danceoftheshamen Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have a question for everybody..... Lets suppose we did somehow scrape survival & remain in the Premier League for another season. Do you honestly think Randy Lerner will invest in the team "properly" in the summer? Or do you think his eyes will glimmer with $$$$'s & he will cut his losses still further, pocket the windfall from the new TV money... Give Lambert a ridiculously small kitty designed at bringing in more lower league & cheap foreign players resulting in us struggling yet again next season & then having recouped most of his investment "do one" asap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutherland Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have a question for everybody..... Lets suppose we did somehow scrape survival & remain in the Premier League for another season. Do you honestly think Randy Lerner will invest in the team "properly" in the summer? Or do you think his eyes will glimmer with $$$$'s & he will cut his losses still further, pocket the windfall from the new TV money... Give Lambert a ridiculously small kitty designed at bringing in more lower league & cheap foreign players resulting in us struggling yet again next season & then having recouped most of his investment "do one" asap? Yeah im affraid we are the new wigan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I think he would like to emulate a Borussia Dortmund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have a question for everybody..... Lets suppose we did somehow scrape survival & remain in the Premier League for another season. Do you honestly think Randy Lerner will invest in the team "properly" in the summer? Or do you think his eyes will glimmer with $$$$'s & he will cut his losses still further, pocket the windfall from the new TV money... Give Lambert a ridiculously small kitty designed at bringing in more lower league & cheap foreign players resulting in us struggling yet again next season & then having recouped most of his investment "do one" asap? Well we will see what his intentions are for the clubs future in the summer I think there's the possibility he may be looking to sell us If not i hope he invests more and gives Lambert more backing getting tired of these relegation battles every season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have a question for everybody..... Lets suppose we did somehow scrape survival & remain in the Premier League for another season. Do you honestly think Randy Lerner will invest in the team "properly" in the summer? Or do you think his eyes will glimmer with $$$$'s & he will cut his losses still further, pocket the windfall from the new TV money... Give Lambert a ridiculously small kitty designed at bringing in more lower league & cheap foreign players resulting in us struggling yet again next season & then having recouped most of his investment "do one" asap? Well we will see what his intentions are for the clubs future in the summer I think there's the possibility he may be looking to sell us If not i hope he invests more and gives Lambert more backing getting tired of these relegation battles every season Isn't it about getting the finances in order as 1. We need to because they got out of control 2. FFP rules even though he was one of the chairmen that voted against. Last report, I believe, we were 1-2 mill over the FFP benchmark with that set to reduce further when we get rid of more of the overpaid players when their contracts run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Having just started reading 'Soccernomics', I'm almost certain that Randy and Paul Faulkner have also read the book and have decided that we need to be like Lyon and Dortmund. We've almost exclusively bought players between the ages of 20 and 22 this season and think we're going to try to follow that model in the Premier League. In order for that to work though, we must have fantastic talent spotting and be willing to let our best players go onto bigger and better things, when they are being offered them. If we don't then we'll never get the talented players in the first place. Personally, I don't see it working with our fanbase (impatient and feeling alienated), but it looks increasingly likely that the age of the 'superstar' and mediocre journeymen signings are long gone. That's one thing to rejoice in, but we may find ourselves yoyoing depending on how good we are at it and how many players we hang onto. The only problem we have at the moment is a lack of transparency from our owner. At Arsenal the board have been quite open about where they expect to finish each season, which is 4th or above. They don't expect to win anything, any time soon and so they shouldn't, they don't invest enough money to compete. It has upset their fans, but that is where they are, at least they know. Perhaps we could do with the same bitter pill? I think they've been trying to drip feed the message through Lambert, but that's not fair on him, they could do with telling everyone what we can realistically expect, otherwise they may find that sections of the fanbase will reject their little experiment out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickyhell Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 They must have something that they believe is a strategy. A strategy can only be as good as the people that devised it, that is Faulkner and Lerner so dont get your hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Having just started reading 'Soccernomics', I'm almost certain that Randy and Paul Faulkner have also read the book and have decided that we need to be like Lyon and Dortmund. We've almost exclusively bought players between the ages of 20 and 22 this season and think we're going to try to follow that model in the Premier League. In order for that to work though, we must have fantastic talent spotting and be willing to let our best