The Randy Lerner thread

[TRO]

 

 

This club is in serious decline, and there's only one man to blame - Randy Lerner

Mmm, and no.

The club's been worse, a lot worse. But you have a point, it's not exactly pulling up trees. It's below where we'd like and where we all think it could, should and ought to be.

The main thing I take issue with is that it's "all" Randy Lerner's fault. It just isn't IMO

If we won the league, it wouldn't be all his credit. If we "fail" it's not all his fault. The same factors apply.

That's not defending him, for the sake of it, just pointing out that Villa's fortunes depend and are affected by more than one soul. Anyone who thinks differently, go ahead....persuade me it's only Randy and all Randy's fault.

He's ultimately responsible for the club, but he's not in control of results, and nor is any owner/CEO/chairman.

Randy didn't cause us to lose to Sheffield Utd. The Sheff Utd. chairman didn't cause them to (deservedly) beat us last saturday. Players, managers, others share the story.

Ultimately the buck stops with the man at the top and the man at the top is Randy Lerner.

We've got a team packed with players who are Championship standard, and the reason they're at Villa is because Lerner won't pay Premier League wages.

He is at fault 100%.

 

 

 

He has payed premier league wages to players that arguably did'nt produce premier league results and is now having to balance the books.

 

He now needs the confidence to go again, but I'm not sure what that is based on.

 

quite frankly, I hav'nt got a clue whether we will be any better off if Paul Lambert had the money.....and I am no more convinced if we dumped Lambert and got another manager whether that would fix it.

 

In a complete nutshell I have lost faith in anyone at Villa park with or without money has the ability to bring in players that are better than what we have got.

[TRO]

 

 

 

I think the shackles are going to be on until this guy sells up. It's quite clear he wants out now, he's lost intrest and cutting costs (like Ellis did) to make us a more viable purchase. I think it will take a lot longer to find a new owner, we're not as much a bargain when Lerner took over, and with the new TV deal it's probably trebled the value of the club.

Everton have been up for sale for years, I think we better get used to this shite under Lerner.

I always think the big problem Everton have is that any potential buyer knows that their first job after buying Everton would be to pay for a new stadium to be built. Goodison has thousands of restricted views, its capacity reduces every so often and there may come a point where it doesn't get the required safety certificate for parts of it.

At least we have a big, good quality stadium as our main asset for any potential buyer.

 

And we are a big club situated in a major city with no serious rivals. We could easily attract potential buyers.

 

There is a big problem with that.

 

Birmingham, unlike Manchester and Liverpool, has surrendered thousands of fans to Sky 4 clubs in the past 10 years.

 

 

Theres a surprise.... we have been under performing in one way or another for years, with the exception of 6-6-6 which produced results away from home and a sqwiggin of home wins allied to a counter attacking style akin to what we are now, but a better version, there's no wonder so many have passed us over.

 

This football we are producing at home is only for the diehards, the marginals have long gone.

[TRO]

I'm just glad it hasn't been my money....I would have run for a bunker.

 

I might be wrong, but I think the Martin O'Neill Scenario/Saga finished Randy....The other 2 appointments never helped, but I think MON departure was the catalyst.

 

I think he was a  changed man for us after that.

[islingtonclaret]

 

There is a big problem with that.

 

Birmingham, unlike Manchester and Liverpool, has surrendered thousands of fans to Sky 4 clubs in the past 10 years.

 

Irrelevant. If you are willing to build a good team the fan base will increase, simple. We have a huge catchment area and no real successful teams in miles, we are more attractive than Everton IMO. 

 

Going between other posts on this, it's somewhere in the middle. There is no successful team for miles, agreed, but I wouldn't say we're a more attractive prospect as they have been consistent and we have not. They can regularly sell out their ground because of that, we didn't during our revival under Lerner with O'Neill and the more successful recent years. I still think, in my opinion, that we are hemorrhaging fans faster than any other club of our size.

[GENTLEMAN]

Going between other posts on this, it's somewhere in the middle. There is no successful team for miles, agreed, but I wouldn't say we're a more attractive prospect as they have been consistent and we have not

 

The consistent success of a club is not the only factor for a buy out, I am pretty sure there is much more research done before buying a club. PSG and Manchester City would not have been considered or bought by mega rich owners by that logic. Judging from history, we would be an ideal candidate for a very wealthy backer I would imagine.

