Manchester United

[Zatman]

As much as I think Moyes will fail, not even I would pretend that he'd judge a player on one game. 

 

you never know, he might be a member of VillaTalk

[momo]

Man u always starts slow. They will win it this year. Hey, even Man c lost, and against lesser opponents

[AVFCforever1991]

Man u always starts slow. They will win it this year. Hey, even Man c lost, and against lesser opponents

 

I'm willing to bet they don't.

[BOF]

Man u always starts slow. They will win it this year. Hey, even Man c lost, and against lesser opponents

This is one of those myths you only realise is cobblers when you look at their results.

12/13 - Won 9 of their first 11 games and won 4 of their first 5.

11/12 - Won their opening 5 games and got 19pts from 21 (W6 D1 L0).

10/11 - Their first defeat was game 18 (Christmas) although there were quite a few draws in there.

09/10 - Won 5 of their first 6 games.

08/09 - They actually started slowly.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

'Slow start' in Manure terms usually meant grinding out wins until they started gubbing everyone when they gelled.

 

'Slow start' in Moyes terms meant being shite until an inexplicable run of title winning form.

[villa89]

I'm willing to bet they don't.

 

 

Me too, At least one of City or Chelsea will finish above them. I fancy Chelsea to win the league this season.

[Folski]

That Nani thing does slightly beggar belief. I think Rev is right. United's crap transfer window and this being Nani's last year means he benefitted from circumstance. It looked lime he was past his best and that his United career was winding up but now they've committed to him for five years so they obviously intend on using him more than they have recently. Plus I suppose it guarantees them a decent transfer fee if someone comes in for him. That's a fairly big 'if' though.

 

I think Moyes watched Ashley Young against Liverpool and decided no he isnt for us

 

To quote Abe Simpson: "A little from column A, a little from column B"

[blunther]

Ferguson will come out of retirement when moves gets the push. Bobby Charlton as Asst Manager.

 

I hope so. A Man U mate offered me a hundred trillion to one on Fergie being their next manager. I had 0.1p on it, to return £10,000,000,000. I'd have taken 100/1 to be honest.

Edited September 6, 2013 by blunther

[momo]

 

Man u always starts slow. They will win it this year. Hey, even Man c lost, and against lesser opponents

This is one of those myths you only realise is cobblers when you look at their results.

12/13 - Won 9 of their first 11 games and won 4 of their first 5.

11/12 - Won their opening 5 games and got 19pts from 21 (W6 D1 L0).

10/11 - Their first defeat was game 18 (Christmas) although there were quite a few draws in there.

09/10 - Won 5 of their first 6 games.

08/09 - They actually started slowly.

 

Sure...but before that, pre-Abramovich, when they lost to Villa on the opening day, or when they were a lot of points behind Newcastle, but still won the league. Moyes' Man U has lost one game away to Liverpool. One game doesn't make a season (except in La Liga). Maybe they will win the next 10 games, maybe they will lose all of them. Who knows? I still think they have more to offer.

[BOF]

Sure...but before that, pre-Abramovich, when they lost to Villa on the opening day, or when they were a lot of points behind Newcastle, but still won the league. Moyes' Man U has lost one game away to Liverpool. One game doesn't make a season (except in La Liga). Maybe they will win the next 10 games, maybe they will lose all of them. Who knows? I still think they have more to offer.

So by 'always', you meant twice in 20 years. Gotcha

[momo]

 

Sure...but before that, pre-Abramovich, when they lost to Villa on the opening day, or when they were a lot of points behind Newcastle, but still won the league. Moyes' Man U has lost one game away to Liverpool. One game doesn't make a season (except in La Liga). Maybe they will win the next 10 games, maybe they will lose all of them. Who knows? I still think they have more to offer.

So by 'always', you meant twice in 20 years. Gotcha

 

 

 

1992/1993 Lost 2 first games, drew the third. Won the league.

1995/1996 Lost first game to Villa. Won the league.

1996/1997 Won only one of the first four games. Won the league.

