The Randy Lerner thread

[TRO]

The finances of a football club has little interest to most fans, they want to see success on the field the rest is a burden.

When you see players bought for 10 million and better players sold for 5 million it is no wonder...fans ask questions.

When fans question owners on their support they want to equally question managers buying shit.

[NoelVilla]

Instead of quoting a lot of text...at Panto Villan

The new owner cant decide how much the debt is...Randy Lerner can from the balance sheet of the club. Maybe Im lost in translation here but I don't get what you mean.

 

I get the 1 pound reference but this is Aston Villa - we score when we want

[suttonpaul]

 

 

So we're meant to be happy being a midtable team.

Well the last two years we were a team that barely survived and the year before that we somehow achieved midtable with two great results when the manager, hired by Lerner, was too ill to be near the team.

People say we should be happy like we've been achieving this midtable status.

And if we're meant to be happy with that why were we so desperate to get rid of the last guy?

Nobody would be happy with it long term, but short term it's fine. It's called building

Suttonpaul certainly seems to be suggesting this is what we should be happy with

 

Not once have I said this.

 

Listen up ladies and gents I am going to share a secret with you....

 

The secret to happiness is exceeding expectations, if you meet expectations you are satisfied and if you don't meet expectations you are unhappy. It is that simple.

 

Villa as a club have the 9th highest revenue, being realistic though as there is only a couple of million in it and some owners spend money out of there own pocket to find things villa should be 8th to 13th going by cash coming in so if you finish there I will say you should be satisfied we all know in our sport money doesn't lie.

 

If we finish above that we should be happy and if below 13th we should be unhappy if I am being simplistic for John.

 

of course there are expectations to the rule what if the person in 10th only has one point more than us and we are in 14th should we be unhappy? Well mediocre I would say.

 

With regards to building as another poster later mentioned that is what Villa needs to do if they are ever to move forward for that we need to do all the usual stuff be sensible with spending until an opportunity to go above whatever our current station is at the time ala Spurs right now. We need to buy 90% players under 24 so they have sell on value and a chance to get better.

 

But I really think we need to as a group of fans come to terms with our place in football which I mentioned in an earlier post and villabromsgrove summed up nicely so we can be satisfied rather than unhappy get villa park full, rocking and intimidating. Expand the stadium rinse and repeat.

 

To become better than what we are we must do it differently to the other clubs..... the above is different.

[Big_John_10]

Not once have I said this.

Wait.

You've never said we should be happy with midtable?

[B3ndy1]

Of someone came in to buy a company, you'd base the value on the cashflows of the company discounted over several years (allowing for inflation etc). You then add a bit or remove a bit for goodwill, what someone is willing to pay over / under the value of the company.

Whilst the debt would possibly deter buyers it wouldn't effect the value of the club per se, only the profit/loss made could do that. This is mainly as the debt/assets are required to make the money the company is currently making, the assets are only helpful if it all goes wrong and you have to make money quickly.

So with the club aiming to be profitable you could argue it is being set up to be sold for more money even though I don't think this is case. I think RL just wants to stop losing money year on year on running costs, don't think he'd be as tight for players when he doesn't have to pump money into other areas of the club that the fans rightfully dont appreciate.

[suttonpaul]

 

Not once have I said this.

Wait.

You've never said we should be happy with midtable?

 

If you think I am replying to that with a full post you must be joking, read the last post again

[P3te]

Given that the money is owed to Randy, could it not be said that to a new buyer there is no debt since Randy has to pay it up to himself before he leaves? Ie any "debt" is simple added onto the sale price?

[Panto_Villan]

Instead of quoting a lot of text...at Panto Villan

The new owner cant decide how much the debt is...Randy Lerner can from the balance sheet of the club. Maybe Im lost in translation here but I don't get what you mean.