 

They can regularly sell out their ground because of that, we didn't during our revival under Lerner with O'Neill and the more successful recent years

 

Our football at home was terrible under MON and that includes victories. But even still we were only a few thousand away from being at full capacity at most games during O'Neill's time. I was staggered we got a full attendance against Bradford last year, it showed the following we have potentially got at this club. 

 

Everton have been consistently strong at home for many years and are also a big club, it is no real surprise they regularly achieve full attendances. 

 

I still think, in my opinion, that we are hemorrhaging fans faster than any other club of our size.

 

We have a dormant fan base IMO. Those fans would easily come back if the club started showing some ambition on and off the pitch.

Edited January 11, 2014 by GENTLEMAN

[mjames333]

Lerner should have had the bollocks to sack O'Neill after his third season if he was that unhappy with the money spent and where we were in the league. We should have been top 4 with all that money spent or at least setting up the club for long term success and sustainability in at least the top 6. Lerner is an idiot who never quite understood how to run a football club and now thinks he can take the US sports approach of selling off the top earners and bringing through young players who will eventually mature into a good team. The only problems are a thing called relegation and a terrible recruitment system which leaves us with mediore players with little prospect of success.

[lexicon]

Lerner gave Lambert some funds in the summer to improve the side a bit - he bought quite a few players for this money, some obviously to be squad players/competition and others to play in the first team. 

 

The fact is:

 

- We started off with some absolutely **** horrible fixtures (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool first three games) and made a decent fist of it. 

- Shortly after this, we lose one first choice CB who looked pretty damn good; despite this we get 7 points from the next 3 games.

- A couple of wobbly games against decent opponents and we go on a 5 game unbeaten run, taking 9 points from 5.

- Vlaar gets injured, so our other first choice CB is out, leaving a couple of young, relatively inexperienced CBs in a team with its captain out and no other leader there. We lose 5 on the bounce.

- 4 points from the last 2 in the league sees us sitting in 11th, despite only having Vlaar for 70 minutes.

 

The picture I'm painting here and the question I'm asking, is what team doesn't do a lot worse when their first choice CBs are out? How can you assume that both of them are going to get injuries? It's hideous luck. 

At the end of the day, Randy put in some cash and we bought quite a few players in the summer, whilst getting rid of more of the shit, overpaid ones - Randy did what he needed to do and I don't see why the problems we have are his fault. 

Everybody seemed to be in favour of a root and branch change of the playing staff and taking the problems it produces on the chin but so few are willing to stick it out when the going gets tough. I think Randy and Lambert are doing the right thing, as evidenced by our league position, but there is still a long way to go. There's no doubt we can play good football, the players have shown previously that they're capable of it and we've had some horrible luck with injuries so far. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the end of the transfer window next summer - when we can start looking at spending more money on fewer players, because we're not worried about how paper thin the squad used to be. 

[Big_John_10]

Our problems came about originally because our wage bill was not sustainable. I'm not sure how Lerner can't be blamed for this. Yes you can question certain signings but ultimately the owner should know what's coming in, what's going out and what level of that the club can handle.

So we've reached a point where spending is at a level we can't continue and we lose our manager. So what do we do? Hire an old manager who hasn't managed for years with a history of serious health problems. And because that manager was performing so badly we then go and spend a shit load of cash on one player to keep us in the league. Unsurprisingly, a man with health issues in the past has serious health issues again and we ended up paying more compensation to a manager.

So we're a club with financial problems who in the space of 12 months pay two managers millions in compensation and smash the club transfer record. Yeah that will solve all our issues.

So what do we do next? Let's pay our rivals more compensation for a failure of a manager. This is probably the worst managerial appointment any premiership club has ever made. It was never going to work. And what happens? We buy average players and give them big contracts. Another smart plan to sort out our finances. Then just like last year no surprise that yet again we end up paying compensation to yet another manager.

So two years after realising our finances were bad, we've now paid 3 managers compensation and we've now replaced average players on high wages with more average players on high wages.

The next step we finally bring in a manager the majority wanted. We're now such a mess though that this manager has to work with seriously low wages and because of that gambles in the transfer market. This results in our worst ever premiership start but we improve lots at the end and just about survive.