1998/1999 Drew the first two games. Won the league.

1999/2000 Drew first game. Won the league. (Ok, this was borderline)

2000/2001 Drew two of the first three games. Won the league.

2002/2003 Drew two of the first three games again. Won the league.

Abramovich time

2007/2008 Drew two first games, lost third. Won the league.

2008/2009 First game draw. Third game lost to Liverpool. Fourth game draw against Chelsea (Does this ring a bell). Won the league.

2012/2013 Lost first game Won the league.

 

This just proves my point. The first three games of the season, they usually suck. Even after Abramovich time, my memory is correct. So yeah, empirical evidence shows that when Manchester United win the league, they usually have a shit start.

[Voinjama]

Does 3 games constitute start of the season though? I think 6, 8 or 10 would be a better yardstick.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

92/93 - After first two losses, went unbeaten for 11 games. (6 were draws, so yes slow start)

95/96 - After loss to Villa, went unbeaten for 10 games. (Only 2 draws, not a slow start)

96/97 - Didn't lose for first 9 games. (Drew 4, Won 5, not slow, but not fast)

98/99 - Only lost one of their first 12.  (Only drew 4, again mixed, but not slow)

99/00 - Unbeaten in first 9 games. (Only drew 3, not slow)

00/01 - Unbeaten in first 7 (3 draws, borderline)

02/03 - Lost 2, Drew 2, Won 2 in first 6 (Slow start)

07/08 - 10 game unbeaten run after first 3 (slow by their standards, but not that slow)

08/09 - 7 game unbeaten run after first 3 (Slow start)

12/13 - Won 4 of first 5 (Not slow)

 

3, possibly 4, slow starts in 20 seasons is not a lot, especially as the first one came in a period when the league was much more open

 

Losing the first game or two is not a slow start, Arsenal haven't has a slow start IMO this season despite losing to us.

 

Also, harking back to Pre-Ambramovich is going back a long way, 10 years is a long time in football and using seasons from 10 years ago to predict how a team will do is silly.

[momo]

Well, that is my point! You can't tell anything after three games. People on here say that this bad start United have had, would never have happened under Ferguson, but I just proved that it actually did happen under Ferguson...it happened almost 10 times!

[BOF]

1995/1996 Lost first game to Villa. Won the league.

1996/1997 Won only one of the first four games. Won the league.

1998/1999 Drew the first two games. Won the league.

1999/2000 Drew first game. Won the league. (Ok, this was borderline)

2000/2001 Drew two of the first three games. Won the league.

2002/2003 Drew two of the first three games again. Won the league.

Abramovich time

2007/2008 Drew two first games, lost third. Won the league.

2008/2009 First game draw. Third game lost to Liverpool. Fourth game draw against Chelsea (Does this ring a bell). Won the league.

2012/2013 Lost first game Won the league.

 

This just proves my point. The first three games of the season, they usually suck. Even after Abramovich time, my memory is correct. So yeah, empirical evidence shows that when Manchester United win the league, they usually have a shit start.

That doesn't prove your point (see Messi post above) and that summing up logic is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that the statement 'Manchester United win the league' is usually true in the Premier League era regardless of how they start their season. And citing the opening fixture on its own as constituting a slow start (95/96) is just twisting things to suit something you've convinced yourself of. But I fear we've drifted from a discussion to a fingers in ears lalalala type chat now so we'll agree to disagree

[momo]

 

1995/1996 Lost first game to Villa. Won the league.

1996/1997 Won only one of the first four games. Won the league.

1998/1999 Drew the first two games. Won the league.

1999/2000 Drew first game. Won the league. (Ok, this was borderline)

2000/2001 Drew two of the first three games. Won the league.

2002/2003 Drew two of the first three games again. Won the league.

Abramovich time

2007/2008 Drew two first games, lost third. Won the league.

2008/2009 First game draw. Third game lost to Liverpool. Fourth game draw against Chelsea (Does this ring a bell). Won the league.

2012/2013 Lost first game Won the league.

