smetrov Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 This thread all seems a bit far fetched (though neatly fitting into the traditional VT mindset I might add). I think we can all accept the following - Randy is done in terms of funding us to be truly competitive in the league. He is now trying to maintain us in the league while balancing the books. - He is open to selling the club and apparently Red Bull are wanting to buy one. The thing nobody seems to be mentioning is that Randy has a pretty massive fetish when it comes to history so the idea that he would sell to an organisation intent on ripping that all out and re-branding us as an energy drink is beyond mental. He has a tattoo of our name on his leg for christs sake which will look a bit odd if we then become Red Bull Birmingham and it was all his doing! I think youre mostly right here However if a chance presented for Randy to get his money back - he might find an offer from anyone hard to resist and given the Mcleish and Houllier appointments - would Randy know a good owner from a bad one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 This thread all seems a bit far fetched (though neatly fitting into the traditional VT mindset I might add). I think we can all accept the following - Randy is done in terms of funding us to be truly competitive in the league. He is now trying to maintain us in the league while balancing the books. - He is open to selling the club and apparently Red Bull are wanting to buy one. The thing nobody seems to be mentioning is that Randy has a pretty massive fetish when it comes to history so the idea that he would sell to an organisation intent on ripping that all out and re-branding us as an energy drink is beyond mental. He has a tattoo of our name on his leg for christs sake which will look a bit odd if we then become Red Bull Birmingham and it was all his doing! Well we have been linked to Red Bull, so we are discussing the link. If we were bought by Red Bull, the entire club would be rebranded because that is what they do and that is what they've done EVERYWHERE or the purchase, for them, would be pointless. No one is saying it's going to happen, we're discussing what would happen if it did. So how is that "a bit far fetched (though neatly fitting into the traditional VT mindset I might add)"? I don't know how to make it any clearer. No issue with people discussing whatever they want. I'm just saying that given what we know about Randy (history fetish) the idea he would sell the club to an organisation who would destroy that history seems a little far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Just out interest - is there anyone out there who is still on board with Lerner ? - ie do you still beleive that once the finances are sorted we can move forward under his ownership - not a witch hunt - just trying to gauge what Level of support Lerner still has ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Look. History says they strip the soul out of the clubs. Thats their game plan. If they buy us they will do it. I just dont see the point in spending so much to buy ASTON VILLA and then strip it. Out of curiosity have they had any success with their clubs? what have they spent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm just saying that given what we know about Randy (history fetish) the idea he would sell the club to an organisation who would destroy that history seems a little far fetched. To be fair, that's with things he's interested in. There's not much sign of him being interested in AVFC any more. Interested in his monies - yes. Interest in the actual club, and it's well-being. I'd suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Look. History says they strip the soul out of the clubs. Thats their game plan. If they buy us they will do it. I just dont see the point in spending so much to buy ASTON VILLA and then strip it. That's exactly what they do. And they will get more exposure from doing that than keeping the name etc. Red Bull Birmingham, or whatever, is a name worth a lot more to them that Aston Villa which doesn't display the name of their product. The name Red Bull is worth more than Aston Villa to them. I think the FA would stop such a thing though - and I imagine that is one of the many reasons why this is a non-starter and nothing to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Just out interest - is there anyone out there who is still on board with Lerner ? - ie do you still beleive that once the finances are sorted we can move forward under his ownership - not a witch hunt - just trying to gauge what Level of support Lerner still has ? I've been generally supportive of Lerner for a long time (in a kind of better the devil you know way) but I'm on the turn now. I don't see what the point is to run us as a middle of the road (at best) club. He may get us to a point and then reinvest but I dont really see it happening based on the last few years. Circumstances have changed since he bought the club. He was a big owner when he came in, now he is dwarfed by a number of other owners so he's out of his depth. He knows that and wants out, so we should want that too but only if we can get someone else in who's better. Edited January 16, 2014 by villaglint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Just out interest - is there anyone out there who is still on board with Lerner ? - ie do you still beleive that once the finances are sorted we can move forward under his ownership - not a witch hunt - just trying to gauge what Level of support Lerner still has ? Yep, I am. I don't see any reason why we can't build from