mikeyp102 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Shaw signing for Man Utd is unlikely given how many of the big teams are interested. I feel like you underestimate how big Man U are I think an awful lot of people are overestimating this. Their current stature in the game is entirely the work of one man, now he has gone they will very quickly become one of many 'top' sides. They are still a massive club with a huge worldwide stature, that's not going to alter that fast. Look at Liverpool haven't won the league for years but are still big throughout the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) They are still a massive club with a huge worldwide stature, that's not going to alter that fast. Look at Liverpool haven't won the league for years but are still big throughout the world Really? Their present stature is 7th in the table and out of all domestic cups. Man Utd are a step behind Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City and are competing directly with Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle for the top talent the big guns don't want. Liverpool are a great example of a club that stalled fast. It can happen. After dominating the 1980s, not won the Premier League. Man Utd is not going to win the league any time soon. Just not got the quality without a £200 million spend starting with the defence and even then it won't be a one season job. Edited January 25, 2014 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 They are still a massive club with a huge worldwide stature, that's not going to alter that fast. Look at Liverpool haven't won the league for years but are still big throughout the world Really? Their present stature is 7th in the table and out of all domestic cups. Man Utd are a step behind Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City and are competing directly with Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle for the top talent the big guns don't want. Liverpool are a great example of a club that stalled fast. It can happen. After dominating the 1980s, not won the Premier League. Man Utd is not going to win the league any time soon. Just not got the quality without a £200 million spend starting with the defence and even then it won't be a one season job. That's the difference, they make enough money to have a £200m spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I think it is again people mistaking the strength or 'size' of a team/squad rather for the strength or size of a club. Man United is the biggest football club on the planet. The work that Sir Alex put in is indeed what made the club so big, but that work is not going to be undone unless the club goes through many years of regression. Currently their squad isn't good enough, but if they put the money up to rectify that then they'll soon be back at the top of the league. They need a really big spend, as Rovers13 says though, they have the money to pull one off. Mata is a good start but they need to continue the spending, if they do then I wouldn't be surprised to see Moyes pull them back up the league into the European spots before the end of the season. It is all down to whether or not they are willing to spend big, the Mata deal indicates that they are but I guess we'll see. Edited January 25, 2014 by samjp26 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 'Now, Joo-An, I hope you'll enjoy your stay, and don't forget, if you touch my **** precious, I'll get that rock over there and bash your face in. Don't forget to smile. *golum*.' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 @TransferUpdate: Manchester United are planning up to five more signings of the same calibre as £37.1m club record capture Juan Mata. (Sunday Times) I doubt they will be quite the same stature, but if they can get 3-4 more players in, I can see them still finishing top 4, which would be disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I can't see them signing them all this window, in the summer when they'll be moving the likes of Vidic, Evra and Rio out is the logical time to do it. It's going to be a very different line up for them next season. Think Luke Shaw will go to Chelsea as I think they'll let Cole go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 They are still a massive club with a huge worldwide stature, that's not going to alter that fast. Look at Liverpool haven't won the league for years but are still big throughout the world Really? Their present stature is 7th in the table and out of all domestic cups. Man Utd are a step behind Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City and are competing directly with Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle for the top talent the big guns don't want. Liverpool are a great example of a club that stalled fast. It can happen. After dominating the 1980s, not won the Premier League. Man Utd is not going to win the league any time soon. Just not got the quality without a £200 million spend starting with the defence and even then it won't be a one season job. Wow how deluded are you sir!? It's like you don't have a middle view of things, it's either black or white. Heaven or hell. Out of all the cups? Well there are just two, they just stumbled out on penalties in the semi-final, it's not like they lost in the first game to Halifax Town. They are still in the Champions League after a very solid group stage and they have a favorable fixture coming up against Olympiacos I think it was, who knows what will happen. They are not favorites or anything, but I guess Chelsea, Liverpool, Internazionale and Porto weren't either the last 10 years. In an ongoing league they are 7th after 22 games, after changing their manager and also sustaining a lot of injuries to their best players at the same time. The league is extremely tight, they are exactly 6 points behind Liverpool and they have lots of games to correct that standing. They