 

I get the 1 pound reference but this is Aston Villa - we score when we want

 

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain it well. You said that when a owner buys the club, they are only buying the assets and not the debts - that's not necessarily true. The only way those debts can be removed from the club is if the person who made the loan cancels them.

 

If your point was that Randy can cancel those debts at will so effectively the club has no debt then you're right about that. I just thought your first post was saying that whenever a football club was taken over, old debts of any kind were left with the old owner.

 

 

Given that the money is owed to Randy, could it not be said that to a new buyer there is no debt since Randy has to pay it up to himself before he leaves? Ie any "debt" is simple added onto the sale price?

 

Yup, this is a very simple summary of what I posted. If people want to disagree with that statement, they can read my massive wall of text which explains why. Saying "Randy has saddled the club with big debts" is literally true, but he's not done it in a particularly dangerous way and effectively all it has done is increase the money Randy has paid for the club.

[P3te]

So basically, it just increases the prospective sale price as opposed to anything else? that makes perfect sense actually

[Dodgyknees]

I'll feel quite sad when Lerner goes, for one main reason - what might have been.

Like I posted previously - and I still cannot watch it - the pitch invasion from the cup semi, chants of 'One Randy Lerner' it's quite heart breaking as I really believed a sleeping giant had awoken.

I grew up watching videos and reading books of our success and I just want a little taste of it.

:-(

Edited October 5, 2013 by dodgyknees

[Panto_Villan]

I'll feel quite sad when Lerner goes, for one main reason - what might have been.

Like I posted previously - and I still cannot watch it - the pitch invasion from the cup semi, chants of 'One Randy Lerner' it's quite heart breaking as I really believe a sleeping giant had awoken.

 

It's better to have loved and lost, then never loved at all. There's no shame in getting excited that Villa might make it back to the big time, even if it didn't / doesn't ultimately pan out.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Panto_Villan

[Dodgyknees]

I'll feel quite sad when Lerner goes, for one main reason - what might have been.

Like I posted previously - and I still cannot watch it - the pitch invasion from the cup semi, chants of 'One Randy Lerner' it's quite heart breaking as I really believe a sleeping giant had awoken.

It's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all. There no shame in getting excited that Villa might make it back to the big time, even if it didn't (or doesn't) ultimately pan out.

Can't argue with that. I just hope the next guy comes in with a real plan that doesn't involve a long PR campaign, because the supposed plan he does have is not sustainable.

[VillaChris]

Will be interesting to see how history judges the Lerner reign.

 

Given the hype when he took over, it can't be anything more than a massive missed opportunity.

 

Yes Abu Dhabi suddenly deciding to buy Man. City was unlucky but that was just one club, Spurs underachieved a lot during 07-09 (two points from 8 games etc) and Liverpool declined from top 4 regulars to 7th or 8th (ironically under American owners aswell).

 

Regrettably MON was just about the worst to give 100m + to spend, coming back with a mainly British squad that lacked imagination, creativity and even ability to last the course of a season. And the wages aswell. Lambert has shown a good ability to pick up interesting players from abroad so why oh why MON couldn't do it from time to time was beyond me.

 

I didn't fall for the we'll be enjoying years of success after success just because Ellis had gone but I don't think with the money spent it was unreasonable to expect to win a trophy or two or have one season in the champions league at least.

 

Really our chance was in 09/10 and we blew it especially top 4 when MON just repeated the same mistakes he'd made the previous year.

 

Lerner paid for not being in English football before, thinking appointing a popular manager and letting him get on with things was the right course of action,it gave us some good games and finishing positions but ultimately wasn't enough in the final reckoning and we have paid for it big time in the last three seasons complete with some bizarre managerial theories and appointments.

 

I wonder how history would've panned out if Randy had stuck with his first option and appojnted Klinsmann. Hit and miss as a coach but his name would've attracte some decent European players to us I'm sure.

[Avfc96]

I think in 20-25 years Villa fans will look back on Lerner's tenture as Villa chairman as a huge failure and a massive disappointment.