According to the most knowledgeable ITK I've seen on here the manager is then given £10 million to buy new players and none of them are on more than £15,000 a week.

We now have a very average squad, playing arguably the worst football in the league and that 11th place is little comfort when you see us play. We are currently not able to financially compete with a lot of teams in terms of wages that we will offer.

It seems the plan is for the club now to spend what they can afford, because of the previous 3 years and the drop we've had this now means that the club has become weaker and have allowed other clubs to become financially stronger. With the new TV deal I don't think we could have picked a worse time to drop so much. Like i said in a previous post clubs like Newcastle and Everton earnt lots more money in the 11/12 season by finishing so far ahead of us. So how are we going to start competing with those teams? Finishing low in the league again is going to lead us to become even weaker and less able to financially compete. And ultimately we are in this position because of the decisions the owner made.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Big_John_10

[useless]

I found this which is apparently a quote from the 'Secret Footballer', on a Wolverhampton Wanderers talkboard, apart from the owner being willing to sell up for 40 Million, everything else sounds like it could describe us.

 

 

"My first call was to the owner of a big Midlands club that have been down on their luck for some time. They pull in huge crowds, have planning permission to take their capacity close to 50,000 and offer first-class training facilities. There’s a huge amount of work that goes into these deals but the starting point is always a friendly call followed by lunch. During that lunch the owner told me that he had other interests that he wanted to pursue and that maybe it was time for someone new to come in, throw some money at the club and see what happened. “What would you want for it?” I asked. He didn’t hesitate, “Lock, stock and barrel, I’d take £40m,” he said. For a broker whose business would net between 10 and 20 per cent of any deal, that’s a hell of a payday

[dudevillaisnice]

I don't see an owner giving figures out to a "secret footballer" or any other footballer.

[samjp26]

I don't see an owner giving figures out to a "secret footballer" or any other footballer.

Especially not Dave Kitson

[useless]

I don't see an owner giving figures out to a "secret footballer" or any other footballer.

 

Yeh I agree, I read on a bit and the suggestion was that this so called 'Secret Footballer' is Dave Kitson, so not sure what he'd have to do with anything regarding the sale of any club.

[lexicon]

Our problems came about originally because our wage bill was not sustainable. I'm not sure how Lerner can't be blamed for this. Yes you can question certain signings but ultimately the owner should know what's coming in, what's going out and what level of that the club can handle.

So we've reached a point where spending is at a level we can't continue and we lose our manager. So what do we do? Hire an old manager who hasn't managed for years with a history of serious health problems. And because that manager was performing so badly we then go and spend a shit load of cash on one player to keep us in the league. Unsurprisingly, a man with health issues in the past has serious health issues again and we ended up paying more compensation to a manager.

So we're a club with financial problems who in the space of 12 months pay two managers millions in compensation and smash the club transfer record. Yeah that will solve all our issues.

So what do we do next? Let's pay our rivals more compensation for a failure of a manager. This is probably the worst managerial appointment any premiership club has ever made. It was never going to work. And what happens? We buy average players and give them big contracts. Another smart plan to sort out our finances. Then just like last year no surprise that yet again we end up paying compensation to yet another manager.

So two years after realising our finances were bad, we've now paid 3 managers compensation and we've now replaced average players on high wages with more average players on high wages.

The next step we finally bring in a manager the majority wanted. We're now such a mess though that this manager has to work with seriously low wages and because of that gambles in the transfer market. This results in our worst ever premiership start but we improve lots at the end and just about survive.

According to the most knowledgeable ITK I've seen on here the manager is then given £10 million to buy new players and none of them are on more than £15,000 a week.

We now have a very average squad, playing arguably the worst football in the league and that 11th place is little comfort when you see us play. We are currently not able to financially compete with a lot of teams in terms of wages that we will offer.

It seems the plan is for the club now to spend what they can afford, because of the previous 3 years and the drop we've had this now means that the club has become weaker and have allowed other clubs to become financially stronger. With the new TV deal I don't think we could have picked a worse time to drop so much. Like i said in a previous post clubs like Newcastle and Everton earnt lots more money in the 11/12 season by finishing so far ahead of us. So how are we going to start competing with those teams? Finishing low in the league again is going to lead us to become even weaker and less able to financially compete. And ultimately we are in this position because of the decisions the owner made.

