The Randy Lerner thread

[OutByEaster?]

Chelsea have spent a fortune on managers in the last few years, easily five or six times the compensations we've paid out - they paid £13m to get AVB and around the same again to get rid of him.

Chelsea's fans were actually pretty patient with him - Roman Abramovich listens to no-one but Roman Abramovich.

[Big_John_10]

My point is thought that Roman doesn't need to speak directly to the fans so comparing them to us in that sense is pointless.

His actions told the fans he wasn't prepared to let a manager who was underperforming continue in his job. That says more than any press release would.

Randy on the other hand ignored the protests when hiring him and is allowing a man who will probably finish with the worst season we've had in the premiership continue with his job. This after the general claimed we could finish 5th and Faulker claiming we could get a European spot.

Lerner is achieving a new level of shitness. Buys a club when they achieve their lowest points total in the prem. Spends hundreds of millions only to achieve a similar, if not worse points total, 6 years later.

That's mind blowing levels of shitness right there.

[stanthemanisgod]

The issue here is a disconnect between what we consider to be underperforming and what the owner considers to be underperforming.

Inthe Chelsea case the owner and the fans were celarly on the same page, it's very clear what's expected and the funds are in place o ensure that is possible.

At Villa we tend be reluctant to accept that due to financial contraints we have fallen behind other clubs we were regulary finishing above previously. There is a much larger grey area around what is wanted and what is the minimum that is sustainable. Whilst i honestly belive the board thought we should (and I agree) be higher up the table, I dont think they're prepared to sack the guy for finishing 15th. I also think they will have remembered us being around the drop zone for a while last season until a strong finish had us up to 9th. I'm not saying that will def happen again but I think the owner would be reluctant to sack McLeish at this point given our position of relative safety.

Where we finish on the last day of the season may or may not give Lerner a tough decision to make, and I think if we're any closer to the drop zone he may look to replace the manager, but a lot of that will depend on what has been said between the 2 behind closed doors and what managers might be available to us if we were to sack McLeish.

[blandy]

The issue here is a disconnect between what we consider to be underperforming and what the owner considers to be underperforming.

Inthe Chelsea case the owner and the fans were celarly on the same page, it's very clear what's expected and the funds are in place o ensure that is possible.

At Villa we tend be reluctant to accept that due to financial contraints we have fallen behind other clubs we were regulary finishing above previously. There is a much larger grey area around what is wanted and what is the minimum that is sustainable. Whilst i honestly belive the board thought we should (and I agree) be higher up the table, I dont think they're prepared to sack the guy for finishing 15th. I also think they will have remembered us being around the drop zone for a while last season until a strong finish had us up to 9th. I'm not saying that will def happen again but I think the owner would be reluctant to sack McLeish at this point given our position of relative safety.

Where we finish on the last day of the season may or may not give Lerner a tough decision to make, and I think if we're any closer to the drop zone he may look to replace the manager, but a lot of that will depend on what has been said between the 2 behind closed doors and what managers might be available to us if we were to sack McLeish.

That is an excellent post.

[Stu_The_Villan]

Lerner is achieving a new level of shitness. Buys a club when they achieve their lowest points total in the prem. Spends hundreds of millions only to achieve a similar, if not worse points total, 6 years later.

That's mind blowing levels of shitness right there.

You cant blame Lerner for letting MoN piss his money up the wall. Lerner obviously thought he was doing the right thing, and so did most of the fans.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing though...

[TrentVilla]

You cant blame Lerner for letting MoN piss his money up the wall. Lerner obviously thought he was doing the right thing, and so did most of the fans.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing though...

You can't blame Randy for O'Neill wasting money I agree with you there.

I think you can blame Randy for allowing spending to get to such an unsustainable level that we've had to endure the last two years massive cost reduction in order to try and balance the books.

Randy allowed spending to reach a level we simply couldn't sustain and that is bad management on his part. We as fans will always want the club to spend more but I doubt any of us or very few of us would have thought it the right thing had we known at the time just how far we were over reaching.

Sure income would have increased had we reached the CL but so to would spending and expectations. It is unlikely the two would ever have balanced out especially with a manager like O'Neill who was so found of wasting money especially on wages.

The model of financial control, I use control in the losses sense of the word, shown by Randy Lerner basically is a mirror image of the approach used by Leeds.

The only differences are that the debt is smaller and owed to him personally rather than banks meaning we aren't crippled by interest oh and we didn't reach the CL.

You are right it is hindsight with which we are saying Randy made mistakes but had we had all the facts at the time I think many of us would have said then he was making mistakes.

[Risso]

Lerner is achieving a new level of shitness. Buys a club when they achieve their lowest points total in the prem. Spends hundreds of millions only to achieve a similar, if not worse points total, 6 years later.

That's mind blowing levels of shitness right there.