where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hev Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Maybe Red Bull might buy Southampton - ready made colours! "Red Bull Saints" very American Edited January 16, 2014 by Hev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbonla-score Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm still ok with Lerner. I think it is wholly unrealistic to expect anyone to donate their own money to our club the way some people expect. I wonder how many people on this forum who complain about the amount of money Lerner 'invests' would actually give their own money to the club to gamble on players, because that is exactly what you are asking Lerner to do. ...and when I say give money to the club, I'm not talking about paying to watch a game or buying a replica shirt because that's paying for goods and services. I mean, actually donate money for nothing in return or the risk of nothing in return. Football club Chairmen generally don't donate their own money to their clubs for nothing in return (other than the Sheik at City and Abramovich at Chelsea who are exceptions to the rule. They have so much money the football club is a toy to them). The fact is, the club cannot generate the amount of income to make it viable to spend big money on player transfers or wages. We don't have a large worldwide fan base that spend billions on merchandise like Man U, Liverpool Arsenal etc. I would rather have the boss of a massive financial institution steadying the ship rather than a someone like Peter Risdale (Leeds back in the early 00's) or the boneheads at Coventry who destroyed their clubs with poor business acumen. As much as a div Falkner is for some of his decisions, at least he's trying to build the brand off the field so we can grow in a healthy way. Then again, I've probably bought into the propaganda and I'm a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Nicola Cortese has no money - so he himself won't be buying Aston Villa. However the job he has done at Southampton, highlights the weakness of Faulkner.... you keep saying this but what weakness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The hull city owner seems to be having issues with changing part of the name so I doubt red bull would be able to change everything easily. In regards to Lerner i don't see how you can have faith. His massive errors have cost us and now with income down and low league finishes he's made it hard for us to be a competitive team again. A lot blind faith towards the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The hull city owner seems to be having issues with changing part of the name so I doubt red bull would be able to change everything easily. In regards to Lerner i don't see how you can have faith. His massive errors have cost us and now with income down and low league finishes he's made it hard for us to be a competitive team again. A lot blind faith towards the future. You don't have to understand, just accept that some have a different opinion. It shouldn't be that hard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2014 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2014 The hull city owner seems to be having issues with changing part of the name so I doubt red bull would be able to change everything easily. Yep, wouldn't be able to sponsor the shirt either if I'm not mistaken. Re: Lerner. My opinion on him is that I still think he gets harsh criticism from a lot of people. I do think the cut backs have been necessary to a certain extent to save the long term future of the club, financially. However, I think it's becoming clear that Lerner isn't willing to invest the money any more to make the club better. For that reason I find myself unhappy. It's his club so he's within his rights not to do that, and I realise it's part of the "waaaaaa he doesn't spend enough money" point of view. But that's the way of football. To compete we have to spend, and Randy isn't going to do that (it would appear) It leaves me in a precarious situation. On the one hand, I'd like to see Randy sell, as it could (COULD) give us an owner who is willing to spend what it takes. However, getting a new owner is a dangerous business. It could quite easily go the way of Birmingham City or Blackburn. Overall, I'm still grateful to Lerner. He took over at a time when we were almost certainly getting relegated. He invested a lot of money in a push for the Champions League and had us all believing it would happen. He's made some mistakes, some big ones (giving MON too much free reign on finances, appointing McLeish etc) but I do think his intentions have always been good. He just stretched himself too far and we're now paying the price. But as I said, it's a price that we had to pay to secure our financial future. What would I prefer, mediocrity under Lerner, or risk another owner who could either bring us success or meltdown? I honestly don't know 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The hull city owner seems to be having issues with changing part of the name so I doubt red bull would be able to change everything easily. Yep, wouldn't be able to sponsor the shirt either if I'm not mistaken. Re: Lerner. My opinion on him is that I still think he gets harsh criticism from a lot of people. I do think the cut backs have been necessary to a certain extent to save the long term future of the club, financially. However, I think it's becoming clear that Lerner isn't willing to invest the money any more to make the club better. For that reason I find myself unhappy. It's his club so he's within his rights not to do that, and I realise it's part of the "waaaaaa he doesn't spend enough money" point of view. But that's the way of football. To compete we have to spend, and Randy isn't going to do that (it would appear) It leaves me in a precarious situation. On the one hand, I'd like to see Randy sell, as it could (COULD) give us an owner who is willing to spend what it takes. However, getting a new owner is a dangerous business. It could quite easily go the way of Birmingham City or Blackburn. Overall, I'm still grateful to Lerner. He took over at a time when we were almost certainly getting relegated. He invested a lot of money in a push for the Champions League and had us all believing it would happen. He's made some mistakes, some big ones (giving MON too much free reign on finances, appointing McLeish etc) but I do think his intentions have always been good. He just stretched himself too far and we're now paying the price. But as I said, it's a price that we had to pay to secure our financial future. What would I prefer, mediocrity under Lerner, or risk another owner who could either bring us success or meltdown? I honestly don't know This is spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Overall, I'm still grateful to Lerner. But ultimately he's risked our premiership survival and is damaging our ability to become competitive again in the long term so he doesn't lose out. A billionnaire causing problems for our club so he doesn't Lose out financially doesn't sit right with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveburnside Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Cuts were necessary but he's done it to fast and too hard to the point where we are in a relegation battle every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Just out interest - is there anyone out there who is still on board with Lerner ? - ie do you still beleive that once the finances are sorted we can move forward under his ownership - not a witch hunt - just trying to gauge what Level of support Lerner still has ? I've always been 100% behind Randy & Lambo & all though I am not privy to what goes on behind the scenes I'm pretty confident that these guys actually do know what they're doing & the current necessary financial economic policy & investment in young, vibrant potential that has been implemented will eventually reap it's reward. The fact that we are now actively looking to bring in some more experience too will only aid the Clubs further development. Once we are firmly back on an even keel our acceleration will hopefully become more discernible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I am unsure on Lerner, i definately think there is more going on behind the scenes than is coming out. I do actually think he is more interested still than it would appear with him not attending games etc too. I am very much of the "Richard Branston" viewpoint on business where you need to go for the very top, accept there will be failure en route but enjoy it and learn from it as it's all really part of the process of becoming successful. I don't buy into the "We have no Worldwide fanbase" thing either. We have some fans based abroad for sure and likely more than we realize from what i have seen on my travels. Especially in places like Sweden, Denmark, USA and a few others. This does not concern me as although we are nowhere near the plastic fan levels of Man U and Chelsea this would change as we started to get a bit of success...provided our marketing team were on the ball and took advantage of it.... In other words i,m not concerned about our overseas fanbase ...Because we can get one! So that is something to aspire to not use as a reason to hold the club back.. So for me it's a question of firstly getting the club into Europe, likely the Europa league initially of course. Now we know this would stretch the squad to it's limits so that would need to be prepared for or we would need to throw the towel in MON stylee. Open to debate on that one. But ultimately it's the Champions league (Or should we call it the top 4ers league) which is what builds your global fan base so that has to be the ultimate goal of course. That is tough for sure but then if the club is streamlined, which it already is now, and then year on year we improve the quality of the team which appears to be the plan now, then i do think it's a realistic goal. I view Randy's failure to come to games at present as a bit like taking your car in to the garage to have a replacement engine.... You leave them to it until its ready to go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveburnside Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Just out interest - is there anyone out there who is still on board with Lerner ? - ie do you still beleive that once the finances are sorted we can move forward under his ownership - not a witch hunt - just trying to gauge what Level of support Lerner still has ? I've always been 100% behind Randy & Lambo & all though I am not privy to what goes on behind the scenes I'm pretty confident that these guys actually do know what they're doing & the current necessary financial economic policy & investment in young, vibrant potential that has been implemented will eventually reap it's reward. The fact that we are now actively looking to bring in some more experience too will only aid the Clubs further development. Once we are firmly back on an even keel our acceleration will hopefully become more discernible. When will we start seeing that then? Post reads like a Paul Faulkner interview. Edited January 16, 2014 by Daveburnside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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