tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Gaining votes using fear of an non-existent threat while generalising and marginalising other people is sickening and everybody who voted for them is either stupid or ignorant. For a while i thought you were talking about the Labour party .... 60-70% * of people don’t bother voting , I'd counter argue that they were the stupid ones but seriously , and I genuinely don't mean this as a personal attack on you , your statement is almost as bonkers as the VT smugness over what paper someone reads ... read the Mail and you are a thick moron but read the Guardian and you are some of form intellectual genius .. (My teacher won Mastermind and he read the daily mail , so how do you like them apples VT ) People can vote for who they want , you may not agree , but hey thats the price for living in a democracy ...or shall we just remove the right to vote from anyone that doesn't agree with the left and be done with ? As an aside If people can say ( and they have here on VT ) that their MP is doing a great job for his community and is really good at what he does .. but that they wouldn't vote for him because he is a Tory ..doesn't that also make them stupid / ignorant ? For the record the other parties all seems to be saying “We know there is a serious problem, but…” ... so on that basis the other parties seem to be playing on the same fears that UKIP are ... * I didn't vote so I'm one of the stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Tony voting for a party based on one issue that isn't (as blandy put better than me, as I admit I was engaging in hyperbole) really important is either stupid (because you KNOW their other policies yet choose to vote them) or ignorant. (you don't know their other policies and vote based on immigration) It may be a bit harsh but it's fair IMO. Immigration is such a tiny portion of our population and it's easy to argue that immigrants bring far more positives than negatives to the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) I actually hate UKIP and I don't really hate things. Gaining votes using fear of an non-existent threat while generalising and marginalising other people is sickening and everybody who voted for them is either stupid or ignorant. The problem is that it's this kind of attitude which helps them get support in the first place. I don't agree with a lot of their policies and I don't like their general tone but you can't just label everyone that votes for them ignorant or stupid. Well, you can do that but I don't think it's true nor does it do any good really. Edited May 29, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Tony voting for a party based on one issue that isn't (as blandy put better than me, as I admit I was engaging in hyperbole) really important is either stupid (because you KNOW their other policies yet choose to vote them) or ignorant. (you don't know their other policies and vote based on immigration) It may be a bit harsh but it's fair IMO. Immigration is such a tiny portion of our population and it's easy to argue that immigrants bring far more positives than negatives to the country. Another factor as to why people are voting for them is because simply put, they don't want to vote for anybody else. I think voting in spite of other parties is worse than not voting at all, IMO, which is why I didn't vote. I know people who voted UKIP simply because they're the only party they've seen advertised, the only party that has bothered to put anything through their letter box. I also know people who voted UKIP because they didn't want to vote for Labour or the Tories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I wouldn't vote for the Tories because they are called 'Conservatives' and I hate conservatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Conservatives - Tories ... must be why I've always hated conservatories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Tony voting for a party based on one issue that isn't (as blandy put better than me, as I admit I was engaging in hyperbole) really important is either stupid (because you KNOW their other policies yet choose to vote them) or ignorant. (you don't know their other policies and vote based on immigration) It may be a bit harsh but it's fair IMO. Immigration is such a tiny portion of our population and it's easy to argue that immigrants bring far more positives than negatives to the country. i said before though , Michael Howard made immigration a key issue in 2005 and got trounced , ok there were other factors in that ( something of the night about him etc) .. fast forward to 2010 and the TV debates and you had all 3 parties telling us how tough they would be on immigration .. we even had Super Nick talking about localised controlled immigration , for which he got ridiculed , quite rightly , passport control on the M1 anyone .. So i think you have your head in the sand a little if you don't think it is an issue for more than just right wing nutters /stupid or ignorant people .. The problem IMO is the other parties just play populists policies ( heck Milliband has tried to turn it into an art-form , find a bandwagon jump on it and milk it for votes don't worry about the stupidity \ hypocrisy in what he says ) they saw there were votes in immigration so Dave comes up with a policy , Ed apologies for the previous govt getting it wrong etc and all promise to do better ... except we've heard nothing but broken promises from these people time and time again ... I don't think any of the main players mean what they say and nor did a lot of voters it appears and so voters for Labour and conservative switched votes to UKIP because they rightly or wrongly , do see it as an issue ... I've seen many a rational and liberal friend going on about immigrants , whilst forgetting that within their circle of friends they have an Indian , Chinese , Italian friend or whatever .. they aren't racists , nutjobs or gasp Daily Mail readers they are just normal people .. but we had a recession , people like to lash out , find someone to blame and so on true it was 27% of the 35% of people that bothered to vote that UKIP picked up , what happens when they pickup 27% of the 70% of people that start to vote ? will they still all be stupid or ignorant ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Oh don't get me wrong I dislike all politicians. It's an issue because people are fed bollocks that immigrants are ruining te country by popular media. I stand by my initial statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Oh don't get me wrong I dislike all politicians. It's an issue because people are fed bollocks that immigrants are ruining te country by popular media. I stand by my initial statement. ah the old media are to blame line which media site did you read that idea on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 1 example of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Were these people ignorant and stupid when they voted for the Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, etc, etc? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 1 example of many. that wasn't what I asked though ... I asked which media outlet told you that people are being fed bollocks , you were after all saying that people weren't capable of forming an opinion for themselves ( as well as stupid and ignorant ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 1 example of many. I don't think anyone would disagree with you that the Sun is a rag that spouts ignorant bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 1 example of many. I don't think anyone would disagree with you that the Sun is a rag that spouts ignorant bullshit. no argument from me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 1 example of many. I don't think anyone would disagree with you that the Sun is a rag that spouts ignorant bullshit. It's also one of the best selling newspapers in the country. Tony, many people believe what they read in the newspapers. It seems daft but it's true. Were these people ignorant and stupid when they voted for the Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, etc, etc? Clearly, because Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems are a 1 policy party as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Were these people ignorant and stupid when they voted for the Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, etc, etc? Clearly, because Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems are a 1 policy party as well I'm not overly familiar with UKIP policy so I went and looked at their web site ... I saw more than one policy on it tbf .. no tax on minimum wage , scrap HS2 for example I couldn't vouch for how sane those policies are but it would be like branding the Greens a one policy party because everything they say is bonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 29, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2014 I wouldn't vote for the Tories because they are called 'Conservatives' and I hate conservatism. I can still remember saying - aged about eight - "I wouldn't vote Labour because 'labour' means 'work', and I hate work". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I wouldn't vote for the Tories because they are called 'Conservatives' and I hate conservatism. I can still remember saying - aged about eight - "I wouldn't vote Labour because 'labour' means 'work', and I hate work". not any more you don't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 29, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2014 I wouldn't vote for the Tories because they are called 'Conservatives' and I hate conservatism. I can still remember saying - aged about eight - "I wouldn't vote Labour because 'labour' means 'work', and I hate work". not any more you don't Oh, the missus keeps suggesting I should get a part-time job, so I have to be vigilant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Were these people ignorant and stupid when they voted for the Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, etc, etc? Clearly, because Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems are a 1 policy party as well I'm not overly familiar with UKIP policy so I went and looked at their web site ... I saw more than one policy on it tbf .. no tax on minimum wage , scrap HS2 for example I couldn't vouch for how sane those policies are but it would be like branding the Greens a one policy party because everything they say is bonkers http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25879302 Glad he had so much faith in them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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