Sunderland

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Mantis said:

Could say the same about us though. We've been mis-managed but they sem to have somehow come out of it without even being relegated.

They haven't 'come out of it' yet. They stayed up on the penultimate gameweek last season, and since then have lost a manager and haven't signed a player. Yes Moyes should be good enough, but there's no guarantees. Advocaat should have been good enough as well, but he wasn't. 

[Mantis]

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

They haven't 'come out of it' yet. They stayed up on the penultimate gameweek last season, and since then have lost a manager and haven't signed a player. Yes Moyes should be good enough, but there's no guarantees. Advocaat should have been good enough as well, but he wasn't. 

True, although we all know what Sunderland are like. Jammy ****.

[VillaChris]

I like Sunderland, nice ground.

Place is like Chernobyl though!

[BOF]

On 23/07/2016 at 19:07, HanoiVillan said:

They haven't 'come out of it' yet. They stayed up on the penultimate gameweek last season, and since then have lost a manager and haven't signed a player. Yes Moyes should be good enough, but there's no guarantees. Advocaat should have been good enough as well, but he wasn't. 

There are certainly no guarantees.  Far from it.  Moyes might be good enough, but 'should' be good enough?  That's too optimistic for me.  He's not a relegation-avoiding miracle worker like Allardici is, and his success stories are becoming dimmer and more distant as time passes.  He may even be about to 'strengthen' his squad with Micah Richards and Charles N'Zogbia.  This is a huge job for Moyes.  He has gotten an almost free pass in his 2 recent appointments because of extenuating circumstances.  No such safety net here.  This is back to what he knows best and if he fails here then his stock will rightly plummet.

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, BOF said:

There are certainly no guarantees.  Far from it.  Moyes might be good enough, but 'should' be good enough?  That's too optimistic for me.  He's not a relegation-avoiding miracle worker like Allardici is, and his success stories are becoming dimmer and more distant as time passes.  He may even be about to 'strengthen' his squad with Micah Richards and Charles N'Zogbia.  This is a huge job for Moyes.  He has gotten an almost free pass in his 2 recent appointments because of extenuating circumstances.  No such safety net here.  This is back to what he knows best and if he fails here then his stock will rightly plummet.

Don't disagree with any of that. 

[Zatman]

looks like not keeping Mvila as well, one of best players last season

[VillaChris]

Khzari, Kone and Kirchoff massively improved Sunderland from March onwards, I suppose the big question is whether Moyes can keep Defoe scoring if he tweaks the style of play. They desperately need another striker to ease the burden if Defoe gets injured.

I think they'll be a bit more comfortable than last few seasons and Moyes is actually a manager I'd put in the big Sam/Pulis bracket e.g. he dosen't relegated teams if in charge for 30 odd games (although Pulis and Big Sam have achieved that in 20 odd games).

[HanoiVillan]

Everton did finish 17th in one of his seasons, so his 'never gets a team relegated' tag is true, but he's given fans brown trousers before. 

[tonyh29]

They must be favourites to get relegated this season so he has a huge job on his hands ... As resurrecting his career goes he's made a very weird choice 

[Demitri_C]

i think bournmouth, sunderland, watford along with the three promoted clubs are the likely to be the relegation candidates 

[lapal_fan]

There's so much shit in the PL this year, Sunderland will be fine.  Good appointment for them, who won't let them down.

I mean, look at the prestige of the teams;

Burnley

Bournemouth

Crystal Palace

Hull

Leicester (as champions!)

Middlesborough

Stoke

Swansea

Watford

West Brom

West Ham (Ok, they're good now, but this is the best they've ever been, thanks tax payers)

 

Meanwhile teams like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc are in the 2nd tier.  It's going to be a weird season.  Probably see the highest points winners this year.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

There's so much shit in the PL this year, Sunderland will be fine.  Good appointment for them, who won't let them down.

I mean, look at the prestige of the teams;

Burnley

Bournemouth

Crystal Palace

Hull

Leicester (as champions!)

Middlesborough

Stoke

Swansea

Watford

West Brom

West Ham (Ok, they're good now, but this is the best they've ever been, thanks tax payers)

 

Meanwhile teams like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds etc are in the 2nd tier.  It's going to be a weird season.  Probably see the highest points winners this year.

