Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[bobzy]

9 hours ago, Rodders said:

They can not support the club. It's football it's just a past time. It's meaningless compared to proper issues. Transport and the basics of life is a complex area but that's no excuse to say anything goes with luxuries. There's no necessity to watch football. So no sympathy. **** all their fans. Absolute rocket polishers

Said it before, but the vast majority of Aston Villa fans would continue to support Aston Villa if we were in the same boat.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I'm not judging it on ethics

I'm judging it solely on what their money means for football, it's a **** terrible thing it's the death of football - what makes me hate them though is that because the PL is a product and their business no one will call it out for what it is and instead does the opposite and tries to make out like city and newcastle are brilliant

Again that's not even factoring in where the money comes from, this money could be clean and I'd still hate what modern football is

So... are we the same?

[sne]

27 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Said it before, but the vast majority of Aston Villa fans would continue to support Aston Villa if we were in the same boat.

Would you?

I'd find something else to focus my passion on but I'd still always be a Villa fan. Owners comes and goes. While they were here thou I just wouldn't care like I did before. I'd watch some games no doubt but only if there wasn't something else to do. Rather watch Sampdoria in Serie B than watch a MBS political tool play in the CL.

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

Would you?

I'd find something else to focus my passion on but I'd still always be a Villa fan. Owners comes and goes. While they were here thou I just wouldn't care like I did before. I'd watch some games no doubt but only if there wasn't something else to do. Rather watch Sampdoria in Serie B than watch a MBS political tool play in the CL.

Tough one to answer as we're not in that situation.  I think it's easy to take the moral high ground when you don't have an actual decision to make.

That said, I already follow Newport County and, loosely, Solihull Moors as my "2nd" and "3rd" teams and am becoming more disillusioned with top flight football, so I imagine I'd just be pushed further away from it.  Who knows, though.

[sne]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Tough one to answer as we're not in that situation.  I think it's easy to take the moral high ground when you don't have an actual decision to make.

That said, I already follow Newport County and, loosely, Solihull Moors as my "2nd" and "3rd" teams and am becoming more disillusioned with top flight football, so I imagine I'd just be pushed further away from it.  Who knows, though.

I have a team in Sweden (that absolutely sucks these days) and I've been a somewhat casual Sampdoria supporter (they are even worse ) since the mid 80's so I have options. I also have a soft spot for Real Betis and they are actually OK.

I've been a passionate Villa fan since I was 4 or 5 thou. Typical glory hunter who jumped on the bandwagon in the early 80's  

[Rodders]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Said it before, but the vast majority of Aston Villa fans would continue to support Aston Villa if we were in the same boat.

Oh I agree. And I'd also lose all respect for those who carried on. There are more important things than football and the inability of millions to see that is grim, and bodes pretty badly for so many reasons. I don't think there is something in the geordie water that makes them more disposed than other fans to going along with this, but they're the ones who have and will be the.focus of my contempt. Football is a choice. Choosing to carry on = an endorsement of or at best a sublime indifference to racism, sexism, war crimes homophobia etc depending on which evil is in control of your club. 

 

**** go watch lower league football  find other hobbies. I don't doubt it would be bloody hard to break a lifetime habit that may be full of ritual but, if these rocket polishers don't stop you I don't know if it's possible to find a reason. I want to ask Newcastle fans, I'd one of the playing or coaching staff murdered or raped a family member would they stop? No. I'm trying to think if there's anything that would stop some of these cult psychopaths from their ritual and realised that they would accept anything. Like Trump shooting someone on time square, I think the Saudis could draw up the gallows and execute their undesirables in the middle of St James Park and the fans wouldn't bat an eyelid. They'd rationalise it somehow or engage in some repellent form of whataboutery. The Saudis have a loyal committed fan base of brits now going out to bat for them, sportswash and rationalise the grim realities of life for women gays atheists etc. 

It will always remain grim, and I will always despise each fan who goes. I've already cut off contact with an old school friend because of it. Disgusting cowardice and ineptitude, revealing worthless characters.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Rodders

[VillaChris]

Didn't FC United always used to get plenty of stick on here or am I imaging that?

Agree with Bobzy. We'd be getting 40-50k crowds with Saudi ownership, don't worry about that.

What I dislike is Newcastle fans dressing up in robes and effectively becoming mouthpieces and doing the regime's "Sportswashing" for them. 

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

So... are we the same?

