Bolitics UKIP Nutters

[peterms]

I have to disagree here

 

He didn't say "all women are slags " or any other outrageous statement  .. the 2 women made a quip about a previous statement he had made and he made a light hearted jest back at them  ..one which they laughed at

 

now I could sterotype here and make a judgement about the type of woman likely to be present at a UKIP meeting , but lets assume they were just 2 ordinary women who liked the banter

 

where is the issue in that ??

 

The issue is that he's not some geezer having a laugh down the pub in a private chat, he's a senior politician at his party's highest-profile event.

 

Either he doesn't understand, or doesn't care, what damage he has done to his own party.  Neither of these two possibilities would be acceptable to any political party, even Ukip.

[tonyh29]

I have to disagree here

He didn't say "all women are slags " or any other outrageous statement .. the 2 women made a quip about a previous statement he had made and he made a light hearted jest back at them ..one which they laughed at

now I could sterotype here and make a judgement about the type of woman likely to be present at a UKIP meeting , but lets assume they were just 2 ordinary women who liked the banter

where is the issue in that ??

The issue is that he's not some geezer having a laugh down the pub in a private chat, he's a senior politician at his party's highest-profile event.

Either he doesn't understand, or doesn't care, what damage he has done to his own party. Neither of these two possibilities would be acceptable to any political party, even Ukip.

So politicians have to be humourless grumps with no soul? Explains Gordon Brown I suppose but no , not for me .... If I wanted to be offended by everything I'd follow Stephen Fry on twitter and do what he tells me

[blandy]

As you say, Tony, he's clearly living on Planet bonkers. That's all anyone really needs to know. that's UKIP all over. On planet tube.

[R.I.C.O.]

 

So politicians have to be humourless grumps with no soul? Explains Gordon Brown I suppose but no , not for me .... If I wanted to be offended by everything I'd follow Stephen Fry on twitter and do what he tells me

 

 

"...the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the niggers and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots."

• Stewart Lee. From "Heresy", BBC Radio 4, 16th May 2007

[peterms]

So politicians have to be humourless grumps with no soul? Explains Gordon Brown I suppose but no , not for me .... If I wanted to be offended by everything I'd follow Stephen Fry on twitter and do what he tells me

No, not at all.  They do however have to show some awareness of the world around them, the presence of media, and the possible effect of their actions.

 

Look at it another way.  Do you think he really doesn't understand that there is a difference between a public role and a private role, and that things can be said and done in a private role which are either inappropriate, damaging, or just wrong in a public role?  Does anyone at all not understand that?

[tonyh29]

So politicians have to be humourless grumps with no soul? Explains Gordon Brown I suppose but no , not for me .... If I wanted to be offended by everything I'd follow Stephen Fry on twitter and do what he tells me

"...the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the niggers and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots."

• Stewart Lee. From "Heresy", BBC Radio 4, 16th May 2007

Not really sure why you are quoting me when I never used the term political correctness gone mad in my posts and that isn't the point I've argued

Hadn't heard about that slogan being used before ...Interesting / shocking that the MP who used it actually won against all expectation as well ...

[Awol]

Godfrey Bloom is a complete chod and Farage would probably like to shoot him right about now. 

 

If he did and I saw it, I wouldn't grass him up.

[thetrees]

So politicians have to be humourless grumps with no soul? Explains Gordon Brown I suppose but no , not for me .... If I wanted to be offended by everything I'd follow Stephen Fry on twitter and do what he tells me

 

"...the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the niggers and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots."

• Stewart Lee. From "Heresy", BBC Radio 4, 16th May 2007

A very effective statement, some of the 'facts' within smelling of one man's left wing fantasy.

Had he quoted it back a decade, so he was a 4 year old in the 60s and at school in the 70s, it may be slightly more believable.

And, of course, the suggestion of a right wing school teacher in any era is verging on the preposterous

[villaguy]

Some aspects of political correctness are beneficial maybe, and no doubt taking that stance makes people feel morally correct and respectable citizens. However things have gone a little bit over the top in the UK, we are now so nice that we are terrified to say how we feel. The only thing that being British is these days seems to be being nice, and this will have huge consequences for the future of the UK. I think in the future when the white British UK demographic is in the minority, which is predicted by 2070, those people in the future will think what happened to the UK. I'm not racist, although I accept this point could be taken as such, I think we are being invaded through the back door because of our own 'good manners'. It can be seen as a weakness to others. Here's the big question, do you think our grand children will be looking back thanking us for being so politically correct? I like the multi-cultural feel to the UK, but if the minorities are having many children per couple and white people on average don't, things are going to become lop-sided. You travel the world and meet new cultures and ask them if they've been to the UK, it's amusing/distressing that they say that to meet the British, you should go elsewhere other than London.  