also play Liverpool at Old Trafford. Van Persie, Rooney and Mata all available together in the coming weeks as well potential newcomers within the next five days. The period after Ferguson would always lead to problems, for every manager in the world. Besides, did Ferguson win every single year? Not at all, they had several years where they didn't have a chance of winning the title. Chelsea finished 6th two years ago; are they out of it now? Of course not, they have the financial stability to make corrections - exactly like United are doing now when huge players are coming to the end of their careers. Servants like Ferdinand and Vidic, as well as Carrick and Evra are reaching a certain age and they will be replaced by good players. Not with Ashley Westwood and Kevin Nolan, but with top international players. Competing directly with Newcaste and Everton for players the top clubs don't want? Are you serious? They just signed Juan Mata for 37M! They are linked with players like Arturo Vidal and Toni Kroos at the moment, not Leon Osman and Gary Medel. Of course they would struggle with Man City/Chelsea in terms of signing players, just like they would have five years ago due to the insane wages those clubs can afford to pay. But don't kid yourself, United are a world-wide institution, Newcastle and Everton are not. The difference between Liverpool and United is that United have a lot of money to spend on players to rise again, the system is intact, the revenue will stay extremely strong for many years and so on. If Moyes still sucks in two years they will sack him and they will bring in a new character to correct it. United and the league will benefit from them not winning everything this season, it makes it more interesting and most likely leads to huge talent coming into this league instead of shipping them out. I'd much rather have Bale, Modric, Ronaldo et al in this league instead of seeing them abroad, no doubt will United buy talent we all want to see every weekend. You just don't respect the game like you should. You probably advocated the fact that we were bigger than Liverpool four - five years ago when we finished in front of them and they got something like 8th, saying we would compete at their level for the foreseeable future and snatch players they really would have liked to sign. It doesn't work like that, the history and the tradition is huge at Anfield and it didn't take them long to overtake us again. We finishing 5th and them finishing 10th next season would still see them attract bigger and better players every day of the week. United will of course not win the league this season, they wouldn't do it with Fergie onboard either. Reaching 4th is very reachable, they have Cardiff, Stoke, Fulham in the next three weeks. Things will even itself out quickly, especially as their best players will return up front. The last part of the season is always the hardest, and the other clubs just don't have the numbers. At least not Everton and Liverpool, they rely on the same players every single week and they will tire. Johnson and Lucas are out for months, two vital players in their not so skilled team. It will be interesting to see them against Everton on Tuesday, one of the teams will either lose three or two points (both) and then United will be just 2-3 back if they beat Cardiff. With 15 games remaining. If you are so tough, go to the bookies and bet on United finishing 7th come May. I sure as hell wouldn't do it. I have huge respect for Man Utd and what they have done the last 20 years. I have huge respect for Arsenal and not least Arsene Wenger who has sustained a lot of pressure for not competing in the league. People were writing off United last season but they won by over ten points. All down to Van Persie some say, but it doesn't work that way. Suarez is better than Van Persie and Liverpool will never win the league. After one game this season I am pretty sure guys like you decided to write off Arsenal completely, now that they are in front you are suddenly attacking the weakest of the bunch again. The poison here is Man City and Chelsea. I have to admire Man City for the way they are playing at the moment, they are just sublime in every single game, scoring tons of goals. However, both those clubs are built on unfair financial advantages and the other top teams really have to step up a gear. United can compete financially because they are built on success and it doesn't taste so bitter when they spend 40M on one player. Seeing Chelsea buy Matic for 20M after releasing him a few years ago is obnoxious, the same with Willian when they just snapped him up in front of Liverpool and Spurs. It's like they just wanted to avoid making them sign players, in the beginning Mourinho didn't even know where to play him. Also seeing Man City getting sponsored basically by their own owner to pump up revenue is pretty sickening, they suddenly quadrupled the going rate for such a club acquiring sponsorships. Liverpool were 7th last season, Arsenal 4th, Chelsea were 6th two years ago - Liverpool 8th, City were 3rd in 10/11 even with their incredible squad. Predicting United will go 7th and stay there for the future is naive, just wait and see. It's like saying Tiger Woods will rot this year because he played woefully in the first tournament of the year - he'll probably end up winning the Masters in April. United are in a transitional season and they will return, no team will win every single season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 we won't be able to judge the new Man Utd until they have replaced both their CBs with another pair that can form a good partnership. Evans and Jones aren't good enough for a title challenge. only when this position is sorted out will they be a serious football team again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Wow how deluded are you sir!? It's like you don't have a middle view