Stevo985 Posted March 27, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yeah he is to be fair. but I still don't think that these days he's got that quality to grab a game by the scruff of the neck [/cliché] and drag England through. Whereas in the past, he and others were capable of that bit of magic. He's still the closest we've got to anyone like that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The only teams we've beaten in this qualifying are san Marino and moldova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I'm confident we'll beat Poland and Montenegro at Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 27, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27, 2013 Today's Independent (the printed tabloid version) has a feature claiming that Cleverley and Carrick were England's best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I remember Trevor Brooking stating a few years ago that due to the influx of foreign players there would come a time when England would struggle to qualify. England are there now and i really think there's more than a chance that you may not even secure the play off place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I remember Trevor Brooking stating a few years ago that due to the influx of foreign players there would come a time when England would struggle to qualify. England are there now and i really think there's more than a chance that you may not even secure the play off place. I take it you haven't actually seen the qualifying tables. I don't think we'll qualify automatically but we'll make the play-offs no doubt. Also, I don't think the influx of foreign players has anything to do with it. I think it's due to coaching at the grassroots level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 That's utter bullshit though. It's an easy argument for the FA (and therefore Trevor Brooking) to make in order to gloss over their failures as an organisation. The Premier League has a comparable number of foreign players as both Serie A and La Liga do. Italy and Spain have won the last four major tournaments that England have appeared in. The FA are the people who decided to spend a billion pounds on a new stadium rather than invest it in the grass roots of the game. The much cited newspaper article shows the real cause of the problem. England produces as many professionals as Spain or Italy or Germany or France, but because of a total failure to teach them them game properly when they are kids the number of "world class" players we produce is embarrassing compared to countries with similar populations and resources. Just look at the strength in depth Spain has, did they just get lucky with so many naturally talented players being born at the same time or is it more to do with the fact that they invested in coaching to the point where almost every team at every level of the game has a fully qualified coach? The big hope here is St Georges Park. There was a bit of a fanfare when it opened last year but we have probably got to wait at least a decade until it starts producing results, and that's assuming we don't **** things up in the meantime. Until then we are in limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) I can't see us not qualifying, still got 2 home games against Montenegro and Poland which I'm positive we will win. Plus we will have Jack Wilshere back by then, which is a boost. Edited March 28, 2013 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 28, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2013 Poland. It's always Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I can't see us not qualifying, still got 2 home games against Montenegro and Poland which I'm positive we will win. Plus we will have Jack Wilshere back by then, which is a boost. I think we will qualify, but i have no faith in Woy in getting us further than the first stages in Brazil. Fear just seems to get hold of him, and he then goes all negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 28, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2013 I remember Trevor Brooking stating a few years ago that due to the influx of foreign players there would come a time when England would struggle to qualify. England are there now and i really think there's more than a chance that you may not even secure the play off place. The foreign players argument is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I think England will stumble over the line thanks to the other teams not being that great either, but it will be in spite of themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make it at all, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It will hurt too much if England don't qualify. A world cup in brazil and england arent there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Montenegro vs Ukraine, whats the best result from an England perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 22 man brawl and points deductions for both teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) I remember Trevor Brooking stating a few years ago that due to the influx of foreign players there would come a time when England would struggle to qualify. England are there now and i really think there's more than a chance that you may not even secure the play off place. I take it you haven't actually seen the qualifying tables. I don't think we'll qualify automatically but we'll make the play-offs no doubt. Also, I don't think the influx of foreign players has anything to do with it. I think it's due to coaching at the grassroots level. My previous post was due to studying England's group after the recent games. Take a look at how much the teams behind England have closed the gap and then factor in who England have failed to beat in the group. Then factor in the pressure build from the expectation that England should win at home. Sorry but i can see the distinct possibility of England not even finishing second in their group. Its probably a combination of the two and i don't think you should dismiss the amount of foreign players in the Premiership over the past several years which must have had a detrimental affect on your national team. The last great England team was probably the 1990 World Cup side with Gazza, Waddle, Shilton, Lineker. Are you trying to say that the reason why that side was so good was because they got great coaching at 'grassroots level?' Edited March 28, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I can't see us not qualifying, still got 2 home games against Montenegro and Poland which I'm positive we will win. Plus we will have Jack Wilshere back by then, which is a boost. I think we will qualify, but i have no faith in Woy in getting us further than the first stages in Brazil. Fear just seems to get hold of him, and he then goes all negative. groups at world cup are not that difficult to progress through if your team has good players. England played toxic football in 2010 and still managed to get out of group. Its very rare a team with decent players makes a balls of it obviously Italy in 2010 were an exception but they did have injuries to their 2 best players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) And France in 2002 and 2010 finished bottom of their group. Argentina in 2002 failed to get out of the group. Edited March 28, 2013 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) That's utter bullshit though. It's an easy argument for the FA (and therefore Trevor Brooking) to make in order to gloss over their failures as an organisation. The Premier League has a comparable number of foreign players as both Serie A and La Liga do. Italy and Spain have won the last four major tournaments that England have appeared in. The FA are the people who decided to spend a billion pounds on a new stadium rather than invest it in the grass roots of the game. The much cited newspaper article shows the real cause of the problem. England produces as many professionals as Spain or Italy or Germany or France, but because of a total failure to teach them them game properly when they are kids the number of "world class" players we produce is embarrassing compared to countries with similar populations and resources. Just look at the strength in depth Spain has, did they just get lucky with so many naturally talented players being born at the same time or is it more to do with the fact that they invested in coaching to the point where almost every team at every level of the game has a fully qualified coach? The big hope here is St Georges Park. There was a bit of a fanfare when it opened last year but we have probably got to wait at least a decade until it starts producing results, and that's assuming we don't **** things up in the meantime. Until then we are in limbo. I tend to think that great national teams are born out of several world class players arriving at the same time rather than anything to do with coaching. If you can coach a player to become world class then every national team would have them so for me the argument doesn't stack up that England's lack of success is due to poor coaching. As i stated previously was Endland's 1990 World Cup team good because they received excellent coaching at grass root level. No they were a good team because a batch of World Class players arrived at the same time. Edited March 28, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 And France in 2002 and 2010 finished bottom of their group. Argentina in 2002 failed to get out of the group. Argentina were poorly conditioned while France just werent good enough especially 2010 they were dreadful and killing each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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