 

There's not doubt that bad decisions have been made but what you seem to be failing or unwilling to see is that we're in the middle of a massive rebuild. Lambert's task was to start afresh, get rid of the shit at the club and have a platform to build on. We're getting to the point where signing more expensive players on higher wages to add quality rather than the numbers is a viable option - you can't honestly think that we'll be forever in a cycle of having to sign 6 players every summer? 

 

Comparing us to other clubs is a waste of time but to humour you; Everton -  didn't have the older, overpaid problem players and a much more settled side that was built up over years by David Moyes. Newcastle - relegated, had to get rid of a shitload of overpaid players and made some good signings but then it's easier as Ashley is a lot richer than Randy.

 

Randy made some mistakes in the past but I'd say he's learning from them. 

[HeyAnty]

Randy deserves more respect than is currently being afforded to him on this site IMO.

 

His humility is deafening & an example to us all.

 

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too.

 

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

 

Lerner in, that's what I say & long may he reign.

 

Give him the red card? No chance.

 

Give him the red carpet? Now your talkin'.

 

Take a bow Randy son, take a bow!

For the first three statements, explain why and I may respect your post. Simply posting something with no substance behind it is pointless. I.e.

His humility is deafening & an example to us all?

 

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too?

 

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

 

I will not elaborate further on any of the points raised as they are not pointless but self explanatory. Is Randy humble? Yes. Am I proud he is Chairman? Yes. Does Randy have an ego? No.

 

What is there to elaborate on? What don't you understand?

They aren't self explanatory to me and I'd bet loads others on here think the same. But here if you want to spout rubbish IMO without backing it up with anything then that's your choice. Just makes your points meaningless

[Big_John_10]

Randy deserves more respect than is currently being afforded to him on this site IMO.

His humility is deafening & an example to us all.

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too.

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

Lerner in, that's what I say & long may he reign.

Give him the red card? No chance.

Give him the red carpet? Now your talkin'.

Take a bow Randy son, take a bow!

For the first three statements, explain why and I may respect your post. Simply posting something with no substance behind it is pointless. I.e.

His humility is deafening & an example to us all?

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too?

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

I will not elaborate further on any of the points raised as they are not pointless but self explanatory. Is Randy humble? Yes. Am I proud he is Chairman? Yes. Does Randy have an ego? No.

What is there to elaborate on? What don't you understand?

They aren't self explanatory to me and I'd bet loads others on here think the same. But here if you want to spout rubbish IMO without backing it up with anything then that's your choice. Just makes your points meaningless

He can't back it up because they were ridiculous statements made to get a reaction.

[Big_John_10]

but what you seem to be failing or unwilling to see is that we're in the middle of a massive rebuild.

Have I? I accept we're cutting costs but you assume its part of a plan that will see us competitive again whereas I haven't seen much evidence of that. Also that's fine but this massive rebuild is because of the owners past decision making which he should be held responsible for.

Comparing us to other clubs is a waste of time but to humour you; Everton - didn't have the older, overpaid problem players and a much more settled side that was built up over years by David Moyes. Newcastle - relegated, had to get rid of a shitload of overpaid players and made some good signings but then it's easier as Ashley is a lot richer than Randy.

You've missed the point. Those of you that continue to defend Lerner and seem happy with the plan to spend what we can afford in the future, fail to acknowledge that he's put us in a position where this strategy will make it a lot harder to financially compete. Our poor league finishes are allowing other teams to build a financial advantage on us which makes this new plan so many of you are pleased with nothing but a battle to achieve mid table mediocrity.

[villa-revolution]

 

 

 

 

Randy deserves more respect than is currently being afforded to him on this site IMO.

His humility is deafening & an example to us all.

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too.

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

Lerner in, that's what I say & long may he reign.

Give him the red card? No chance.

Give him the red carpet? Now your talkin'.

Take a bow Randy son, take a bow!

For the first three statements, explain why and I may respect your post. Simply posting something with no substance behind it is pointless. I.e.

His humility is deafening & an example to us all?

I'm proud he is the Chairman of Aston Villa & no doubt he is too?

