magnkarl Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 hours ago, villalad21 said: A football game is a game of 2 halves mate. Poch changed his system in the second half which resulted in Spurs completely dominating the entire half and Man U coaching staff failed to react. Any other keeper and Spurs would of won that pretty comfortable. Any other 11 players and we'd not lose 3-0 to Wigan. That argument is void when OGS and United keeps putting points and wins on the board. De Gea plays for United, so does Phil Jones and Ashley Young who are gash. They won against Spurs, you don't win by hitting De Gea in the leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 14, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted January 14, 2019 The Spurs result is the first significant result. No-one would have condemned him if he failed to win away to one of the form sides less than a month into the role, but to go there and win possibly shows he's more than the Sherwood/RDM analogy. He's not there yet of course, but he has certainly passed his first test with flying colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted January 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 14, 2019 Sherwood won away at Spurs there is still time for them to combust hopefully 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Wolves won there too and more convincingly. Man U finished second in the table last season, they have some terrific players. They weren't playing for Mourinho. OGS is going to be very fortunate if he gets the job full-time. He failed at Cardiff. Man City and Liverpool have possibly the two best managers in the world, so think Man u will want a bigger name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 12 hours ago, villalad21 said: A football game is a game of 2 halves mate. Poch changed his system in the second half which resulted in Spurs completely dominating the entire half and Man U coaching staff failed to react. Any other keeper and Spurs would of won that pretty comfortable. Even in second half Man. United could've been 2 up, Pogba could've easily scored two chances but Lloris made two saves (arguably one that was better than any DDG made). Biggest thing for me is all the things Mourinho said Man. United couldn't do they can. Pogba can't play with discipline against the best teams in the league so he's unused sub v Liverpool. Pogba excellent yesterday. Man. United defence has no composure or athleticism. Churning out the clean sheets regularly now. Lukaku even in abysmal form simply has to start every game upfront because Martial and Rashford are a bit rubbish upfront aren't they? Again first half showed that to be complete BS. And finally my favourite...Mourinho simply convincing everyone that Fellaini was some essential option in this Man. United team. He's hardly been seen since OGS took over and Man. United aren't exactly missing him. Conclusion. Mourinho is well past it with his football "observations" nowadays and deserves such jobs as Real Madrid. Or Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 15 hours ago, PaulC said: Wolves won there too and more convincingly. Man U finished second in the table last season, they have some terrific players. They weren't playing for Mourinho. OGS is going to be very fortunate if he gets the job full-time. He failed at Cardiff. Man City and Liverpool have possibly the two best managers in the world, so think Man u will want a bigger name. The best manager in the world would fail at Cardiff. No money, arguments with the board, change of kit colours, complete mess. OGS has won more than Pochettino. That's undeniable. I'd even wager to say that OGS has had more pressure on him (Cardiff) than what Poch has ever had. Spurs are happy with fourth, Poch's got a set of generational talents there who will easily get him there. Southampton were happy with staying up even though they had a squad that could challenge for 5-7th, and he again had talents that were easily doing that for him (Shaw, Wanyama, Lovren, Chambers, Gabbiadini, Osvaldo.. list goes on.) OGS took a weak, small team from a tiny village in Norway to two titles, several cups and to number 1 in his Europa League group, he's fostered players who play all over Europe, including some of the top wonderkids in Norway like Erling Haaland, Leo Ostigaard, M Elyonussi, F. Gulbrandsen etc.. I don't think Poch would even know how to handle a club like United, while OGS has close to 20 years worth of experience from the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, magnkarl said: OGS has won more than Pochettino. That's undeniable. Sure. In the Norweigian league. I'm not saying it's not an achievement. But are you suggesting Pochettino couldn't have found some success in that league if he'd chosen to manage there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Still too early for me to judge him as a manager. But if he gets them into the top 4 i would have to change my opinion of him. That would be a massive achievement considering they were 11 points behind 4th when he took over. Edited January 15, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Sure. In the Norweigian league. I'm not saying it's not an achievement. But are you suggesting Pochettino couldn't have found some success in that league if he'd chosen to manage there? Sure, but by that standard all managers from leagues not PL, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga are worse than managers with experience from our league even though they won their league with crap teams and beat European opposition. It sure makes for a very interesting list of managers with no "valid" experience. Alex Ferguson being one of them. Management is so much more than how long you've been plugging along with West Brom or Everton and won a cup here and there. Coaching utd has very little with being rated "the best" manager in the world, taking Tottenham to 4th or winning with all teams you've managed before(LVG, Mou) if you try to change the way the club is run. And to answer your question. No I don't think Pocchetino would win the Norwegian