Things that piss you off that shouldn't

[tonyh29]

Yes, long multiplication was taught that way and has been taught that way for donkeys. It's what Gove would have been taught and Gove's own school experiences is what makes up the majority of the new curriculum.

Your way of doing it isn't wrong at all. As I said, it's a perfectly good method and it does the trick. The method that we're encouraged to teach is just that though. A method. The calculations involved are just with units. There is no practise in multiplying with tens and therefore the understanding of what you're actually doing isn't there. In the grid, you can clearly see you're multiplying with 10s and units. Then as you get more confident, you don't need the grid anymore.

As I said, it's incredible hard to explain in detail over a forum. Give me 5 minutes in person and you'd understand my point of view (and the point of view of most teachers) far more clearly.

Out if interest how do other countries that leave our schools way behind when it comes to maths and children's understanding of it , do this multiplication ?

[chrisp65]

I couldn't be a taker.

I just don't have it in me.

[snowychap]

As I said, it's incredible hard to explain in detail over a forum. Give me 5 minutes in person and you'd understand my point of view (and the point of view of most teachers) far more clearly.

I think that's fair enough and as I said it probably describes the mental calculation I would make (though my grid may be a little different as it may include things to subtract, too).

Interesting. I'll fully accept that I've been taught something tonight. Good work. Take a holiday (p.s. only a fraction of that is taking the piss!).

[StefanAVFC]

 

Yes, long multiplication was taught that way and has been taught that way for donkeys. It's what Gove would have been taught and Gove's own school experiences is what makes up the majority of the new curriculum.

Your way of doing it isn't wrong at all. As I said, it's a perfectly good method and it does the trick. The method that we're encouraged to teach is just that though. A method. The calculations involved are just with units. There is no practise in multiplying with tens and therefore the understanding of what you're actually doing isn't there. In the grid, you can clearly see you're multiplying with 10s and units. Then as you get more confident, you don't need the grid anymore.

As I said, it's incredible hard to explain in detail over a forum. Give me 5 minutes in person and you'd understand my point of view (and the point of view of most teachers) far more clearly.

Out if interest how do other countries that leave our schools way behind when it comes to maths and children's understanding of it , do this multiplication ?

 

 

I don't believe those other countries leave us behind because of individual methods like my example. I mean, long multiplication is 1 speck on a huge curriculum. I think it's far more to do with the level of respect teachers get in the countries that regularly top the tables and I feel like too much emphasis is put on assessment over here. 'Teach the children this so they can pass that exam'. I mean, the plans to put every child in 10% brackets are madness. Why is that necessary? I honestly feel we put too much pressure on kids far too soon. I'm 50/50 with the whole starting school at 7 thing; as Risso correctly said when it was mentioned before, it can be beneficial to cram info into them as young as possible as they're like a sponge at that age. But it's the pressure that kids are put under from day 1 that leaves us lagging, IMO.

[StefanAVFC]

Apologies all for going OTT with the maths. It is just something I'm really passionate about and I love teaching it.

[tonyh29]

Yes, long multiplication was taught that way and has been taught that way for donkeys. It's what Gove would have been taught and Gove's own school experiences is what makes up the majority of the new curriculum.

Your way of doing it isn't wrong at all. As I said, it's a perfectly good method and it does the trick. The method that we're encouraged to teach is just that though. A method. The calculations involved are just with units. There is no practise in multiplying with tens and therefore the understanding of what you're actually doing isn't there. In the grid, you can clearly see you're multiplying with 10s and units. Then as you get more confident, you don't need the grid anymore.

As I said, it's incredible hard to explain in detail over a forum. Give me 5 minutes in person and you'd understand my point of view (and the point of view of most teachers) far more clearly.

Out if interest how do other countries that leave our schools way behind when it comes to maths and children's understanding of it , do this multiplication ?

I don't believe those other countries leave us behind because of individual methods like my example. I mean, long multiplication is 1 speck on a huge curriculum. I think it's far more to do with the level of respect teachers get in the countries that regularly top the tables and I feel like too much emphasis is put on assessment over here. 'Teach the children this so they can pass that exam'. I mean, the plans to put every child in 10% brackets are madness. Why is that necessary? I honestly feel we put too much pressure on kids far too soon. I'm 50/50 with the whole starting school at 7 thing; as Risso correctly said when it was mentioned before, it can be beneficial to cram info into them as young as possible as they're like a sponge at that age. But it's the pressure that kids are put under from day 1 that leaves us lagging, IMO.