 

This just proves my point. The first three games of the season, they usually suck. Even after Abramovich time, my memory is correct. So yeah, empirical evidence shows that when Manchester United win the league, they usually have a shit start.

That doesn't prove your point (see Messi post above) and that summing up logic is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that the statement 'Manchester United win the league' is usually true in the Premier League era regardless of how they start their season. And citing the opening fixture on its own as constituting a slow start (95/96) is just twisting things to suit something you've convinced yourself of. But I fear we've drifted from a discussion to a fingers in ears lalalala type chat now so we'll agree to disagree

 

I don't think my reply was specifically against you, but like I replied just above your post, and a bit above that as well, is that three games is not enough to judge a season. People saying this would not have happened under Ferguson, is just what I was disproving. A start like this three game spell have happened many times before, but it is not enough to tell that it is a bad start.

[BOF]

I don't think my reply was specifically against you, but like I replied just above your post, and a bit above that as well, is that three games is not enough to judge a season. People saying this would not have happened under Ferguson, is just what I was disproving. A start like this three game spell have happened many times before, but it is not enough to tell that it is a bad start.

Gotcha, OK that's a fair point regarding the results. However, this time around you've got to admit it's a little more than just the 3 games on the pitch. In most of those seasons, Fergie had a proven track record. He had earned the right not to be questioned. This current squad, even with the examples you have outlined, do not start this way but it is more than that. It is how they are playing. Liverpool handled them easily. They had no answer for a defensive Chelsea. They made a hilarious balls of the transfer window. This new Man Utd, even ignoring the poor results, are showing worrying signs already and I know plenty of the more-reasonable-type of United fans who are already very nervous about what they are seeing on; and more importantly off; the pitch. The results to date are merely an additional reason to be worried about the broader deterioration and almost amateur way things have gone since SAF left.

[momo]

 

I don't think my reply was specifically against you, but like I replied just above your post, and a bit above that as well, is that three games is not enough to judge a season. People saying this would not have happened under Ferguson, is just what I was disproving. A start like this three game spell have happened many times before, but it is not enough to tell that it is a bad start.

Gotcha, OK that's a fair point regarding the results. However, this time around you've got to admit it's a little more than just the 3 games on the pitch. In most of those seasons, Fergie had a proven track record. He had earned the right not to be questioned. This current squad, even with the examples you have outlined, do not start this way but it is more than that. It is how they are playing. Liverpool handled them easily. They had no answer for a defensive Chelsea. They made a hilarious balls of the transfer window. This new Man Utd, even ignoring the poor results, are showing worrying signs already and I know plenty of the more-reasonable-type of United fans who are already very nervous about what they are seeing on; and more importantly off; the pitch. The results to date are merely an additional reason to be worried about the broader deterioration and almost amateur way things have gone since SAF left.

 

Well, He earned the right after winning in 1992, with a 'bad start'   But seriously, I get what you are saying, it was an amateurish summer. And probably it had something to do with what kind of targets Moyes used to look at when he was at Everton, and what targets he is looking at now. He will get the hang of it eventually or get fired.

[Jon]

I'll be feckin amazed if united win the league this season.

 

I've got them in the group behind the title contenders. Chelsea and Citeh I expect to challenge for the title.

 

I'd then expect Spurs, Arse, United and maybe scouserpool to be fighting for the next slots. Spurs I'd have possible favourutes for 3rd, given their signings and manager. Arse for 4th, as Ozil will be a boost to them. United 5th, scouser 6th.

 

and 5th for United can only be seen as failure. They MAY be planning longer term than this season. You'd hope so, given their abysmal transfer window. How long Moyes gets though is anyone's guess. One thing's for sure though - most 'pundits' don't have them down as winning the title this season, and with good reason.

[BOF]

And if Moyes doesn't play a fit Kagawa behind RVP then he's a retard.  You don't win POTS twice in the Bundesliga before the age of 23 if you're not a bit special.  A trio of Kagawa-Rooney-Nani behind RVP with Carrick and Fellaini sitting would be noice.