league unless he took on Rosenborg who are perennial winners. Solskjaer took a mediocre club and won a league, which is much more than what Poch has achieved. Edited January 15, 2019 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Sure, but by that standard all managers from leagues not PL, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga are worse than managers with experience from our league even though they won their league with crap teams and beat European opposition. It sure makes for a very interesting list of managers with no "valid" experience. Alex Ferguson being one of them. Management is so much more than how long you've been plugging along with West Brom or Everton and won a cup here and there. Coaching utd has very little with being rated "the best" manager in the world, taking Tottenham to 4th or winning with all teams you've managed before(LVG, Mou) if you try to change the way the club is run. And to answer your question. No I don't think Pocchetino would win the Norwegian league unless he took on Rosenborg who are perennial winners. Solskjaer took a mediocre club and won a league, which is much more than what Poch has achieved. No, I didn’t say that. You were using winning stuff in Norway as a positive in a Ole vs Poch debate. I didn’t use it the other way round. My point is you can’t say “well ole has won stuff” when he’s won a relatively poor league and Poch has managed in the premier league. Chris Hughton has won the Chanpionship, is he better than Poch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yes but I think Sherwood could have gone to United and done something similar short-term. Not knocking him but see it all before with lots of managers going to new clubs, but when the honeymoon period is over and the team loses a couple of games, we will see what he is made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: It sure makes for a very interesting list of managers with no "valid" experience. Alex Ferguson being one of them. What Ferguson managed to achieve with Aberdeen is arguably more impressive than what he did with United. He won the european cup (champions league) with Aberdeen, let that sink in. Edited January 15, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 If you cant credit Solskjaer for United upturn in fortune then in same way you cant criticise Smith for our poor form as they both arent the managers squads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, villalad21 said: What Ferguson managed to achieve with Aberdeen is arguably more impressive than what he did with United. He won the european cup (champions league) with Aberdeen, let that sink in. Which is what I've been trying to argue.. The fact that Solskjaer has won, led the league and achieved something that isn't mediocre with a great Southampton squad and the squad of a generation at Tottenham puts him in much better stead than Pocchetino imo. Solskjaer is talking and walking the talk/walk at the moment, if he keeps that up no one can knock him. Including Ince who's just being a typical drama queen. Edited January 16, 2019 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 16 hours ago, Stevo985 said: No, I didn’t say that. You were using winning stuff in Norway as a positive in a Ole vs Poch debate. I didn’t use it the other way round. My point is you can’t say “well ole has won stuff” when he’s won a relatively poor league and Poch has managed in the premier league. Chris Hughton has won the Chanpionship, is he better than Poch? No, the Championship isn't better than winning your group in Europa League and the top 2-3 teams in Norway. Rosenborg would probably be a mediocre PL team if they didn't always sell all their talent abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, PaulC said: Yes but I think Sherwood could have gone to United and done something similar short-term. Not knocking him but see it all before with lots of managers going to new clubs, but when the honeymoon period is over and the team loses a couple of games, we will see what he is made of. How long is the honeymoon period? 4 more games? If he wins 4 more games - would you say that it's still a honeymoon period, considering he'd probably get the record in PL for most wins in a row? The cup winner's cup isn't Champions League. Sure, there's some hype here. But I think the Phelan+OGS combination with AF in the background could be a contender with a new left back and a CB who isn't Jones. Edited January 16, 2019 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Which is what I've been trying to argue.. The fact that Solskjaer has won, led the league and achieved something that isn't mediocre with a great Southampton squad and the squad of a generation at Tottenham puts him in much better stead than Pocchetino imo. Solskjaer is talking and walking the talk/walk at the moment, if he keeps that up no one can knock him. Including Ince who's just being a typical drama queen. Winning a europa league group isn't comparable to winning the champions league with Aberdeen, although not a bad achievment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, villalad21 said: What Ferguson managed to achieve with Aberdeen is arguably more impressive than what he did with United. He won the european cup (champions league) with Aberdeen, let that sink in. No they didn't They won the Cup Winner's Cup, qualifying for winning the Scottish Cup the year before. Edited January 16, 2019 by a m ole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, a m ole said: No they didn't They won the Cup Winner's Cup, qualifying for winning the Scottish Cup the year before. Ok, my bad. Still highly impressive of Aberdeen to beat the likes of Bayern Munich. More impressive than winning a eruopa league group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: Ok, my bad. Still highly impressive of Aberdeen to beat the likes of Bayern Munich. More impressive than winning a eruopa league group. i agree it's hugely impressive! just two slightly different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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