Think so, agree on villa fans being no different if it was us too

A huge portion of the fan base, theirs ours anyone's simply won't care

[JPJCB]

Just watching the MoTD highlights of their game against city yesterday. Foden got loads of joy dropping into central pockets of space between their midfield and back four. Makes me wonder how much more of a fight we would have have put up had Buendia or even Ramsey been fit since their game is somewhat similar- that was a big part of how we thumped them at VP. Instead we had Bailey and diaby- who like to stretch the play- and McGinn who likes to come toward the ball so didn’t really have that gameplan 

 

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, Rodders said:

Oh I agree. And I'd also lose all respect for those who carried on. There are more important things than football and the inability of millions to see that is grim, and bodes pretty badly for so many reasons. I don't think there is something in the geordie water that makes them more disposed than other fans to going along with this, but they're the ones who have and will be the.focus of my contempt. Football is a choice. Choosing to carry on = an endorsement of or at best a sublime indifference to racism, sexism, war crimes homophobia etc depending on which evil is in control of your club. 

 

**** go watch lower league football  find other hobbies. I don't doubt it would be bloody hard to break a lifetime habit that may be full of ritual but, if these rocket polishers don't stop you I don't know if it's possible to find a reason. I want to ask Newcastle fans, I'd one of the playing or coaching staff murdered or raped a family member would they stop? No. I'm trying to think if there's anything that would stop some of these cult psychopaths from their ritual and realised that they would accept anything. Like Trump shooting someone on time square, I think the Saudis could draw up the gallows and execute their undesirables in the middle of St James Park and the fans wouldn't bat an eyelid. They'd rationalise it somehow or engage in some repellent form of whataboutery. The Saudis have a loyal committed fan base of brits now going out to bat for them, sportswash and rationalise the grim realities of life for women gays atheists etc. 

It will always remain grim, and I will always despise each fan who goes. I've already cut off contact with an old school friend because of it. Disgusting cowardice and ineptitude, revealing worthless characters.

My Mum is a Geordie, and has been a long term outspoken critic of Saudi Arabia (and many other countries, to be fair) - particularly on their treatment of women. She was absolutely gutted when the Saudis took over Newcastle, but the club still represents home for her. It’s her city, the football club is the heartbeat of it and it’s meant a lot to her family and friends over her lifetime.

Is she a cult psychopath or just a fan of a football team who, once or twice a week,  give (possible) entertainment and a break from “normal life”?

I think cutting off friends because they support a football team is incredibly sad. 

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

My Mum is a Geordie, and has been a long term outspoken critic of Saudi Arabia (and many other countries, to be fair) - particularly on their treatment of women. She was absolutely gutted when the Saudis took over Newcastle, but the club still represents home for her. It’s her city, the football club is the heartbeat of it and it’s meant a lot to her family and friends over her lifetime.

Is she a cult psychopath or just a fan of a football team who, once or twice a week,  give (possible) entertainment and a break from “normal life”?

I think cutting off friends because they support a football team is incredibly sad. 

Do you take the piss out of her for it though?

I've got a mate who's a life long Newcastle fan, he's fairly casual, never been to games or anything, he obviously has no control over it, he's not a gloater or anything either, not one of these who's likely to over hear me and a wolves supporting mate chipping away at each other and chirp up about Newcastles billions - but I'll happily chip away at him

Weirdly man utd or Liverpool supporting mates I've got no interest in, no banter what so ever with them, my Newcastle mate, my Leeds brother, my Everton mates I'll go at them lot all day long

Its not as simple as supporting Newcastle suddenly makes you a bad person or that they should all walk away, it's a completely unrealistic view of it

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Do you take the piss out of her for it though?

I've got a mate who's a life long Newcastle fan, he's fairly casual, never been to games or anything, he obviously has no control over it, he's not a gloater or anything either, not one of these who's likely to over hear me and a wolves supporting mate chipping away at each other and chirp up about Newcastles billions - but I'll happily chip away at him

Weirdly man utd or Liverpool supporting mates I've got no interest in, no banter what so ever with them, my Newcastle mate, my Leeds brother, my Everton mates I'll go at them lot all day long

Its not as simple as supporting Newcastle suddenly makes you a bad person or that they should all walk away, it's a completely unrealistic view of it

Not massively - she's my Mum   I call Newcastle "the Saudis", but it's fairly pointless going on and on about it to her.  Would be different with a mate, though I think I'd feel the same after a while.

Aston Villa were top of the "hate league" whenever that whole thing was reported; barely mentioned on here let alone people thinking of not supporting the club because "our fans are racist".

 

Possibly not true, but I think a lot of the outrage is because Newcastle are being relatively successful with it.  If they were circling the drain, people would care a lot less.  (Similar with with Man City FFP breaches vs, say, Everton).

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Not massively - she's my Mum   I call Newcastle "the Saudis", but it's fairly pointless going on and on about it to her.  Would be different with a mate, though I think I'd feel the same after a while.

Aston Villa were top of the "hate league" whenever that whole thing was reported; barely mentioned on here let alone people thinking of not supporting the club because "our fans are racist".

Possibly not true, but I think a lot of the outrage is because Newcastle are being relatively successful with it.  If they were circling the drain, people would care a lot less.  (Similar with with Man City FFP breaches vs, say, Everton).