 

We are now 7 years on from when Lerner took over and we are in a very similar position now and when he took over, but we are financially worse off.

 

It all started off positively when he finally completed his take over in September 2006. We as Villa fans had suffered under the ownership of Doug Ellis as he refused to invest in the team and help us challenge towards the top end of the premier league. 2 league cups and a European super cup in Ellis' second tenure show how much Villa underachieved under his ownership.

 

But after hundreds of millions of pounds spent and still no trophy's/champions league to show for it you would have to argue that Villa have massively underachieved and that Lerner has not unlocked Villa's full potential.

[thetrees]

 

 

Little bit i heard yesterday, lerner was in birmingham at the time of last weeks cup game with spurs, buy didnt bother attending the game, he was expected but disnt show, the word is that the guy has completely lost his interest in football.

The money city, spurs, liverpool ect have now pales us into insignificance in respect as to what lerner could do for us, he saw us becoming like man city are now when he came in, but the revolution at city and spurs put stops to it... As soon as the club is back in the black, i think he will be actively looking for a buyer.

I did allude to this at the time.

Aircraft departed BHX 2 minutes prior to kick off

You alluded to him being at the game, where-as he wasn't. If I were ever close enough to VP to go to a game, I wouldn't skip it. This club deserves so much better, Ellis was a terrible chairman, at least he stuck it out and attended games.

 

 

I am afraid that I didn't. The subtle use of that old English peace of grammar, the humble question mark was just that. I was aware that his aircraft had departed BHX at 1943, so the question, rather than the statement, was in place for anyone who may have observed him at the game.

 

As for Ellis, or Mr.Aston Villa as the Lerner knockers appear to wish to portray him, he is an old, nasty egomaniac, who has always ridden on the crest of the wave of being 'Mr Aston Villa' and, with absolutely nothing else in his life, will milk that until he "turns his toes up". He also lives just down the road.

 

And I agree that it is strange that Mr Lerner spent the day at the club, but didn't attend the game. But then he followed the lead of around 45% of our regular support, so no one can accuse him of not being in touch with the supporters

 

 

 

 

Just out if interest , when was the last time we saw Mr Lerner at a Villa game ??

 

Last November\December ?

 

Last evening?

 

[villabromsgrove]

I checked the AFC North table a couple of days ago and to my immense surprise Cleveland Browns are top and Pittsburg Steelers are bottom. Who would have believed it ! Sometimes absence can be a good thing.

[Dodgyknees]

Little bit i heard yesterday, lerner was in birmingham at the time of last weeks cup game with spurs, buy didnt bother attending the game, he was expected but disnt show, the word is that the guy has completely lost his interest in football.

The money city, spurs, liverpool ect have now pales us into insignificance in respect as to what lerner could do for us, he saw us becoming like man city are now when he came in, but the revolution at city and spurs put stops to it... As soon as the club is back in the black, i think he will be actively looking for a buyer.

I did allude to this at the time.

Aircraft departed BHX 2 minutes prior to kick off

You alluded to him being at the game, where-as he wasn't. If I were ever close enough to VP to go to a game, I wouldn't skip it. This club deserves so much better, Ellis was a terrible chairman, at least he stuck it out and attended games.

I am afraid that I didn't. The subtle use of that old English peace of grammar, the humble question mark was just that. I was aware that his aircraft had departed BHX at 1943, so the question, rather than the statement, was in place for anyone who may have observed him at the game.

As for Ellis, or Mr.Aston Villa as the Lerner knockers appear to wish to portray him, he is an old, nasty egomaniac, who has always ridden on the crest of the wave of being 'Mr Aston Villa' and, with absolutely nothing else in his life, will milk that until he "turns his toes up". He also lives just down the road.

And I agree that it is strange that Mr Lerner spent the day at the club, but didn't attend the game. But then he followed the lead of around 45% of our regular support, so no one can accuse him of not being in touch with the supporters

Just out if interest , when was the last time we saw Mr Lerner at a Villa game ??