You cant blame Lerner for letting MoN piss his money up the wall. Lerner obviously thought he was doing the right thing, and so did most of the fans.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing though...

You can, and should blame Lerner. Lots of people were questioning the wisdom of letting O'Neill run riot with the cheque book. an absolute shit signing like Harewood probably cost the club £10m in fee and wages. That should have been a warning sign.

[juanpabloangel18]

what managers might be available

I was wondering about Martinez. I know when we approached him he said he felt loyalty to Whelan and that his job wasn't finished... hopefully that may have struck a chord with Randy - who seems to value integrity? Anyway, supposedly he signed a new deal soon after he snubbed us. Anyone know how long it was for?

I'm now in the position where I'm desperate for him to be our manager next season.

[stanthemanisgod]

I dont get the hysteria surrounding Lerner's 'supposed' lack of control over his spending.

As far as I can tell he hasn't been too upset about the club running at a loss, we dont have HMRC knocking on the door and we're not subject to the whims of some bank.

The only thing I can see that has fundamnetally changed our approach to wages is the advent of the UEFA Financial Fair Play Regs. It seems as if we took action to comply earlier than many other clubs and as such we're feeling the effects before many others do. The thought process was probably the sooner we addressed the issue the sooner we can look competing within those rules.

I honestly believe that prior to news of the UEFA regs Lerner was quite content with what we were spending and his only real gripe was having highly paid players frozen out of the squad, which is understandable.

[TrentVilla]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

[irreverentad]

what managers might be available

I was wondering about Martinez. I know when we approached him he said he felt loyalty to Whelan and that his job wasn't finished... hopefully that may have struck a chord with Randy - who seems to value integrity? Anyway, supposedly he signed a new deal soon after he snubbed us. Anyone know how long it was for?

I'm now in the position where I'm desperate for him to be our manager next season.

I'm not sure he is that good. Who is the Levante manager? He must be a genius.

[stanthemanisgod]

I personally think it is about the financial fair play regs.

At the time the move to lower wages commenced we had qualified for Europe, had done the previous 2 seasons as well, therefore the regs def would have applied to the club and we were some way off meeting them.

As I said it looks like we've tried to address the problem a season or 2 earlier than most clubs in the league, and that may have been inspired in some way by Lerner wanting to keep hold of some of his cash, but when players are on 3,4 or 5 year contracts you cant slash your wage bill overnight.

I think what we will see over the next season or 2 is a number of other clubs looking to reduce their expenditure in order to comply and therefore our relative position will increase.

Granted it might not be as strong as it was before inder MoN, but that is simply down to our income, and therefore spending power, as opposed to other clubs.

On ther other hand there would be little point in continuing as was, or employing only a slightly reduced expediture, and not being able to play in europe had we qualified.

If randy genuinely is not prepared to foot the bill then he'd simply cut his losses and sell.

I may be wrong but it's just how I read the situation, I think things will be very different once clubs 'have' to comply with the regs, can't wait to see what city do with their squad.

[VillaRoy]

This open letter from a Cleveland local makes an interesting read;

Randy,

As a rational adult currently residing 30 miles from Cleveland, I am in awe of your management skills. For the life of me, I cannot understand how Browns fans have not given up on the franchise. I told myself that I do not understand the connection to the team because I did not grow up in the area. Consequently, I started to research how laughable your reign as owner of the Cleveland Browns and Aston Villa FC has been and I must say I am impressed by your ineptitude.

Firstly, I would like to personally congratulate you for owning clubs in the two richest leagues in the world. Furthermore, your incompetent dual mismanagement is second to none. I know it can be hard to piss of two undeniably loyal fan-bases simultaneously.

In Birmingham, you handed a three year contract to a manager that plays boring football, led his team to relegation in his previous job, and quit that job through email even though they wanted to keep him. And that team he got relegated was your arch rival!

In Cleveland, your team has amassed a 56-104 record in ten years under your ownership. The Browns have made the playoffs once during this stretch and have had a winning record twice.

And now, you demand that the City of Cleveland, a depressed metropolis in the heart of the rust belt, pays $5.8 million for updates to your stadium. Taxing the city that funds your club even though you have humiliated their once proud brand is quite the novel premise I must say.

Meanwhile, the Villa fan-base that was fervently behind your ownership when you bought the club in 2006 is starting to sway. Martin O’Neill managed your side to 6th place in three consecutive campaigns, bringing European Football to Villa Park. It was glory days once again. However, you and Martin hated each other and he quit. In fact, he hated you so much he waited to walk out until the season started so you would have limited managers to choose from. I bet that made you pretty upset.

To avoid getting your feelings hurt across the pond, you have empowered an agent to control the Browns. His client list includes your Team President, General Manager, Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and Offensive Assistant. No, his name is not Kia Joorabchian, but it is Bob Lamonte. Is this clear conflict of interest the best path for your franchise to take?