players go onto bigger and better things, when they are being offered them. If we don't then we'll never get the talented players in the first place. Personally, I don't see it working with our fanbase (impatient and feeling alienated), but it looks increasingly likely that the age of the 'superstar' and mediocre journeymen signings are long gone. That's one thing to rejoice in, but we may find ourselves yoyoing depending on how good we are at it and how many players we hang onto. The only problem we have at the moment is a lack of transparency from our owner. At Arsenal the board have been quite open about where they expect to finish each season, which is 4th or above. They don't expect to win anything, any time soon and so they shouldn't, they don't invest enough money to compete. It has upset their fans, but that is where they are, at least they know. Perhaps we could do with the same bitter pill? I think they've been trying to drip feed the message through Lambert, but that's not fair on him, they could do with telling everyone what we can realistically expect, otherwise they may find that sections of the fanbase will reject their little experiment out of hand. all well and good, but that still requires money to be spent in times of need, not for the manager to have to beg , borrow and steel for 1.5m to cover a gap everyone could see needed strengthening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted February 18, 2013 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2013 They haven't been trying to drip feed anything through Lambert, he simply got feed up of being the one stuck in front of the press every week while Lerner and Faulkner hid who knows where. In the end he got sick of trying to get them to give the fans an idea of the financial restraints he was working under and opted to do it himself and still they stayed quiet. I honestly find it laughable after Randy's time here that anyone can think him capable of having any kind of plan, that anyone can think he has looked around Europe at other clubs to find a model he wants to adopt. I really think people credit the man with more intelligence and frankly interest than is deserved. He isn't copying Dortmund or anyone else, Lambert might well be, in fact I'd say that is exactly the sort of thing he is trying to do but Lerner and Faulkner? Please. All Lerner's plan consists of is setting Lambert a tiny budget and saying 'there you go' and that my friends is about it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 If we are trying to emulate Dortmund, Arsenal, Lyon etc - we need to invest a lot in our scouting network. Look at Barcelona, it is a well-known fact that they spend tons of money on scouting and youth development, i.e snatching all the talent there is out there and moving them to La Masia. Most people say they are doing a marvelous job at discovering gems, but basically what they are doing is stealing away all the talent every club have in their ranks before they know it themselves. Sure it is smart and ruthless at the same time, but look at the annual expenses they have in this department. For us to be even remotely close to their network we need to hire a lot more people and not just a few ex-professionals sitting in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I don't think there's any plan to make us a top team. I think that's people kidding themselves to try and explain such an awful season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 If we are trying to emulate Dortmund, Arsenal, Lyon etc - we need to invest a lot in our scouting network. Look at Barcelona, it is a well-known fact that they spend tons of money on scouting and youth development, i.e snatching all the talent there is out there and moving them to La Masia. Most people say they are doing a marvelous job at discovering gems, but basically what they are doing is stealing away all the talent every club have in their ranks before they know it themselves. Sure it is smart and ruthless at the same time, but look at the annual expenses they have in this department. For us to be even remotely close to their network we need to hire a lot more people and not just a few ex-professionals sitting in the stands. Indeed & also Barca have the means to develop those players & have the Kudos to make those kids want to stay there when they have reached their potential. Surely for us it would be like treading water? We find them, coach & develop them at a significant cost & then as soon as they get any good they want out. So we sell them & the whole cycle starts over again with the next "find"?! So i guess it depends on how much we sell them for compared to how much it costs us to develop them over several years as to whether it's really worthwhile? For me we have to get a few of them sticking around for a good few seasons whilst at their best for this to work. Or at least get a humungous fee for them thus enabling us to sign a decent replacement. Its a sad day when this club has become a mere footstep to a "proper" club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 They haven't been trying to drip feed anything through Lambert, he simply got feed up of being the one stuck in front of the press every week while Lerner and Faulkner hid who knows where. In the end he got sick of trying to get them to give the fans an idea of the financial restraints he was working under and opted to do it himself and still they stayed quiet. I honestly find it laughable after Randy's time here that anyone can think him capable of having any kind of plan, that anyone can think he has looked around Europe at other clubs to find a model he wants to adopt. I really think people credit the man with more intelligence and frankly interest than is deserved. He isn't copying Dortmund or anyone else, Lambert might well be, in fact I'd say that is exactly the sort of thing he is trying to do but Lerner and Faulkner? Please. All Lerner's