Mart-L7 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yes but its all very easy to state these facts but do any of you have a solution? Where's the wealthy buyer? I don't think we will be in a relegation battle this season either. Does he have to be wealthy ? - Randy is very rich guy - but not much of that has come Aston Villa's way since MON left - So we have a billionaire owner in name alone. Ive said before a good owner either brings money or expertise. At present Randy brings neither. Surley we shouldn't be struggling at the bottom of the prem on home crowds of 37,000 ?. As well as Randy's lack of cash - the fact that he is no longer interested is equally damaging. Very true and i agree its a worry that he has lost interest. I don't think we can blame all our woes on him though. The only thing I don't blame him for is the team selection come match day, it's at the point now where west brom have been finishing above us for the last 2 seasons and 1 point off us the season before that. The blokes turned the club into a joke. Although I think some of Lamberts ways are strange the guys fighting a battle with one arm tied behind his back and both legs cut off. Old Randy needs to buy some laxatives so he can help Lambert out. Back to the topic I couldn't care less if Lerner never came to a game ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I am in my 26th season on the spin as a season ticket holder. I went to Villa Park yesterday not expecting to beat Everton. Now I have been to Villa Park many times not expecting to beat the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool but this was Everton. A club very similar in size to ourselves and one that will most likely finish somewhere between 9th and 7th this season. Lerners ownership has sucked all the hopes and expectations I had for this great club out of me. I know it has happened to a lot of other supporters as well. It used to be that top 6 should be the minimum of our ambitions for this great club. Now for some it is staying up and for many being lower to mid table fodder. I don't think I am asking for much just in thinking that the least of our ambitions should be to compete to finish 6th/7th. Under Lerner though I have zero confidence that it will happen. The real shame in it all is that he now has a manger capable of achieving relative success so long as he gets some decent backing in fees and wages. I wouldn't bet on him being around for the long term though as there will come a point when Lambert will realize the owner cannot match his own ambitions and expectations. Either that or he will be made a scapegoat for the owners failings. Well written and heartfelt, but I am not sure our expectations should be 6-7th? Perhaps were are all to blame as reallyas our crowds do not justfiy the claims that we should be a top 6 side. In a couple of years time West Ham will probably be pulling in more people. Sunderland year in, year out get more than us but I doubt they expect a top 8 spot, they are probably happy just to stay up. We are run as a mid table premiership club and unless Lambert over achieves that is where we will finish for at least the next 2 to 3 seasons. Not a great thought on a sunday night but there you go. Jesus wept what kind of club do you think Villa are, a Fulham or a Wigan? Of course we should be aiming for the top 6! We've spent over 100 seasons in the top flight, we're not some kind of 'Johnny come latelys' who are just happy to be here mixing with the big boys. Have a bit of pride in the club. Surely Lerner hasn't sucked every last bit of ambition out of you? Bascially yes. Even with a sugar daddy white knight Villa still managed to blow it, and now we are probably on a worse football footing in the standings than under Ellis. Better run now of course but our rivals are far stronger now than in the early/mid 2000s. Villa have only finished in the top 5 about half a dozen times since the war so I dont think we have a god given right to be at the top really. Villa is still my team, I try to go to as many games as I can afford but my ambitions for Villa were badly burned under Lerner and I dont want to get hurt again. So I will be happy for us to be a cosy mid table side trying to play half decent football. A slightly more ambitious and bigger Fulham you could say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Even with a sugar daddy white knight Villa still managed to blow it, and now we are probably on a worse football footing in the standings than under Ellis. Better run now of course but our rivals are far stronger now than in the early/mid 2000s. Villa have only finished in the top 5 about half a dozen times since the war so I dont think we have a god given right to be at the top really. Villa is still my team, I try to go to as many games as I can afford but my ambitions for Villa were badly burned under Lerner and I dont want to get hurt again. So I will be happy for us to be a cosy mid table side trying to play half decent football. A slightly more ambitious and bigger Fulham you could say. Slightly odd selection of statistics there. You don't say which war you are talking about, but we have finished in the top 5 six times since 1975/6, when we re-emerged from 8 seasons of lower league football and when Villa's modern era arguably started. If you count the times since 75/6 that we have finished in the top 7 - which is what Mark's post was talking about - it is fifteen times out of 38 seasons, so the expectation that we should aim for 6/7th starts to look less absurd. We've also taken part in European competitions (excluding Intertoto) 16 times during that period and that is another of my expectations - that we will see European games at VP at least once every 3 seasons. Based on our history since the modern club was born, that doesn't