football can be a cruel game and be very unforgiving on the weak.

 

If by some miracle he does turn things around then brilliant, because it will mean that the most important thing, AVFC, are doing well. I am truely not convinced that Paul Lambert and those he has brought in to help him are the answer to the problems we face

 

 

Great post Ian. As someone that has backed Lambert heavily from the moment he arrived right up till very recently I wish I could put up an argument. Being honest though aside from saying I have a little bit of blind faith left in Lambert and a real fear of who Lerner would replace him with, I have little else to stump up.

I hate sitting on the fence....but I think that's where I am...the fors and againsts have feasible arguments we need to see how he deals with January.

[Electric Avenue]

Lambert needs to pull some rabbits out of hats in Jan just looking at the fixtures. December was the month to consolidate mid table and they blew it in spectacular fashion.

[AstonMartin82]

 Just a better manager with a system, and a knowledge of how to get the best out of players.

 

 Lets take Barry Bannan, looked distinctly average at VP, goes to Palace, struggles under Golom, Pulis comes in, a long ball manager, and plays Bannan in a free role, and he looks a much better player for it.PL has come in, and most players have not stepped up from last season.Not one player is playing better than towards the end of last season.Why is that?

 

LMAO.

 

You haven't seen Bannan play at all. He is still as bad as he has ever been. Check out his stats and ratings. Poor to say the least.

[Villarocker]

Lambert needs to pull some rabbits out of hats in Jan just looking at the fixtures. December was the month to consolidate mid table and they blew it in spectacular fashion.

They did blow their chance. February has to be a good month for us because March is a bastard.

[HeyAnty]

Reminds me how people critique his post-match talks by praising the players even when we lose. Duh, doing the opposite would destroy their fragile confidence. What does anyone honestly expect him to say?

I agree to an extent, but when he says these comments every week they become meaningless which they now are to me. I don't expect him to be critical of the players in public but in the same hand he shouldn't comment on their performances every week.

[HeyAnty]

Quite simply Lambert has proven that he is not up the job that faces AVFC. Last year was a major embarrassment at times, this year we have followed on with similar woeful performances.

All I have heard of for the past few days is some pretty weak arguments trying to deflect any sort of scrutiny from Lambert and certainly not attributing any blame. We have the ridiculous situation on VT where fans so desperate for some sort of recognition that they hang off the quite sad words of someone basically playing them along with his so called link to Lambert. The reality is that certain elements need Lambert to continue with their job, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours etc

Re Lambert's performances we all know that the circumstances surrounding the club are tough, you can (and I do) argue that Lerner has gone too far but them's the rules that we play under at the moment and if you can't or wont play under them then the time is to move on.

I suspect that most of the people on VT are Villa fans (and the word most is a key one), and none of us like to see the club struggling. I have had the misfortune of seeing us drop into the third decision, seen a European cup winning side basically ripped apart and seen the club on it's proverbial knees. None of which is pleasurable. What the club is facing now is enormously tough and to get through that you need leadership and vision from the top and certainly from the management team. We all know the Randy situation is one that will not get a quick fix but the topic for this thread is the managerial one. I keep seeing graphs and charts and similar things as some sort of justification for the poor performance that Lambert and his coaching team have put in to date. The only real facts we should consider are things like record defeats, losing to 4 th division sides, coaching staff swearing at the fans, record runs for lack of clean sheets etc etc.

As said also all I ever seem to hear is - "Give Lambert some money and watch him then", but again surely all that is saying is that he is a cheque book manager? I wanted Lambert to do well, I wanted him at the club, but I was wrong. He reminds me so much of the many so called leading managers that were going to be the next best thing, the Paul Jewell's, Owen Coyle's, Burley etc etc.

It's a real shame because at the moment he is bigger than the club in many fans eyes. Look at the arguments and division his woeful performances cause. There is little real vision and football can be a cruel game and be very unforgiving on the weak.