Well, that would certainly mean a complete reversal of last season, so it's a bold prediction. We'll see I guess whether the last couple of years have been unusual, or are the start of a trend. 

If I were a betting man, I'd bet against you, but time will tell. 

[lapal_fan]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

Well, that would certainly mean a complete reversal of last season, so it's a bold prediction. We'll see I guess whether the last couple of years have been unusual, or are the start of a trend. 

If I were a betting man, I'd bet against you, but time will tell. 

I wouldn't put money on it, hence "probably".

But I can certainly see Man U, City & Chelsea tightening up this year, becoming hard to score against and with all of their talent (*cough cough, MONEY*), they will score.

I can't see the league being anywhere near as interesting as it was last year.

I think Hull will get absolutely battered this year, no one should be worried about going to the KC Stadium, plus, if they get Martinez, they'll become disorganised, concede loads and they don't have goal scorers.

Burnley will also come back down, as they just don't have the budget.  Although, much like West Brom when they were yo-yo'ing in the late 00's, they will be saving the cash, go down, come up and splash a bit of cash in an effort to stay in the league longer than a year.

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

I wouldn't put money on it, hence "probably".

But I can certainly see Man U, City & Chelsea tightening up this year, becoming hard to score against and with all of their talent (*cough cough, MONEY*), they will score.

I can't see the league being anywhere near as interesting as it was last year.

I think Hull will get absolutely battered this year, no one should be worried about going to the KC Stadium, plus, if they get Martinez, they'll become disorganised, concede loads and they don't have goal scorers.

Burnley will also come back down, as they just don't have the budget.  Although, much like West Brom when they were yo-yo'ing in the late 00's, they will be saving the cash, go down, come up and splash a bit of cash in an effort to stay in the league longer than a year.

I can certainly see your argument, and when it comes to the relegation battle, I basically agree. It may well be the case that the title fight is more compelling than the relegation battle this season, which would make a welcome change from recent seasons (though last season the title fight was compelling even if effectively decided with several games to go). 

My issue is that I don't think City and Chelsea in particular have strengthened all that much. Those three teams probably do all have better managers than last season, which should be good enough for a few more points each I suppose. 

We'll see. 

[Zatman]

well being shit and getting away with it finally caught up with us so maybe this year it will finally hit Sunderland

probably replaced us now as pointless club making up numbers

[BOF]

19 hours ago, Zatman said:

well being shit and getting away with it finally caught up with us so maybe this year it will finally hit Sunderland

probably replaced us now as pointless club making up numbers

Finally?  They're up and down more than a whore's drawers!

[LondonLax]

On 27 July 2016 at 09:31, tonyh29 said:

They must be favourites to get relegated this season so he has a huge job on his hands ... As resurrecting his career goes he's made a very weird choice 

Do you recon he would have got many better offers? He might have been able to go abroad again or drop down a league but I recon Sunderland was probably his only chance at having another crack at the Premier League so soon. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by LondonLax

[VillaChris]

On 7/26/2016 at 23:18, HanoiVillan said:

Everton did finish 17th in one of his seasons, so his 'never gets a team relegated' tag is true, but he's given fans brown trousers before. 

Just checked and that was 03/04 so Moyes was still pretty raw at prem level in those days...he finished I believe top half next 9 seasons for them.

We know what he's like as manager, defensively solid, scrappy just like half the league so he'll pick up enough draws and narrow 1-0 wins to be alright I reckon.

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Do you recon he would have got many better offers? He might have been able to go abroad again or drop down a league but I recon Sunderland was probably his only chance at having another crack at the Premier League so soon. 

He could've very easily accepted our job as we were certainly interested and no doubt Wyness would've put in a good word to Dr Tony but looks like he wanted to manage in the prem again at all cost.

[LondonLax]

22 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

He could've very easily accepted our job as we were certainly interested and no doubt Wyness would've put in a good word to Dr Tony but looks like he wanted to manage in the prem again at all cost.

Although manging in the premier league is obviously a step up from managing a club in the lower leagues. Especially one in need of such a large overhaul as our club.

His decision to turn us down and wait for a better offer certainly payed off in that respect but it was a risky gamble because not many would have seen Sunderland needing a new manager this soon. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by LondonLax