HanoiVillan

Definitely not that. Under any circumstances.

I still can't believe he actually said he wasn't trying . . . remarkable. He's supposed to be 'a Villa fan' as well.

The counterpoint to that is that maybe he just doesn't really want to get rid of us enough yet . . . After years in the lower division, clear we're not coming back, him still hemorrhaging cash, he might be glad to get rid of us. But you're right, it does ultimately depend on when he's prepared to sell us. It's just that overall, far more transfers of ownership are done at Championship level than at PL level.

Simply, we'll be more attractive to buyers as a Championship club, because the asking price will be lower. (This is why the idea that Lerner plans to 'park us in the Championship' makes no sense at all).

Because obviously that leaves him masssively exposed to downside risk without the power to do much about the direction of the club. He would never agree to that in a million years, and nor should he.

That picture of a robber is not something I'm going to blame him for . . . the situation here is that fans can write whatever shit they want - and the abuse in the case was enormous - but then when the player reacts they go all soft and offended and 'did you see what the bad man did?' Well, I'm sorry, but for me one good life lesson is 'if you can't take it, don't dish it out'.

Incredible.

Terry, the point about them asking for evidence of funds is this: they won't give you any information because they will suspect - correctly suspect, in fact - that you don't have any access to financing so all they will be doing is giving you sensitive information for no return. If they realise you're a commenter on a forum, who is almost certain to share that information with other fans, they're even less likely to give it to you. Even if they did, you would sign a non-disclosure agreement which would prevent you from organising the financing because you couldn't tell anyone how much you needed to raise. The way deals like this are done in real life is that MegaRichGuy decides he wants to sell a football club, so he asks businesspeople who know loads of MegaRichPeople if any of them have ever shown any interest in buying a football club, and then there's a lot of tentative back-and-forth between these billionaires through the middlemen (who have signed non-disclosure agreements and so will never leak information). The seller seeks out buyers who he feels confident have the money, they don't just tell anyone for anyone to make a bid. You're a Normal Person and you don't have access to these informal back channels, nor do you have any financing or a credible way of putting it in place, so sooner or later they will just stall. Even when supporters' takeovers have happened, they are usually headed by a prominent local businessman.

What's that got to do with it? Clubs still do transfers with worse players you know. A good businessman is a good businessman, whether he's selling players at Spurs or at Barnsley. I wasn't trying to specifically compare our situation to Spurs', that would be ridiculous.

Yes, I've sort of seen that. But why don't they just play him as a winger or something? His ineptitude as a full back knows no limits. He's such a coward, I've never seen anyone bottle out of so many challenges.

Haha fair enough, well you've been around much longer than me then, but I can't see the old leopard changing his spots.

Yes, they would care, at least a little bit, not because Bacuna is a brilliant footballer (he isn't) but because the mark of a well-run club is losing as few assets as possible for no return. I know we're all pissed off at Bacuna today, but there is somewhere a club that would pay a transfer fee for a guy with three years of Premier League experience, in his mid-20's, who can cover a variety of positions. Daniel Levy would find one. Not a lot of money, but some money, and we need all the money we can get where we're going. Failing to sell players hasn't helped fill our pitiful transfer kitties in recent years.

What's the bizarre theory, that he came off because of psychic pain from the abuse he's received or that he didn't celebrate last week because of same? The first theory is bizarre, the second is not at all bizarre, and in fact was basically confirmed by the player after the game.

The problem with moaning about contract extensions is that this time twelve months ago we were complaining about the club failing to protect its assets. Now I know the cheap and easy answer is that these players are so bad we can't call them 'assets', but that is literally what they are. Failing to get transfer fees for players because they've run out their deals is also a problem. It probably is fair to say that a guy like Bacuna, who has only been a guaranteed starter for brief periods in his three years at the club, shouldn't have been given a five-year contract, however. Three years would have been much more logical.