 

I guess the major issue for me is birth control, if you know much about environmental issues and global challenges, exponential population growth is the biggest threat to the world. Yet what is being done about it? F*ck all. I've heard it mentioned by politicians before but it's quickly turned around and put down because it's 'against peoples rights'. What about the rights of the future generations? Shouldn't they have rights to a diverse environment that hasn't been destroyed?

Edited September 21, 2013 by villaguy

[peterms]

What a novel idea of Britishness.  Our defining characteristic is that we're so timid, so scared of saying or doing anything that we're being swamped by alien cultures.  Well, apart from the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans, the Huguenots, the Jews, the Irish and others who now comprise large parts of "the white British UK demographic", I suppose.

 

I'm sure large parts of the world that we've invaded would struggle to understand this idea of Britishness as something meek and timid, frightened of causing the slightest offence.  Like we're standing politely in a queue, getting shouldered aside by rude incomers, so concerned about the feelings of others that we won't say "Oh, excuse me...".  What an utter misreading of our history, our culture, and how we are perceived by others.

 

The issue for you seems to be white and non-white.  Is it because you're so oppressed by the intimidatory nature of political correctness that you need to express this while assuring us that you're not racist?

 

And global population growth is the result of people being too reticent to raise it because doing so would be "against people's rights"?  My flabber is well and truly gasted.

[colhint]

however this got brought up I don't know or care. But the point about global population is massive and needs to be discussed. 

[peterms]

however this got brought up I don't know or care. But the point about global population is massive and needs to be discussed. 

 

Yes.  New thread?

[villaguy]

What a novel idea of Britishness.  Our defining characteristic is that we're so timid, so scared of saying or doing anything that we're being swamped by alien cultures.  Well, apart from the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans, the Huguenots, the Jews, the Irish and others who now comprise large parts of "the white British UK demographic", I suppose.

 

I'm sure large parts of the world that we've invaded would struggle to understand this idea of Britishness as something meek and timid, frightened of causing the slightest offence.  Like we're standing politely in a queue, getting shouldered aside by rude incomers, so concerned about the feelings of others that we won't say "Oh, excuse me...".  What an utter misreading of our history, our culture, and how we are perceived by others.

 

The issue for you seems to be white and non-white.  Is it because you're so oppressed by the intimidatory nature of political correctness that you need to express this while assuring us that you're not racist?

 

And global population growth is the result of people being too reticent to raise it because doing so would be "against people's rights"?  My flabber is well and truly gasted.

Firstly I was in a 4 year relationship with an girl of foreign race, I wouldn't call myself racist, just concerned that a country that I'm resident will be changed beyond recognition without people giving a damn just like yourself. Unless of course you're just trying to look 'politically correct'. It's a response I expected (being labelled incorrectly) and exactly why few people openly discuss these kind of issues as in a far lefty environment it would be classed as politically incorrect.

 

Global population growth isn't a result of people being to reticent you're correct. However, acting to control the issue is! That is the point, Islam countries don't believe in contraception, which with modern knowledge is a ridiculous stance to take on the issue.

Edited September 21, 2013 by villaguy

[bickster]

Ah the old I'm not racist because my GF's a different race comeback.

If I had a pound for every time I'd seen that...

[Dr_Pangloss]

Derp.

[Awol]

 

Global population growth isn't a result of people being to reticent you're correct. However, acting to control the issue is! That is the point, Islam countries don't believe in contraception, which with modern knowledge is a ridiculous stance to take on the issue.

 

The same stance as the Catholic Church.  The common thread being religious doctrine suited to a world several millennia ago when the global population was an estimated 200 million, not a world where the population has trebled in 60 years to over 7 billion.

 

That said, the key driver of over population is poverty. People in poorer and less developed countries have big families because in many cases they don't expect the children to reach adulthood.  

 

Attenborough was talking about this at the tail end of an interview on R4 a few days ago but was hastily cut off by a nervous presenter, however the core of his argument is spot on: How long can a finite ecosystem support an ever expanding population before the ecosystem itself and the biodiversity required to sustain it is overwhelmed? 

 

Edit: Just to add, Muslim countries make up a relatively modest amount of global population, the two monsters population wise are China and India which have minority (but still huge In India's case) Muslim populations. The population explosion in China is directly attributable to the policies of Mao in the 1950's when he declared that the only way to win a nuclear war was to have more survivors than anyone else.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Awol

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

If women have control of their own lives, population will be fine.

 

As things stand too many countries still treat women as baby-making second class citizens.

 

Edit: And that includes many countries in the West. Shit, women here don't have control over their lives thanks to the abortion laws. It's bollocks.

Edited September 21, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[leviramsey]

Anybody who thinks there's a global population problem should take action by sticking a shotgun in their mouth.

[villaguy]

Anybody who thinks there's a global population problem should take action by sticking a shotgun in their mouth.

Anybody who thinks there isn't a problem with uncontrolled population growth needs to get educated

[AVFCforever1991]

Overpopulation is a myth

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsAracLBCxI