Bolitics UKIP Nutters

[bickster]

I voted for UKIP as i believe that the EU is corrupt and a complete waste of time, the Human Rights Act is only for criminals and dodgy immigrants and also immigration must be curtailed from all countries in the world!!

 

And here we have a prime example of ignorance

 

The European Convention on Human Rights (the "Human Rights Act" to which you refer) has absolutely diddlybloodysquat to do with the EU. The signatories to this are the member states of the Council of Europe of which there are currently 47. It was first drafted in 1950 and fully ratified in 1953. thats 4 whole years before the Treaty of Rome which saw the birth of the EEC and it has 19 more countries signed up to it than currently belong to the EU. As new countries emerge and wish to join the Council of Europe, they must agree to sign up to and ratify the ECHR at the earliest opportunity. I think by now you might have realised you wasted your vote on this as not one political Party has campaigned to leave the Council of Europe.

 

If immigration is to be curtailed, its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain (there a million Brits living in Spain!). 330k Brits living in France, 107k Brits living in Germany, 329k living in Eire, 48k in the Netherlands, 37k in Italy, 31k in Belgium, 45k in Greece. We're nearly up to 2 mil Brits already there. Best tell them to come home, they've been very naughty people. Just in case you were wondering there's about 2.3 mil EU nationals living in the UK so the net migration to the country is pathetically small. Don't suppose UKIP mentioned that in their literature either did they? 

 

Yes the EU is corrupt but as the leader of the Party you voted for has so far claimed £2mil in expenses and has yet to account for it voting UKIP on the grounds of EU corruption is just a wee bit hilarious.

 

So if you vote for UKIP next time you'll have to think of a whole new set of moronic untruths to justify your decision because your current reasons don't really add up to much more than ill informed bollex

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

 

 

Were these people ignorant and stupid when they voted for the Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, etc, etc?

 

Clearly, because Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems are a 1 policy party as well 

 

 

 

I'm not overly familiar with UKIP policy so I went and looked at their web site  ... I saw more than one policy on it tbf   .. no tax on minimum wage , scrap HS2 for example

 

I couldn't vouch for how sane those policies are  but it would be like branding the Greens a one policy party because everything they say is bonkers

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25879302

 

Glad he had so much faith in them

 

Uniforms for taxi drivers , wtf !!

 

mind you that  was 2010  ... I suspect the other parties have a few gems in their old manifesto's  they'd rather we forgot ..like this one  for example

 

We will put it — the EU Constitution — to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a 'Yes' vote." — Labour Party manifesto, May 2005

 

 

[tonyh29]

 

its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain .

 

 

Pedant but if you retire to Spain you aren't working

 

 the Guardian had it as nearly 400,000 UK citizens living in Spain in 2012  , I doubt it's gone up 600,000 in 2 years  ?

 

clicky

Edited May 29, 2014 by tonyh29

[bickster]

 

 

its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain .

 

 

Pedant but if you retire to Spain you aren't working

 

Did you completely ignore the word live for a reason?

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain .

 

 

Pedant but if you retire to Spain you aren't working

 

Did you completely ignore the word live for a reason?

 

well seeing as you exaggerated by 600,000 people i figured we were just playing a game of see what you want to see

[villaajax]

 

EUobserver would also back up Bickster's post.

[bickster]

 

 

 

 

its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain .

 

 

Pedant but if you retire to Spain you aren't working

 

Did you completely ignore the word live for a reason?

 

well seeing as you exaggerated by 600,000 people i figured we were just playing a game of see what you want to see

 

exagerated what? 600,000 people where?

 

There are £1mil Brits living in Spain. 400,000 of them are retired (as in drawing a UK pension). I presume this is where your argument is going? If so I exaggerated nothing, you comprehended incorrectly

[tonyh29]

 

 

If immigration is to be curtailed, its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain (there a million Brits living in Spain!). 330k Brits living in France, 107k Brits living in Germany, 329k living in Eire, 48k in the Netherlands, 37k in Italy, 31k in Belgium, 45k in Greece. We're nearly up to 2 mil Brits already there. Best tell them to come home, they've been very naughty people. Just in case you were wondering there's about 2.3 mil EU nationals living in the UK so the net migration to the country is pathetically small. Don't suppose UKIP mentioned that in their literature either did they? 

 

In the year to December 2013, 526,000 people arrived in the UK as migrants and 314,000 people left the UK to live elsewhere

 

so that's 200,00 a year .. lets say that trend carries on for 10 years , then that's 2m people

 

depends on your definition of patheticly small I suppose  ..... 2m out of a population of 60m doesn't sound excessive I suppose  , but I wonder what impact 2m additional people ( not counting the birth rate )  would have on schools  , roads, housing , NHS etc

 

I don't agree with the original posters comments but I do question a few of the points you raised in your counter argument .. I was thinking if only there was a rule about quoting websites when lifting data from their websites    then I could see where you were pulling your info from

[bickster]

Thanks VA, thats got the imbalance down to 100,000 people

[bickster]

 

 

 

If immigration is to be curtailed, its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain (there a million Brits living in Spain!). 330k Brits living in France, 107k Brits living in Germany, 329k living in Eire, 48k in the Netherlands, 37k in Italy, 31k in Belgium, 45k in Greece. We're nearly up to 2 mil Brits already there. Best tell them to come home, they've been very naughty people. Just in case you were wondering there's about 2.3 mil EU nationals living in the UK so the net migration to the country is pathetically small. Don't suppose UKIP mentioned that in their literature either did they? 

 

In the year to December 2013, 526,000 people arrived in the UK as migrants and 314,000 people left the UK to live elsewhere

 

so that's 200,00 a year .. lets say that trend carries on for 10 years , then that's 2m people

 

depends on your definition of patheticly small I suppose  ..... 2m out of a population of 60m doesn't sound excessive I suppose  , but I wonder what impact 2m additional people ( not counting the birth rate )  would have on schools  , roads, housing , NHS etc

 

I don't agree with the original posters comments but I do question a few of the points you raised in your counter argument .. I was thinking if only there was a rule about quoting websites when lifting data from their websites    then I could see where you were pulling your info from

 

 Yet the immigrant / emigrant imbalance is only 100,00 people give or take, go figure!

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

 

 

its only fair that we Brits don't go to live and work in other countries, close the borders now, lets stop anyone retiring to Spain .

 

 

Pedant but if you retire to Spain you aren't working

 

Did you completely ignore the word live for a reason?

 

well seeing as you exaggerated by 600,000 people i figured we were just playing a game of see what you want to see

 

exagerated what? 600,000 people where?

 

There are £1mil Brits living in Spain. 400,000 of them are retired (as in drawing a UK pension). I presume this is where your argument is going? If so I exaggerated nothing, you comprehended incorrectly

 

well as you didn't quote a source for your data I went and looked for my own  ... my quoted data was from 2012 , your appears to be from 2010  ( presume your like for Villaajax was for him doing your job for you , not for any credible reason ? )

 

I didn't comprehend anything incorrectly , I went to a web site to validate the figure you quoted and found a totally different set of data ( thanks in advance for my like )

 

whose data is correct is a whole different argument I guess

[tonyh29]

Thanks VA, thats got the imbalance down to 100,000 people

meh

 

his data says "estimates" and is 4 years old  ....

 

my data takes accurate " figures from Eurostat and the ONS here in the UK, we are able to compare the number of inhabitants by country and nationality."

[villaajax]

The data doesn't fit your argument so it is incorrect?

[snowychap]

the Guardian had it as nearly 400,000 UK citizens living in Spain in 2012  , I doubt it's gone up 600,000 in 2 years  ?

clicky

Two down from the Grauniad link on the Google list was the FT (paywall) where Elizabeth Rigby, Deputy Political Editor of the FT, said in Feb of this year: 

About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens, according to government estimates. Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK.

[tonyh29]

The data doesn't fit your argument so it is incorrect?

no you just used the wrong data

[bickster]

Tony, quoting the Guardian and claiming it to be accurate

 

I win an internet

[tonyh29]

 

the Guardian had it as nearly 400,000 UK citizens living in Spain in 2012  , I doubt it's gone up 600,000 in 2 years  ?

clicky

Two down from the Grauniad link on the Google list was the FT (paywall) where Elizabeth Rigby, Deputy Political Editor of the FT, said in Feb of this year: 

About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens, according to government estimates. Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK.

 

i think the difference may be in the data I'm using is working on registered people living in each country  , the other data (yours and Ajax) is based on estimates including those living somewhere unofficially

 

I suspect the problem with that would be that it would then negate all the figures we have for immigration into Britain  ..

[tonyh29]

Tony, quoting the Guardian and claiming it to be accurate

 

I win an internet

have a second interweb as I'm now about to quote the mirror

 

In January 2013 there were 385,179 Brits living in Spain, according to the country’s National Statistics Institute.

But by December that number had plunged to 297,229 - a drop of 23% - it was announced yesterday (TUE).

It is believed the exodus of Brits is down to a triple whammy of the eurozone economic crisis, slumping property prices and a shrinking jobs market.

 

 

 

 

[colhint]

I think this part of the problem isn't it. 

 

ft gives one figure, Guardian another, Eurostat another and the Beeb yet another. And really they are not even close to each other so you could even make an educated guess. 

 

So how is the average guy going to get a realistic figure to decide if immigration is an issue. 

[snowychap]

i think the difference may be in the data I'm using is working on registered people living in each country  , the other data (yours and Ajax) is based on estimates including those living somewhere unofficially

To be totally fair, it's not 'my data' but rather the data that was being referred to by a bod at the FT.

I've not been anywhere counting anyone either in or out.

I'll remind you about your reluctance to accept 'estimates' the next time you post about employment numbers, GDP figures, &c.

Edited May 29, 2014 by snowychap