If by some miracle he does turn things around then brilliant, because it will mean that the most important thing, AVFC, are doing well. I am truely not convinced that Paul Lambert and those he has brought in to help him are the answer to the problems we face

Great post, couldnt have put it better myself, although I've only seen Villa relegated once. Worryingly, there are parts of the last two seasons that reminds me a bit of that season. I can't see Lambert turning it around myself, we have a tough run of games coming up after Sunderland that we may well get absolutely nothing out of. He'll be sacked, but then it will be too late.

Name me a good premiership manager who doesn't or hasn't reach for the check book and then we can compare them to Lambert?

[Electric Avenue]

While he had the remit of change DK was he forced into doing it so quickly or could it have been more gradual. Giving Bent the captaincy would suggest the latter but the real question should be has he improved our squad and one would have to say looking at the standard of football played and present points trend the answer would have to be no.

That may change though if he brings the right signings in when the window opens and I am prepared to give him that time to turn us around. That's why it's probably the most important transfer window coming up in Lambert's tenure and if backed by Lerner he must get it right this time with no more shocking purchases.

Good grief.....again with this nonsense. That's not at all the real question AT ALL

Only in your fantasy world would you expect someone going from a £70m a year to a £35m a year wage bill to "improve" the squad!

We are in a cost-cutting operation - the real question is are we getting better value for the amount of resource employed and CLEARLY we are - Lambert earnt more points and better position than McL whilst utilising resource that cost and earnt massively less - so by any standard that is better

Is that the best that any manager could do? Possibly not - Rodgers or Moyes for example might do better. Is that better than any other manager that Villa could attract could do? probably yes

You have totally mis-understood the nature of the task facing us

The wages bill for 31 May 2011 was £83m, to 31 May 2012 was £70m. I'd be absolutely astonished if the May 2013 accounts that are due out in a couple of months show that it's dropped to £35m.

If the wages aren't below 40m in the new books then the club has done serious questions to answer about the wages of non paying staff, because there's absolutely no way were paying that squad more than 25m

Good point. I know at one point we had about 550 people on the payroll . Edited December 30, 2013 by Electric Avenue

[VillaCas]

 

 

So let me get this straight if I may.

You have now gone from quoting our improvement in points total at the same stage last season (and I can understand why) to now quoting statistics which apparently excuse our performances under Lambert because we pay low wages. In answering your point I asked you what wages were Gabby, Vlaar, Delph, Weimann, Benteke and Guzan on. You ignored the question.

I then asked you if there is a correlation in performance to wages why is Bent on more wages than Benteke ANSWERED and then quoted you QPR last season who had a high wage outlay yet were relegated. ANSWERED Reading your above post you have yet again failed to reply in context preferring to use sarcasm concerning both Bent and Redknapp. One would have hoped you would have stopped doing that after Berbatov and Adam PREVIOUSLY ANSWERED made you choke on your own opinion of them but obviously ignorance is bliss. LOL

Unless you have the financial clout of the top four, in our mini league there really is no correlation in wages to performance PROOF??? it just comes down to how well you are organised and coached and it is no surprise at all that your very own poster boy according to HH is finally seeing the error of his ways and looking to purchase more experienced players, em, who apparently are not going to be asking the earth in wages. Strange you can actually do that VillaCas isn't it.

Finally just before you go off on another one of your disappearing acts here is a much more relevant stat for you. We'll three actually.

Under your very own poster boy this season we have won two home games in ten with the lowest goals scored in all four divisions. We've won eleven games out of the last forty eight and we're just through an easier set of fixtures.

I note since results are the most important stats of all you have yet to show a result stat table I have absolutely no idea what a result stat table is?? concerning Lambert. I wonder why that is?

 

This is not meant as an insult (truly) but you really don't understand the argument do you?

 

I really can't be bothered to go explain it to you, again

You've no idea what a result table is yet you can post graphs concerning wage to point ratio?

 

Ok i'll make it easy for you then.