of things, it's either black or white. Heaven or hell. Out of all the cups? Well there are just two, they just stumbled out on penalties in the semi-final, it's not like they lost in the first game to Halifax Town. They are still in the Champions League after a very solid group stage and they have a favorable fixture coming up against Olympiacos I think it was, who knows what will happen. They are not favorites or anything, but I guess Chelsea, Liverpool, Internazionale and Porto weren't either the last 10 years. In an ongoing league they are 7th after 22 games, after changing their manager and also sustaining a lot of injuries to their best players at the same time. The league is extremely tight, they are exactly 6 points behind Liverpool and they have lots of games to correct that standing. They also play Liverpool at Old Trafford. Van Persie, Rooney and Mata all available together in the coming weeks as well potential newcomers within the next five days. The period after Ferguson would always lead to problems, for every manager in the world. Besides, did Ferguson win every single year? Not at all, they had several years where they didn't have a chance of winning the title. Chelsea finished 6th two years ago; are they out of it now? Of course not, they have the financial stability to make corrections - exactly like United are doing now when huge players are coming to the end of their careers. Servants like Ferdinand and Vidic, as well as Carrick and Evra are reaching a certain age and they will be replaced by good players. Not with Ashley Westwood and Kevin Nolan, but with top international players. Competing directly with Newcaste and Everton for players the top clubs don't want? Are you serious? They just signed Juan Mata for 37M! They are linked with players like Arturo Vidal and Toni Kroos at the moment, not Leon Osman and Gary Medel. Of course they would struggle with Man City/Chelsea in terms of signing players, just like they would have five years ago due to the insane wages those clubs can afford to pay. But don't kid yourself, United are a world-wide institution, Newcastle and Everton are not. The difference between Liverpool and United is that United have a lot of money to spend on players to rise again, the system is intact, the revenue will stay extremely strong for many years and so on. If Moyes still sucks in two years they will sack him and they will bring in a new character to correct it. United and the league will benefit from them not winning everything this season, it makes it more interesting and most likely leads to huge talent coming into this league instead of shipping them out. I'd much rather have Bale, Modric, Ronaldo et al in this league instead of seeing them abroad, no doubt will United buy talent we all want to see every weekend. You just don't respect the game like you should. You probably advocated the fact that we were bigger than Liverpool four - five years ago when we finished in front of them and they got something like 8th, saying we would compete at their level for the foreseeable future and snatch players they really would have liked to sign. It doesn't work like that, the history and the tradition is huge at Anfield and it didn't take them long to overtake us again. We finishing 5th and them finishing 10th next season would still see them attract bigger and better players every day of the week. United will of course not win the league this season, they wouldn't do it with Fergie onboard either. Reaching 4th is very reachable, they have Cardiff, Stoke, Fulham in the next three weeks. Things will even itself out quickly, especially as their best players will return up front. The last part of the season is always the hardest, and the other clubs just don't have the numbers. At least not Everton and Liverpool, they rely on the same players every single week and they will tire. Johnson and Lucas are out for months, two vital players in their not so skilled team. It will be interesting to see them against Everton on Tuesday, one of the teams will either lose three or two points (both) and then United will be just 2-3 back if they beat Cardiff. With 15 games remaining. If you are so tough, go to the bookies and bet on United finishing 7th come May. I sure as hell wouldn't do it. I have huge respect for Man Utd and what they have done the last 20 years. I have huge respect for Arsenal and not least Arsene Wenger who has sustained a lot of pressure for not competing in the league. People were writing off United last season but they won by over ten points. All down to Van Persie some say, but it doesn't work that way. Suarez is better than Van Persie and Liverpool will never win the league. After one game this season I am pretty sure guys like you decided to write off Arsenal completely, now that they are in front you are suddenly attacking the weakest of the bunch again. The poison here is Man City and Chelsea. I have to admire Man City for the way they are playing at the moment, they are just sublime in every single game, scoring tons of goals. However, both those clubs are built on unfair financial advantages and the other top teams really have to step up a gear. United can compete financially because they are built on success and it doesn't taste so bitter when they spend 40M on one player. Seeing Chelsea buy Matic for 20M after releasing him a few years ago is obnoxious, the same with Willian when they just snapped him up in front of Liverpool and Spurs. It's like they just wanted to avoid making them sign players, in the beginning Mourinho didn't even know where to play him. Also seeing Man City getting sponsored basically by their own owner to pump up revenue is pretty sickening, they suddenly quadrupled the going rate for such a club acquiring sponsorships. Liverpool were 7th last season, Arsenal 4th, Chelsea were 6th two years ago - Liverpool 8th, City were 3rd in 10/11 even with their incredible