It's very rare these days that you find a man with such dignity & with no ego given his high profile & status, but Randy is certainly that man.

I will not elaborate further on any of the points raised as they are not pointless but self explanatory. Is Randy humble? Yes. Am I proud he is Chairman? Yes. Does Randy have an ego? No.

What is there to elaborate on? What don't you understand?

They aren't self explanatory to me and I'd bet loads others on here think the same. But here if you want to spout rubbish IMO without backing it up with anything then that's your choice. Just makes your points meaningless

He can't back it up because they were ridiculous statements made to get a reaction.

 

 

No. I have been off site. It's not my fault  if the deliberate exegesis of some posters only masks their obtuseness regarding my post.

 

Ask yourselves this question:

 

Some posters already see that the post needs no further explanation.

[Big_John_10]

Is that a question?

[foreveryoung]

 

Our problems came about originally because our wage bill was not sustainable. I'm not sure how Lerner can't be blamed for this. Yes you can question certain signings but ultimately the owner should know what's coming in, what's going out and what level of that the club can handle.

So we've reached a point where spending is at a level we can't continue and we lose our manager. So what do we do? Hire an old manager who hasn't managed for years with a history of serious health problems. And because that manager was performing so badly we then go and spend a shit load of cash on one player to keep us in the league. Unsurprisingly, a man with health issues in the past has serious health issues again and we ended up paying more compensation to a manager.

So we're a club with financial problems who in the space of 12 months pay two managers millions in compensation and smash the club transfer record. Yeah that will solve all our issues.

So what do we do next? Let's pay our rivals more compensation for a failure of a manager. This is probably the worst managerial appointment any premiership club has ever made. It was never going to work. And what happens? We buy average players and give them big contracts. Another smart plan to sort out our finances. Then just like last year no surprise that yet again we end up paying compensation to yet another manager.

So two years after realising our finances were bad, we've now paid 3 managers compensation and we've now replaced average players on high wages with more average players on high wages.

The next step we finally bring in a manager the majority wanted. We're now such a mess though that this manager has to work with seriously low wages and because of that gambles in the transfer market. This results in our worst ever premiership start but we improve lots at the end and just about survive.

According to the most knowledgeable ITK I've seen on here the manager is then given £10 million to buy new players and none of them are on more than £15,000 a week.

We now have a very average squad, playing arguably the worst football in the league and that 11th place is little comfort when you see us play. We are currently not able to financially compete with a lot of teams in terms of wages that we will offer.

It seems the plan is for the club now to spend what they can afford, because of the previous 3 years and the drop we've had this now means that the club has become weaker and have allowed other clubs to become financially stronger. With the new TV deal I don't think we could have picked a worse time to drop so much. Like i said in a previous post clubs like Newcastle and Everton earnt lots more money in the 11/12 season by finishing so far ahead of us. So how are we going to start competing with those teams? Finishing low in the league again is going to lead us to become even weaker and less able to financially compete. And ultimately we are in this position because of the decisions the owner made.

 

There's not doubt that bad decisions have been made but what you seem to be failing or unwilling to see is that we're in the middle of a massive rebuild. Lambert's task was to start afresh, get rid of the shit at the club and have a platform to build on. We're getting to the point where signing more expensive players on higher wages to add quality rather than the numbers is a viable option - you can't honestly think that we'll be forever in a cycle of having to sign 6 players every summer? 

 

Comparing us to other clubs is a waste of time but to humour you; Everton -  didn't have the older, overpaid problem players and a much more settled side that was built up over years by David Moyes. Newcastle - relegated, had to get rid of a shitload of overpaid players and made some good signings but then it's easier as Ashley is a lot richer than Randy.

 

Randy made some mistakes in the past but I'd say he's learning from them. 

 

Are you making up posts?  Mike Ashley has no where near as much money as Lerner. Also from the O'neil debarcle Villa have spent a hell of alot more money on transfers than Newcastle have.

Its all down to not having top experienced football people at the club. Many Owners in the league are not footballing savvy but its the people behind them that run the club. No footballing man would have employed McLeish for villa this decision was made by someone with no history of football.

Dont get me wrong Villa have made some terrible decisions, but Lerner is being advised very badly and im not sure why this is still happening...............

[Risso]

Mike Ashley is a LOT richer than Lerner.