plan consists of is setting Lambert a tiny budget and saying 'there you go' and that my friends is about it. This sounds just about right for me as well. I think he's lost interest big time and is more concerned about how much his wife is going to take him for. We seem nothing more than a rich man's plaything that he's got fed up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raver50032 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Surely for us it would be like treading water? Its a sad day when this club has become a mere footstep to a "proper" club. I think it's been like this for a while, certainly since we sold Platt, then Yorke and a whole catalogue of players since. In terms of treading water, I think we are about out of energy and following any number of clubs who have tried and failed to stay in the top flight with that mentality - too many to mention here. We've failed to build on any glimmer of success since 1982 either because the owners have been too tight, played it safe to safeguard our long term future, or just plain lost interest. So, we've been a selling club for a long time. We just haven't got anything worthwhile to sell right now. Apart from Benteke. Maybe Bent and Insomnia are arguable cases. We won't get anywhere near the money we spent for them in the cases of the latter two. Somebody else posted about Arsenal, and their fans knowing exactly where they stand with their owners. Yeah, they might not win **** all, but at least (up to now at least), they are in the Champions League every year. 4th has become the new holy grail for a lot of clubs. Crikey, it weren't that long ago that we finished 2nd (twice)... and then 4th... and still no Champions League football. Maybe we were unlucky that the goal posts changed... I think the club would be embarrassed to have to come out and admit that we are 'now' a selling club, and that we have no financial backing to enable us to compete... Hell, even our ability to stay in the league is being undermined right now. Well Randolph - if you can't 'fix it' for this club to compete (not necessarily win) in this league, sell up to somebody who can. Because I am not paying premier league prices to just watch the opposition. Doesn't fit my economic model as a customer. And each time a club like ours falls by the wayside into obscurity and with an inability to compete, so it makes the Sky 6 even stronger (Manure, Citeh, Chelski, Spuds, Goonshow and Plop). We've missed a lot of boats, and now we face paddling up stream. Treading water in the Championship my lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 To be fair to Randy for a moment, I think he did start off with some sort of idea that he needed to turn the tide and spend money on top quality players so that we could become a significant force in the premier league again. And indeed he did splash out quite a lot of cash and we got players like Young and Milner who were really good and did make us look like contenders. When he goes (please) I will not forget that early phase and will be grateful for the little bit of excitement and hope he brought. Trouble is, it wasn't much of a plan. He had no idea about how he was going to sustain the investment and he clearly didn't have the massive resources needed to create a step change in the club's position in the way that Chelsea earlier and recently Man City have done. Nor did he have a plan of getting in a manager who would be prepared to build gradually with modest resources (e,g. Moyes at Everton). He spent masses at the start, built up a massive wage bill, and found his fingers were seriously on fire. So he has simply taken out as much as he could of the money he put in and is now running us as a much cheaper operation, with premier league survival a bonus rather than seemingly having any lofty ambitions about what we might achieve. Of course we are a selling club. But before too long we won't have too much to sell and what happens then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well if he has paid off all his loans I'd imagine he will sell to the highest bidder and get on Google and start searching laser tattoo removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Here's one in Birmingham oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2013 Here's one in Birmingham oh. That made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I don't think there's any plan to make us a top team. I think that's people kidding themselves to try and explain such an awful season. At least they realised what a short-sighted, and how long-term dangerous the MON approach was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Kind of begs the question Randy..."What exactly is the point in Aston Villa at the moment?" I mean are we supposed to gleefully pop along & spend a small fortune to watch the opposition outplay us every week?.. Travel the country at massive expense to watch us get humiliated as often as not? Spend £50 on a new top with Young, Milner or Benteke on the back only to know it will be obsolete in less than a year? Ok it's the Villa but frankly it doesn't feel like the Villa anymore! It really is a pale shadow of the club i remember. Over to you Mr Lerner ....here's hoping you either sort it out & have another go in a more controlled manner or find somebody to sell to who can inject the necessary funds & breath some life back into this comatosed giant. I do think Lerner could still turn this round & become a hero in the History of the club but sadly it appears he simply hasn't the stomach for it & instead will go down as a guy who made a half arsed attempt but lacked the passion or conviction to see it through and then pulled the plug, stuck two fingers up to the loyal fanbase & left the club to rot in the Championship. Edited February 19, 2013 by danceoftheshamen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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