Yeah we were, when they officially made it a football related crime for racial abuse online villa had the most arrests, our social media fan base is as bad as anyone's, I quit twitter because of it all

[Mark Albrighton]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Not massively - she's my Mum   I call Newcastle "the Saudis", but it's fairly pointless going on and on about it to her.  Would be different with a mate, though I think I'd feel the same after a while.

Aston Villa were top of the "hate league" whenever that whole thing was reported; barely mentioned on here let alone people thinking of not supporting the club because "our fans are racist".

 

Possibly not true, but I think a lot of the outrage is because Newcastle are being relatively successful with it.  If they were circling the drain, people would care a lot less.  (Similar with with Man City FFP breaches vs, say, Everton).

Yeah if someone cheats and they get away with it, that’s more annoying than someone who cheats and doesn’t get away with it.

That being said, Everton, while their cheating hasn’t yielded the success Man City have had, their continued avoidance of relegation will be extremely galling for the various sides who went down who abided by the rules and subsequently I think supporters of those clubs view what Everton have done much more negatively than supporters of clubs in a similar position to our own.

Everton probably also benefit because, however much they’ve cheated, Man City have done it ten fold so comparatively speaking they don’t look as bad.

[Genie]

It’s so exciting having these owners in the league 

Quote

Saudi border guards are accused of the mass killing of migrants along the Yemeni border in a new report by Human Rights Watch.

The report says hundreds of people, many of them Ethiopians who cross war-torn Yemen to reach Saudi Arabia, have been shot dead.

Migrants have told the BBC they had limbs severed by gunfire and saw bodies left on the trails.

link

[sne]

35 minutes ago, Genie said:

It’s so exciting having these owners in the league 

link

Built nice roads/skyscrapers thou

[The_Steve]

Great their owners are media friendly too and embracing LGBT communities and not stopping it being published in the media they fund 

John Lubbock, a freelance writer, said that he and two fellow writers were commissioned by Vice’s news division earlier this year to write a piece about young Saudis campaigning for transgender rights. Their reporting claimed the Saudi state is helping families to harass and threaten transgender Saudis based overseas.

Editors in Vice’s news division actively welcomed the piece, Lubbock said, as it fitted with the outlet’s track record of reporting on LGBTQ+ rights, autocratic regimes and the Middle East. However, publication of the article was repeatedly postponed and then cancelled at the last minute. Multiple sources at Vice said it was pulled after a high-level intervention by senior Vice managers, who said its publication could pose a threat to the safety of the company’s staff working in Saudi Arabia.

[Stevo985]

23 hours ago, bobzy said:

Said it before, but the vast majority of Aston Villa fans would continue to support Aston Villa if we were in the same boat.

Agreed.

We can all pretend we wouldn't, but we would (or at least the vast majority would)

We might not be happy about the ownership, but we'd still support Villa

[robby b]

I swear, that as a kind of boycott, I would no longer support Aston Villa if we were taken over by Saudi owners. That would not be easy for me, I'd miss Aston Villa a lot as it's been a big part of my life, but there are things in life that are more important than football and sometimes we should take a stand. (And to help me to do that I could get more into my 2nd and 3rd teams and international teams). Nothing lasts forever anyway. 

The wide-ranging abuse of women's rights in Saudi Arabia is my main reason.

Misogyny United can be even prouder today:

"Saudi border guards are accused of the mass killing of migrants along the Yemeni border in a new report by Human Rights Watch."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-66545787

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by robby b

[blandy]

2 hours ago, robby b said:

I swear, that as a kind of boycott, I would no longer support Aston Villa if we were taken over by Saudi owners.

That's fine. Admirable even.

The reality for most people is different. There's a few things to think about for the Newcastle fans. I'm guessing that most, if not all of them supported Newcastle before the take over. So to suddenly stop and lose something that gives pleasure and enjoyment and social life and all the rest of that stuff to their lives isn't a straightforward, er black and white issue.

And if they did stop, what does it actually achieve? Basically nothing. It's a commendable but futile act.

What would you do if your employer was taken over by Saudi? would you resign? What about if your employer is a subcontractor to, say, one of the companies that sells arms to Saudi, or supports Saudi business in some way? Would you boycott a business that sells products to Saudi - Land-Rover, or Jaguar, say? Would you write to those companies and say how you object to them dealing with a repressive regime? And if not, why not, when you would give up your season ticket for the same reason?

And the flip side is plenty of Newcastle fans protested against Ashley for various reasons from "Cockney Mafia" through to Lack of funds, but now they've got another "mafia" and loads of money, barely a peep.

So if you look at it through the lens of "this is my enjoyment and me stopping will make no difference" then you end up with one outcome, and if you look at it through the lens of "this is a pretty horrible regime" then you end up with another outcome. I guess most will maybe see both those aspects as holding water and see both sides of the coin, but criticising people for (not) doing something symbolic about their club's ownership, over which they have no control, is kind of modern life.