squad. Predicting United will go 7th and stay there for the future is naive, just wait and see. It's like saying Tiger Woods will rot this year because he played woefully in the first tournament of the year - he'll probably end up winning the Masters in April. United are in a transitional season and they will return, no team will win every single season. Interesting post, even if I disagree with 90% of it. right now Man Utd team is a joke. the penalty shoot-out summed this up nicely. I'm not being totally black/white about their future though - I've transparently set out my conditions for when Man Utd will cease to be a team around the level of Tottenham. £200 million spend and especially two new CBs. They also need to replace Carrick but the CBs are most important right now - the ones they have are match losers. to appease the fans who have a bad case of Man City-Envy Moyes has bought from the front, so now they have a strike force that looks like it can score a lot of goals (maybe not as many as Man City due to the type of players they are - have to wait and see on that). successful teams are not built from the front. they are built from the back. Vincent Kompany is crucial to Man City. Man Utd need a CB of his calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I just love how precious Papillion gets whenever anyone dares to utter a negative word about Manchester United! That and his constant digs at Liverpool and to a lesser degree Arsenal and of course his constant negativity about us. In fairness I don't have an issue with that given how poor we've been to watch for 90% of the season...but then I remember you frequently moaning during MON's reign when we were 6th-7th which is where Man. United currently are. You are a villa fan right? It's you brother who supports Man. United right? For a neutral thread I've never seen a poster put so many pro points for an opposition team rather than backing his own team on occasions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 If I were Moyes I'd get Yohan Kebab in. I think he's got a lot of money to spend and getting Shaw and Kroos in wouldn't be unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I can certainly see Man. United going a few years without winning the league, they won 1 league title between 2002-07 so it has happened on a small scale before. As a few have said, it's an uphill struggle replacing Fergie...but a great job to come into to replace Moyes as expectations will probably be slightly reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted January 26, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2014 'Now, Joo-An, I hope you'll enjoy your stay, and don't forget, if you touch my **** precious, I'll get that rock over there and bash your face in. Don't forget to smile. *golum*.' The new Head of Modern Languages meets the P.E teacher. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I can certainly see Man. United going a few years without winning the league, they won 1 league title between 2002-07 so it has happened on a small scale before. As a few have said, it's an uphill struggle replacing Fergie...but a great job to come into to replace Moyes as expectations will probably be slightly reduced. Yeah I agree and I think it'll be even harder for them to win the league again now, especially with the competition around them nowadays. Personally I think Man City could become the dominant force in the league for the next few years; it seems as if everything is clicking together, the team have mostly been together for a few years now and adding players like Negredo and Fernandinho has improved them incredibly. Like I said before, if they bring a few more faces in before the end of the window then I think United will be fine getting into Europe, the title on the other hand is out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Pretty confident they will not get 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 The new Head of Modern Languages meets the P.E teacher. Brilliant! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Shaw signing for Man Utd is unlikely given how many of the big teams are interested. I feel like you underestimate how big Man U are I think an awful lot of people are overestimating this. Their current stature in the game is entirely the work of one man, now he has gone they will very quickly become one of many 'top' sides. Man Utd are the biggest team in this country by a mile. One of the biggest names in World football and have been for a very long time. I'm no fan of them but I can respect their heritage and standing in the game. Mata is a great signing for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Man Utd are the biggest team in this country by a mile. One of the biggest names in World football and have been for a very long time. I'm no fan of them but I can respect their heritage and standing in the game. Mata is a great signing for them Big name brands come and go. That's all Man Utd is, a brand. If you ignore the brand and from a neutral perspective assess the current squad... it's not easy to see where the next trophy is coming from. There in the pack with the rest of 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Brands don't go that quick! I agree, this Man Utd team is possibly the poorest I can remember since the late 80's and Fergie did a great job to win the league with them by a distance last year. I'm not disagreeing about the squad, it needs work, but you are basing your view on the size of a club on the current league position. By that rationale Verona are currently bigger than AC Milan? The size of a team is more than just current league position. Its about the the history, the honours, revenue, the stadium, the worldwide support etc. In that regard, Man Utd are still the biggest in the UK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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