 

There must be some kind of graph, table, that can show our results since Lambert became our manager. I mean that would show beyond a shadow of a doubt how successful or how poor Lambert's performance has been. Trying to pull obscure stats out of your arse to prove that Lambert has somehow actually  overachieved with us even though everything else would suggest that he has been a complete disaster just won't cut it with the majority here!

 

 

No, I've no idea what a "result stat table" is and by the sound of things neither do you

 

Let's follow your plan of appointing a new manager every 12 months or so. Pulis seems flavour of the month or maybe Hughes? or perhaps Pulis first and then Hughes 12 months later

[McGregor1888]

Lambert's the man for the job.  

[Electric Avenue]

Can we have a simple pie chart please showing home games under lambert, Wins, Draws, Losses.

[Oaks]

Having calmeing down after Boxing Day I wouldn't sack Lambert. I was perfectly happy with the season up until this run of 5 games. We are always 2-3 injuries from struggling. The football is horrific though. I expect more from Aston Villa, maybe I shouldn't from these players and this manager under these restraints.

[floody555]

NO NO NO If we sack him then we start all over again and then it will be the next persons problem, its only 18 months in to striping the club right back. What's the point of getting on his back and if you thought it would be a quick fix after the SHIT O'Niel left us in then you're massively mistaken as we know Lerner pumped £250m into our beloved club on and of the field (1 of the best training complexes) in the uk. There's no wonder he's pulled the plug on the finances and forced Lambert to shop in the lower echelons of the football leagues. I think it would be 3 yrs at least before we see an improvement on the field and already tonight i've seen a different approach in his press conf' to getting some1 more experienced in to help the younger ones and this is obviously as the funds are becoming a little more accesible

VTiD

[VillaCas]

 

 

I believe Lambert was right to freeze out the overpaid, underperformers (I also believe that this was part of the agreement with Lerner when he took the job)

I believe that the £40m figure that is constantly trotted out is a red herring - in the same period we have lost players that cost double that to recruit

 

Just want to reply to the two points in bold as we've debated everything else.

 

I am also in no doubt that removing under-performing players on high wages was in the remit but any manager would want to do that anyway irrespective of the budget. Where we differ is that he did not have to use the guillotine on the first team in the way that he did. I have seen no quote or anything substantiated to suggest differently. What I have seen however is a quote from the chief executive stating that Lambert had a budget and it was up to him how he spent it. That's right he got rid of some and kept some - he discarded/did not renew Heskey, Holman, Collins, Cuellar, Makoun, Warnock and Hutton. He kept Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent, Bannan, Zog, Gabby, Andi, Delph, Clark, Baker. He would have kept Petrov too if that had been an option which sadly it was not. Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent and Bannan have since been discarded as they didn't perform and/or didn't have the right attitude and/or we already had a better option. There is not one player discarded (with the obvious exception of Petrov) who I wish was still here

 

Concerning your second point I think Risso has quoted stats showing an expenditure of 40m plus. Unsurprisingly you've misunderstood, again. We've paid out around £40m in fees whislt losing players that cost us around £80m in fees - a net outgoing of talent of £40m

Simple question even for you to understand.

How much has Lambert spent since he's been our manager?

 

 

I've made it a little larger in case you missed it

[AstonMartin82]

 Just a better manager with a system, and a knowledge of how to get the best out of players.

 

 Lets take Barry Bannan, looked distinctly average at VP, goes to Palace, struggles under Golom, Pulis comes in, a long ball manager, and plays Bannan in a free role, and he looks a much better player for it.PL has come in, and most players have not stepped up from last season.Not one player is playing better than towards the end of last season.Why is that?

 

You should try heroin. It's the best thing ever for the short term. Just a shame about the longer term and is certainly no foundation to build a life on.

[VillaCas]

 

 

 

Nice charts and all that but I go on what's in front of me on the football field. I've seen enough of this insipid shit from team lambert and I want them gone. He will take us down.