Yes, partly, and partly that the asking price would rapidly diminish as well. He'd have to reduce it to almost nothing in League One or League Two, especially if we'd been in or close to administration during that time. I don't know how long you've been following the club, but Doug Ellis is a famous miser. That's his main, defining, personality trait, the thing everybody knows him for, more than anything else. Any plan that involves him giving anybody a present is doomed to failure. I'm not sure, other posters have advanced the theory a lot in recent weeks, but I have to admit I haven't really been following closely.

Yes, I was shocked at the lack of effort yesterday, and it was telling that Lescott admitted it in his mea culpa. I thought it was weird as well - they certainly gave their all last week, what changed? And it's true that they don't have the ability to phone in a performance. Most players relax a bit from time to time, that's pretty much second nature, but these can't get away with it. And how did they all come to give up on the same day?

Obviously, there are very many reasons why it couldn't work, though I appreciate the effort you went to to think of all that. Problem 1: Ellis wouldn't buy us back. Problem 2: It would be difficult in the current climate to persuade 25,000 fans to pony up a grand. That would be a big increase on an average season ticket, and fans will probably buy many fewer season tickets for a season in the Championship. Problem 3: £250 is a huge sum for a non-voting share. I really doubt a third of the clubs global support base will give up that sort of money when it doesn't buy them anything at all - probably a third of the global support couldn't even afford it, I know I couldn't, I've barely got that much in my current account. Problem 4: Lerner - according to some on here - doesn't actually want to sell us. As I say though, I appreciate the effort. Fan ownership would be great, but the nature of capital-raising for it means we'd have to drop a long way, and for a long time, before it became a practical option.

Can't it be a combination of both? Laziness/disinterest and a lack of ability? I don't see why they're mutually exclusive.

I will go into bat to defend Veretout, not for his performance today - he was absolute shite, there's no possible denying it - but for his recent improvement and his potential to get better. I still believe, though of course it was shaken today.

I would kill to have James Collins back.

I appreciate the praise he gives the fans. It doesn't make me suddenly forget the disastrous start to the season, but I do think it's a decent gesture. On the other hand, I wish he'd stop putting the boot into Garde. All he needs to say is something along the lines of 'as he's finding out, it's a difficult job at a tough club that has a lot of problems behind the scenes'. That way he doesn't humiliate himself or his successor, and it has the virtue of being true as well.

They really do need a whole new back four - they should keep Mbemba but buy two new CB's anyway. I don't understand Janmaat - is he this bad when he plays for Holland? I thought he was supposed to be good, but he often seems to be the worst out of all of them.

There's a lot of questions there! All I mean, very simply, is that football clubs and football fans don't simply take a view of what will be an 'acceptable' season on August 1st and then fail to revise it throughout the season. The conversation began because you suggested Arsenal wouldn't be disappointed if they failed to win the league, because 2nd would have been their target at the start of the season. Other people suggested that probably isn't true, because the only club with a better squad (Man City) are now behind them and the two teams above them are weaker on paper. People are suggesting, therefore, that this might be Arsenal's best chance for a while. Arsenal didn't know it would be their best chance on August 1st, so probably 2nd would have seemed like a maximum goal. Now, on February 15th, there is a real chance they could finish 1st. Ergo, many Arsenal fans will be disappointed if they don't finish 1st. People illustrated this point by comparison to Leicester. On August 1st, Leicester were probably targeting something in the region of 14th-17th. Now, they are 1st. If they somehow contrived to lose every game, and end up 14th (although it's too late for that by now) the season would feel like a disappointment. Not because they had underachieved their pre-season expectations, but because those expectations changed during the season. Now, 5th would be a massive disappointment. You seem to regard that as ridiculous, because it's not logical for people to be disappointed when they have over-achieved their targets. And in some ways you're right! But human psychology just doesn't work like that. On your other questions - Monk was sacked because Swansea felt there was a real chance of relegation if he remained manager, not because he 'didn't live up to hype'. Pardew won't be sacked, but the club will soon be underperforming if they lose many more games (they're not safe yet) and Allardyce was sacked because West Ham wanted a manager playing a more attractive style of football before their move, rather than anything to do with expectations per se.

I imagine you signed away the right to complain about this in the small print of your contract.

I think that's the best we can hope for.