Your Cleveland fan-base has remained unquestionably loyal since the Browns returned in 1999. After all, Northeast Ohio is a blue collar football hotbed (the hall of fame is located here). Season ticket sales increased in 2011 by one thousand despite a 5-11 season. However, attendance dipped to 6,000 below the 72,000 capacity. I know it must hurt seeing all the empty orange seats especially towards the end of the year. Or even worse, at the end of the year Steelers fans take over the stadium and waive those horrible yellow terrible towels.

With all this doom and gloom, how can I possibly believe you can turn these two depleted hopeless clubs around, Randy? Maybe you have studied other successful clubs and have come up with possible solutions. Hypothetically;

Are you replicating Manchester City’s model to incur record losses to improve the squad? After all, you have reportedly lost 92 million pounds in the last two years. This unprecedented amount can only mean the squad has been strengthened to fight for the top four, correct?

Are you rebuilding the Browns on a three year plan? The reality indicates this three year plan has been going on for nine years… but who is counting anyway. Each offseason the fans get excited because they are ‘one step’ closer to the Super Bowl, a la the New Orleans Saints and Arizona Cardinals from recent years. Due to the socialist salary cap rules, in the NFL parity reigns supreme.

Additionally, I read that you visited the Villa training ground last week to inspire the team. Or perhaps you were offering bounties on the upcoming opponent’s heads. Like Greg Williams said, “Kill the head and the body will die.” Hell, it brought a Super Bowl home for the Saints.

Is your recent opening up to the fans and local Cleveland media an increased effort of endearing yourself after years of solitude? I saw that you visited with Dawg Pound Mike to try and curry favor with disgruntled season ticket holders.

For the sake of Villa fans, Randy, I hope you do not spiral their club into a Cleveland like abyss. After all, the Browns fans seem to enjoy losing, almost boasting to the world how much they have suffered. Losing in England, will obviously result in relegation (not sure if you knew that because the Venky’s definitely did not). Financially, relegation would be a disaster for your club, thank god that it does not exist in the NFL!

Should the Villa and Browns fans give you the benefit of the doubt? Maybe you are suffering from inexperience or bad luck… Or maybe you are just an incompetent leader who happens to be a billionaire.

Dear Mr. Lerner

Depressing read about a seemingly incompetent owner.

[iancharlie]

andres villas boas...he could do with villa what he was attempting to do with chelski without changing much as our youth is there already...

[mjmooney]

andres villas boas...he could do with villa what he was attempting to do with chelski without changing much as our youth is there already...

I'm damn sure we could have got him instead of McLeish, IF Randy would/could have promised him a larger war chest. And we would have been a better 'fit' for him than Chelsea.

Now? I very much doubt it.

[PussEKatt]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

So, he can't afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th and qualifying for europe every year.But he can afford the wages of a team finishing just above the drop zone every year ?

So where does that leave us :?: :?: :?:

[Big_John_10]

I notice those that defend Randy seem to ignore how terrible the browns have been under him.

It's quite clear he is not very good at running a sports team.

That letter is depressing because I have no doubt we will be a nothing team under Lerner.

[juanpabloangel18]

andres villas boas...he could do with villa what he was attempting to do with chelski without changing much as our youth is there already...

I'm damn sure we could have got him instead of McLeish

Jesus, really? He was one of the most sought-after manager's in world football last summer.

Unbeaten season with Porto + Europa champions > Aston Villa.

[PieFacE]

Its not about complying with Financial Fair Play as those regs only matter if you are in Europe and we are a very long way from that aren't we. The change in approach with wages was about stopping us going bust because we couldn't sustain it from income and Randy was no longer willing to foot the bill.

The financial fair play thing is nothing but a handy excuse.

So, he can't afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th and qualifying for europe every year.But he can afford the wages of a team finishing just above the drop zone every year ?

So where does that leave us :?: :?: :?:

Everything isn't as black and white as that though, is it?

"He cant afford the wages of a team capable of finishing 6th"

So how much does a team finishing 6th cost? There's no definitive answer on that, it's down to whatever manager is in place.

I'm sure if we had a similar squad to Everton or Newcastle we could afford the wages which they pay out. That's because they don't have players like Heskey on 65k a week doing feck all. We need to get rid of these players before we can start again. Will Randy put money back into the club once the squad has been stripped of it's high earners? Only Randy knows that.

[Big_John_10]

At Villa we tend be reluctant to accept that due to financial contraints we have fallen behind other clubs we were regulary finishing above previously

No we don't.

What you're ignoring is that we are looking likely to finish with our lowest points total since the premiership began. We are looking likely to finish with the lowest amount of wins we've ever had in a premiership season. We came incredibly close to breaking two terrible club records.

This isn't about failing to accept we've fallen behind. This is about refusing to accept the appalling level we've fallen to.