seem too outlandish either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So I will be happy for us to be a cosy mid table side trying to play half decent football. A slightly more ambitious and bigger Fulham you could say. I doubt Fulham fans would be happy with any less then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Big_John_10 Posted October 28, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2013 Even with a sugar daddy white knight Villa still managed to blow it, and now we are probably on a worse football footing in the standings than under Ellis. Better run now of course but our rivals are far stronger now than in the early/mid 2000s. Villa have only finished in the top 5 about half a dozen times since the war so I dont think we have a god given right to be at the top really. Villa is still my team, I try to go to as many games as I can afford but my ambitions for Villa were badly burned under Lerner and I dont want to get hurt again. So I will be happy for us to be a cosy mid table side trying to play half decent football. A slightly more ambitious and bigger Fulham you could say. Slightly odd selection of statistics there. You don't say which war you are talking about, but we have finished in the top 5 six times since 1975/6, when we re-emerged from 8 seasons of lower league football and when Villa's modern era arguably started. If you count the times since 75/6 that we have finished in the top 7 - which is what Mark's post was talking about - it is fifteen times out of 38 seasons, so the expectation that we should aim for 6/7th starts to look less absurd. We've also taken part in European competitions (excluding Intertoto) 16 times during that period and that is another of my expectations - that we will see European games at VP at least once every 3 seasons. Based on our history since the modern club was born, that doesn't seem too outlandish either. Haha well said, it's ridiculous the shit some post. Before Lerner took over we'd had 14 premiership seasons. We finished in the top 7 in 50% of them. We also narrowly missed out, finishing 8th in two of them. So in our premiership history we finished outside the top 8 5 times before Lerner. We've now finished outside the top 8 the last 3 seasons in a row and this year will probably make it 4. Maybe these fans should look into the club they support rather than thinking of ways to defend the owner. I mean you actually have Stefan in off topic admitting it pisses him off over the sense of entitlement our fan base have. Maybe have a look at the club you've chosen to support. We have that sense of entitlement because that's what our club was. That's what we've experienced the majority of the time before Lerner came in. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 To be fair, the sense of entitlement that all football fans have makes me uneasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Even with a sugar daddy white knight Villa still managed to blow it, and now we are probably on a worse football footing in the standings than under Ellis. Better run now of course but our rivals are far stronger now than in the early/mid 2000s. Villa have only finished in the top 5 about half a dozen times since the war so I dont think we have a god given right to be at the top really. Villa is still my team, I try to go to as many games as I can afford but my ambitions for Villa were badly burned under Lerner and I dont want to get hurt again. So I will be happy for us to be a cosy mid table side trying to play half decent football. A slightly more ambitious and bigger Fulham you could say. Slightly odd selection of statistics there. You don't say which war you are talking about, but we have finished in the top 5 six times since 1975/6, when we re-emerged from 8 seasons of lower league football and when Villa's modern era arguably started. If you count the times since 75/6 that we have finished in the top 7 - which is what Mark's post was talking about - it is fifteen times out of 38 seasons, so the expectation that we should aim for 6/7th starts to look less absurd. We've also taken part in European competitions (excluding Intertoto) 16 times during that period and that is another of my expectations - that we will see European games at VP at least once every 3 seasons. Based on our history since the modern club was born, that doesn't seem too outlandish either. Haha well said, it's ridiculous the shit some post. Before Lerner took over we'd had 14 premiership seasons. We finished in the top 7 in 50% of them. We also narrowly missed out, finishing 8th in two of them. So in our premiership history we finished outside the top 8 5 times before Lerner. We've now finished outside the top 8 the last 3 seasons in a row and this year will probably make it 4. Maybe these fans should look into the club they support rather than thinking of ways to defend the owner. I mean you actually have Stefan in off topic admitting it pisses him off over the sense of entitlement our fan base have. Maybe have a look at the club you've chosen to support. We have that sense of entitlement because that's what our club was. That's what we've experienced the majority of the time before Lerner came in. i guess anyone that doesn't agree with you talks shit. Villa have a great history but most of that is ancient history now. We haven't won the FA Cup since 57. The last time we won the league before 81 was 1910. Yes we won the European cup and and a few league cups. Winning the league in 81 and the European cup in 82 should have been the prelude to something great but Doug **** that up. The way I see it is the top 4 is everything and as all hope of us achieving that without a huge influx of cash like City then its hard to get excited about a mid table or top 8 finish. . Last season was more exciting