Last November\December ?

Last evening?

So, you knew he had left one minute before kick off, but still said 'last evening?' as a reply. A good stretch to make Randy look interested I guess.

[thetrees]

 

 

 

 

Little bit i heard yesterday, lerner was in birmingham at the time of last weeks cup game with spurs, buy didnt bother attending the game, he was expected but disnt show, the word is that the guy has completely lost his interest in football.

The money city, spurs, liverpool ect have now pales us into insignificance in respect as to what lerner could do for us, he saw us becoming like man city are now when he came in, but the revolution at city and spurs put stops to it... As soon as the club is back in the black, i think he will be actively looking for a buyer.

I did allude to this at the time.

Aircraft departed BHX 2 minutes prior to kick off

You alluded to him being at the game, where-as he wasn't. If I were ever close enough to VP to go to a game, I wouldn't skip it. This club deserves so much better, Ellis was a terrible chairman, at least he stuck it out and attended games.

I am afraid that I didn't. The subtle use of that old English peace of grammar, the humble question mark was just that. I was aware that his aircraft had departed BHX at 1943, so the question, rather than the statement, was in place for anyone who may have observed him at the game.

As for Ellis, or Mr.Aston Villa as the Lerner knockers appear to wish to portray him, he is an old, nasty egomaniac, who has always ridden on the crest of the wave of being 'Mr Aston Villa' and, with absolutely nothing else in his life, will milk that until he "turns his toes up". He also lives just down the road.

And I agree that it is strange that Mr Lerner spent the day at the club, but didn't attend the game. But then he followed the lead of around 45% of our regular support, so no one can accuse him of not being in touch with the supporters

 

 

Just out if interest , when was the last time we saw Mr Lerner at a Villa game ??

Last November\December ?

Last evening?

So, you knew he had left one minute before kick off, but still said 'last evening?' as a reply. A good stretch to make Randy look interested I guess.

 

No, I knew that his aircraft had departed.

I did not know whether he was on it, hence the question.

[blandy]

Will be interesting to see how history judges the Lerner reign.

 

Given the hype when he took over, it can't be anything more than a massive missed opportunity.

 

Yes Abu Dhabi suddenly deciding to buy Man. City was unlucky but that was just one club, Spurs underachieved a lot during 07-09 (two points from 8 games etc) and Liverpool declined from top 4 regulars to 7th or 8th (ironically under American owners aswell).

 

Regrettably MON was just about the worst to give 100m + to spend, coming back with a mainly British squad that lacked imagination, creativity and even ability to last the course of a season. And the wages aswell. Lambert has shown a good ability to pick up interesting players from abroad so why oh why MON couldn't do it from time to time was beyond me.

 

I didn't fall for the we'll be enjoying years of success after success just because Ellis had gone but I don't think with the money spent it was unreasonable to expect to win a trophy or two or have one season in the champions league at least.

 

Really our chance was in 09/10 and we blew it especially top 4 when MON just repeated the same mistakes he'd made the previous year.

 

Lerner paid for not being in English football before, thinking appointing a popular manager and letting him get on with things was the right course of action,it gave us some good games and finishing positions but ultimately wasn't enough in the final reckoning and we have paid for it big time in the last three seasons complete with some bizarre managerial theories and appointments.

 

I wonder how history would've panned out if Randy had stuck with his first option and appojnted Klinsmann. Hit and miss as a coach but his name would've attracte some decent European players to us I'm sure.

With hindsight, there's a lot of that to agree with. Not all of it, mind.

I think the premise that "Given the hype when he took over, it can't be anything more than a massive missed opportunity" is awry. We shouldn't judge anything by "hype". By definition, we're bound to be disappointed if we fall for hype.

[VillaChris]

Of course Pete but a lot of it came from General Krulak's posts "we WILL get there" and all that (and I like the general positing on the numerous sites).