I thought the report said that at age 10 uk children were around parr with the rest of the world but by the age of 16 they are around 2 years behind other countries being compared against in the study ...

I agree that children are taught to pass exams rather than actually learn ... I thought I watched some school documentary type programme a few years back where Gove stated he wanted to end this particular formula and get children actually learning

Guess from what you are saying Gove has changed his mind

[snowychap]

I couldn't be a taker.

I just don't have it in me.

 

I'll set 'em up...

[StefanAVFC]

Again, I feel that could easily been down to respect. How many 11-16 year olds honestly respect their teacher?

 

Yeah, exams (at secondary level anyway) seem to be more about fact retention. Did you see the original proposed history curriculum by any chance? It received such uproar that it was changed. It was chronological so it had year 1's doing about the Stone Age.

 

A couple of months back on 5live, I heard that he was bringing in 10% brackets so you can see where your child is in the country. That's great for the top 10%, what about the rest? I need to find a source for that but bed is calling me.

[snowychap]

Gove stated he wanted to end this particular formula and get children actually learnin

 

 

But didn't he want to 'get them learning' by rote? And not get them 'understanding' (i.e. actually learning)?

 

[snowychap]

...

 

A couple of months back on 5live, I heard that he was bringing in 10% brackets so you can see where your child is in the country. That's great for the top 10%, what about the rest? I need to find a source for that but bed is calling me.

I remember talk of that, too.

[tonyh29]

Gove stated he wanted to end this particular formula and get children actually learnin

But didn't he want to 'get them learning' by rote? And not get them 'understanding' (i.e. actually learning)?

I believe so , though I believe that rote learning and activity based learning could compliment each other rather than a one or the other route

[snowychap]

I believe so , though I believe that rote learning and activity based learning could compliment each other rather than a one or the other route

Well rote has its place but it's a very small place and it hardly constitutes 'learning'.

It seemed to me that Gove wanted people to be Latin scholars by repeating (ad inf.) amo, amas, amat, &c..

[leviramsey]

[darrenm]

My 9 year old kid is a bit of mathematical genius. He's always had excellent natural mental agility when working with numbers. The teachers force him to show workings out which slows him right down because he's already got the answer but then has to work out how everyone else will do it and write it down

What a load of rubbish.

[tonyh29]

My 9 year old kid is a bit of mathematical genius. He's always had excellent natural mental agility when working with numbers. The teachers force him to show workings out which slows him right down because he's already got the answer but then has to work out how everyone else will do it and write it down

What a load of rubbish.

Was the same when I was at school , think you could almost pass the maths o level even if you got every answer wrong as the emphasis was on showing the " working out " ... Ok probably a bit of an exaggeration but they didn't like it if you just worked out the answer in your head and stuck it down

[Jon]

Teachers do FAR more than their contracted hours. Far more. Comfortably 55-60 hours a week.

 

 

 

That is a sweepingly inaccurate statement IMO fella. SOME teachers may do 'far more' than their contracted hours. But that's by no means the norm, unless you can hit me with empirical proof of the hours teachers actually do? My wife is a secondary school teacher. My mom was a teacher (primary school).  My ex was a primary school teacher. My sister is a Maths teacher at a secondary school. My sister does rather little outside of her contracted hours. Ditto my Mom, from what i can recall, as she had a family to look after. My wife does a reasonable amount more, but not the 55-60 hours you're suggesting, and she is one of the more 'committed' ones.

 

Teachgers, if they want, can get by by doing the bare minimum - their teaching/marking hours (they get frees too, to do marking and planning). Yes, the 'good' teachers can plough in many more hours, and rack up some decent weekly hours outside their contracted ones - just like other workers in other industries. But I'm not sure you can call teachers doing 55-60 hours per week the norm, because in my experience, it isn't. Far from it.

[StefanAVFC]

Of course I'm going to defend the profession though. I talk from my own experiences as well as my experiences with mentors and teachers on the OTP (outstanding teacher program). They don't have a life.

 

Apologies if you read it as a generalisation. It wasn't intended like that.

 

(on topic, the spell checker trying to correct generalisation with z  )

[Jon]

I think it's a great profession personally. I'd loved, looking back on it, to have gone into teaching.

 

Can be very rewarding, and can be very taxing and draining. I don't begrudge them their holiday at all. It's needed IMO. 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Teachers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon]

Teachers.

 

 

 

 

???