 

.......and bring in another manager, who will struggle with exactly the same problems, who will want to bring in his own players and 18 months down the line you will want him gone too.......and over and over

We don't necessarily need that major overhaul, just a manager who can extract the very best from a set of professional footballers, who has exceptional man management skills aswell as good coaches and is able to set teams up with a game plan , proper tactics and play players in their strongest position. I'd argue the very basics of a top flight manager. Of course lambert is totally unproven at this level and it certainly shows.

 

 

Thanks for narrowing it down, so....were looking for a proven top flight manager, with exceptional man-management skills who will be prepared to work with the current squad and budget and presumably someone who is willing to take the same risk with their career and reputation that Lambert has taken and in return we promise to be patient for 12 months........any thoughts on who that might be?

 

 

No, thought not

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Having calmeing down after Boxing Day I wouldn't sack Lambert. I was perfectly happy with the season up until this run of 5 games. We are always 2-3 injuries from struggling. The football is horrific though. I expect more from Aston Villa, maybe I shouldn't from these players and this manager under these restraints.

This.

We need a win though, desperately. I've still got one foot on the ledge.

[GarethRDR]

Can we have a simple pie chart please showing home games under lambert, Wins, Draws, Losses.

[Morpheus]

So let me get this straight if I may.

You have now gone from quoting our improvement in points total at the same stage last season (and I can understand why) to now quoting statistics which apparently excuse our performances under Lambert because we pay low wages. In answering your point I asked you what wages were Gabby, Vlaar, Delph, Weimann, Benteke and Guzan on. You ignored the question.

I then asked you if there is a correlation in performance to wages why is Bent on more wages than Benteke ANSWERED and then quoted you QPR last season who had a high wage outlay yet were relegated. ANSWERED Reading your above post you have yet again failed to reply in context preferring to use sarcasm concerning both Bent and Redknapp. One would have hoped you would have stopped doing that after Berbatov and Adam PREVIOUSLY ANSWERED made you choke on your own opinion of them but obviously ignorance is bliss. LOL

Unless you have the financial clout of the top four, in our mini league there really is no correlation in wages to performance PROOF??? it just comes down to how well you are organised and coached and it is no surprise at all that your very own poster boy according to HH is finally seeing the error of his ways and looking to purchase more experienced players, em, who apparently are not going to be asking the earth in wages. Strange you can actually do that VillaCas isn't it.

Finally just before you go off on another one of your disappearing acts here is a much more relevant stat for you. We'll three actually.

Under your very own poster boy this season we have won two home games in ten with the lowest goals scored in all four divisions. We've won eleven games out of the last forty eight and we're just through an easier set of fixtures.

I note since results are the most important stats of all you have yet to show a result stat table I have absolutely no idea what a result stat table is?? concerning Lambert. I wonder why that is?

 

This is not meant as an insult (truly) but you really don't understand the argument do you?

 

I really can't be bothered to go explain it to you, again

You've no idea what a result table is yet you can post graphs concerning wage to point ratio?

 

Ok i'll make it easy for you then.

 

There must be some kind of graph, table, that can show our results since Lambert became our manager. I mean that would show beyond a shadow of a doubt how successful or how poor Lambert's performance has been. Trying to pull obscure stats out of your arse to prove that Lambert has somehow actually  overachieved with us even though everything else would suggest that he has been a complete disaster just won't cut it with the majority here!

 

No, I've no idea what a "result stat table" is and by the sound of things neither do you

 

Let's follow your plan of appointing a new manager every 12 months or so. Pulis seems flavour of the month or maybe Hughes? or perhaps Pulis first and then Hughes 12 months later

I'll ask you again.

If you are able to produce an obscure graph showing wages to point ratio then show me any graph, pie chart or otherwise depicting Lambert's record of results with us.

I'd also be very interested in you showing me where on site I have advocated a plan 'of appointing a new manager every 12 months?'