than most because we were in a relegation battle. But anyway I'm talking shit so I'll leave this thread to all the Lerner haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I think we are being undersold in all honesty. It's like our owner came along and at the time thought we would get top 4... failed and his "Fad" is now over and he simply wants to ensure that he firstly doesn't lose any more money and then if possible gets some back too... As for where we finish i don't think he really gives a monkeys although would obviously prefer us to remain a Premier League club if possible... if not we are surely already streamlined enough to cope with a relegation. I think it will be very interesting to see where we lie regards wages & overall investments compared to other clubs but how on Earth we have fallen behind some of the teams (most of the other Premier League teams) that we clearly have done is frankly massively embarrassing to me as a fan of 35 years or so. On the positive side if we do manage to produce our own equivalent of Dortmund then i will eat my words & i really hope we do...Good luck to Randy and Paul's on that one.... But looking at the Dortmund team they are a million miles ahead of us quality wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Before Lerner took over we'd had 14 premiership seasons. We finished in the top 7 in 50% of them. We also narrowly missed out, finishing 8th in two of them. So in our premiership history we finished outside the top 8 5 times before Lerner. We've now finished outside the top 8 the last 3 seasons in a row and this year will probably make it 4 we have finished top 7 in 3 of Lerners 7 full seasons in charge so its nearly 50% as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Before Lerner took over we'd had 14 premiership seasons. We finished in the top 7 in 50% of them. We also narrowly missed out, finishing 8th in two of them. So in our premiership history we finished outside the top 8 5 times before Lerner. We've now finished outside the top 8 the last 3 seasons in a row and this year will probably make it 4 we have finished top 7 in 3 of Lerners 7 full seasons in charge so its nearly 50% as well So we are on the decline then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 God some of you chat balls. I think we can all agree money is everything in football these days. Heres a fact for you..... Villa have the 8th highest income and the difference between 7th and 11th highest income is only a few million. Therefore it is realistic that where our finishing position should be. You can go on about being in the Premiership all the time but the stark facts are that is what we receive so that is what we spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Our finishing position should be 16th? Or we should be spending less than Cardiff, Swansea, Southampton and others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 and I think we'll finish somewhere between those positions this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 God some of you chat balls. I think we can all agree money is everything in football these days. Heres a fact for you..... Villa have the 8th highest income and the difference between 7th and 11th highest income is only a few million. Therefore it is realistic that where our finishing position should be. You can go on about being in the Premiership all the time but the stark facts are that is what we receive so that is what we spend. So we have the 8th highest income and haven't finished there for the last 3 years and probably won't this year. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 To be fair, the sense of entitlement that all football fans have makes me uneasy You specifically said the sense of entitlement from our fan base pisses you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 It does. Because this is a Villa site. But in relation to that, all football fans have the same sense of entitlement. Lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Aren't we outside say the top 4 or 5' still one of the biggest spenders in the transfer market ? The bigget mistake Lerner and Faulkner have made is the manager selections. It's cost the club millions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 It does. Because this is a Villa site. But in relation to that, all football fans have the same sense of entitlement. Lighten up. Haha you moan at fans and you tell me to lighten up. Last year, during your first ever season ticket, you moaned about the fans at villa park and now this year you moan about fans who expect more than relegation battles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 We still have the 7th highest wage bill, Our turnover is only the 9th highest. net debt is 122 mil. 18 mil loss last tax year compared to 54 mil the previous year. Should Lerner just keep spending until we are bankrupt. Obviously its going to take time for Lambert to get our club back on a level footing and maybe start challenging for eufa league places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Its on wikepedia "He invested about £20m into the club on March 2013 and waived off the £100m interest owed to him by Aston Villa due to the fact Villa were struggling financially". Just to stem the tide of dodgy data threatening to overwhelm this thread, this Wikipedia entry is badly garbled and wrong. Lerner waived interest payments on £107m of loans, amounting to £20m. This article in the Telegraph (which largely reproduces a press release from the club) explains it more clearly. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/9903821/Randy-Lerner-gives-up-20-million-of-own-wealth-to-help-Aston-Villa-cut-financial-losses.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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