Condimentalist Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Crowds are up, support is pretty good right now. What exactly are you looking for? We'll have to do better than 17th (possibly 18th after tonight) and knocked out of both cups by lower league opposition for some of us to be convinced of Lambert's divinity. There's nothing traiterous about that. We don't have a crop of young players like Man U did in 1995 and this isn't football manager, it's not as simple as buying youngsters and then being patient. I'm quite clearly referencing people in this thread, not our support in general. I didn't imply it, I said it, right there. Using words. Turns out I'm referencing you. Who said anything about divinity? Not me. Binary, lacking nuance. Poor show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Crowds are up, support is pretty good right now. What exactly are you looking for? We'll have to do better than 17th (possibly 18th after tonight) and knocked out of both cups by lower league opposition for some of us to be convinced of Lambert's divinity. There's nothing traiterous about that. We don't have a crop of young players like Man U did in 1995 and this isn't football manager, it's not as simple as buying youngsters and then being patient. I'm quite clearly referencing people in this thread, not our support in general. I didn't imply it, I said it, right there. Using words. Turns out I'm referencing you. Who said anything about divinity? Not me. Binary, lacking nuance. Poor show. Firstly, if you're trying to sound intelligent, go and research what the term binary means because you have no clue. Secondly, what you are saying, is you object to Villa fans scrutinising the manager on a Villa forum on a thread clearly marked for discussion of the manager. So what would you prefer, then? No discussion? No scrutiny? Just empty, uniformly positively platitudes? Managers come and go, we should be supporting the club, that entails supporting the manager but not to the point of blind loyalty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 By the way I agree with your initial post anyway. I just don't like what you are insinuating with regards to fans criticising Lambert being somewhat a) traiterous and unintelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm not suggesting that at all, and I know what binary means, thanks. It's the basis of computing. 0 or 1. All or nothing. Unfortunately you yourself have succumbed to this mode of thinking just a few posts up the thread. You don't have to think that Lambert is 'divine' to think we're moving in the right direction. It's been a mixed season, clearly. I don't think many posters or supporters would claim otherwise. But it's possible for us to have underachieved this season and still be moving in the right direction. There's a grey area in between where the truth is normally found. Some of the logic in this thread basically follows because we're battling relegation, Lambert has to be sacked. Mehdi has said as much, I'm sure BJ10 is guilty of it too. But it's too simplistic. One doesn't follow the other. Fair enough if people don't like the guy but there's got to be more of a rational than being a couple of places off where we'd thought we might be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 18, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2013 There are 10 types of people - those who understand binary and those who don't. It's not all doom and gloom for Lambert and, imo, he deserves more than 1 season to get it right given the turnaround in performances and positive football (compared to our last manager). But he is not immune from criticism. His persistence with a 3-5-2 system through consecutive 8-0, 4-0 and 3-0 defeats set us back badly - something we are only just recovering from. After a result like the one at Chelsea, a more astute manager would have set us up more defensively for the next game. After the next loss a good manager would have changed things up. After the 3rd loss, even my wife knew something had to give - but still Lambert persisted with it! Granted, he is learning - but it took too long for that particular lesson to sink in. If we go down this season, the blame will sit squarely on Lambert's shoulders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Love how you moan at people for the way they view things and then make the outrageous claim that everything is down to one game. And that if we hadn't lost to Chelsea we'd be sitting in 12th position and had won the league cup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm sure BJ10 is guilty of it too I wanted him sacked earlier this season and I want him sacked if we go down. If we stay up I think we should keep him mainly so we don't have to rebuild yet again. After his first year I really thought I'd want him to stay because of how impressed I was with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 and may I remind you, they just won the NextGen? If you’ve done well in the NextGen all it means is you’ve been in a fortunate position to win a few games. The Premier League is still a million miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 and may I remind you, they just won the NextGen? If you’ve done well in the NextGen all it means is you’ve been in a fortunate position to win a few games. The Premier League is still a million miles away. I agree with Big John here. It was a great achievement winning the NextGen, and nothing should be taken away from the young lads who did so well, but the PL is a ruthless business that is played at a far more competitive level than the Next Gen series. We have seen so many times in the past that a succesful youth team doesn't always equate to them making it in the top flight. They have a chance, but the youngsters are still developing physically, and some will rise upwards, the majority will fade away into obscurity. I hope for all our sakes we get some gems come through from this bunch, we deserve it for all of the good youth teams we've developed we have never had the luck to have unearthed a top talent just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Love how you moan at people for the way they view things and then make the outrageous claim that everything is down to one game. And that if we hadn't lost to Chelsea we'd be sitting in 12th position and had won the league cup. Well, tht game did a lot of damaged, don't you think? It ruined the player's confidence for a long time and it's very plausible that if the result had been more "normal" we would be sitting safer now and maybe even at least got to the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Its certainly plausible but highly unlikely as we've consistently been around the bottom three for most of the season and i don't see the fall out from one result causing all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Not all, but a lot. We were quite good before that game, having beat liverpool and norwich away. With such a young team and get that kind of beating it'll always hit your confidence. I don't think we'd be 12th now, but I certainly think we'd have more points now. And probably a final. But it's of course not the sole reason for where we are now. Lambert has to take some blame too, no way denying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Love how you moan at people for the way they view things and then make the outrageous claim that everything is down to one game. And that if we hadn't lost to Chelsea we'd be sitting in 12th position and had won the league cup. Well, tht game did a lot of damaged, don't you think? It ruined the player's confidence for a long time and it's very plausible that if the result had been more "normal" we would be sitting safer now and maybe even at least got to the final. I don't believe that result is the difference between what's happened and us sitting comfortable in 12th place and winning a trophy. I think it's a ridiculous suggestion to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Dismissing an 8-0 hammering to a young team carrying a lot of injuries, where the numbers were made up with squad players like Herd and Lichaj, while missing the influence of Gabby and Vlaar and a rejuvenated N'Zogbia? Also consider Delph has only just started to perform. We were struggling for players at that stage. It was a difficult period for many reasons. Injuries to key players being the biggest, imo, but losing 8-0 was never going to help confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Love how you moan at people for the way they view things and then make the outrageous claim that everything is down to one game. And that if we hadn't lost to Chelsea we'd be sitting in 12th position and had won the league cup. Well, tht game did a lot of damaged, don't you think? It ruined the player's confidence for a long time and it's very plausible that if the result had been more "normal" we would be sitting safer now and maybe even at least got to the final. I don't believe that result is the difference between what's happened and us sitting comfortable in 12th place and winning a trophy. I think it's a ridiculous suggestion to be honest. To dismiss it with hyperbole does not make you right! I don't think he should suggest it was the sole reason, but one factor in a messy winter period where we struggled for players, as I posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 BAD: Tactical naivety at times, especially persisting with 5-3-2, and some odd substitutions Hasn't managed to improve our general defending enough, although he has sorted us out from set-pieces. Alienated a good player in Darren Bent GOOD: Good eye for a player. Some absolute gems in there and no expensive flops. Nice style to watch. Upward trajectory of performances. Long-term plan for how to grow the club. Has succeeded in getting the best out of the likes of Delph and N'Zogbia who looked like they might be heading for the scrapheap but are now important players. I'm really looking forward to the next few years - I just hope we stay up. Some of the GOOD things are very very subjective, what nice style? Worst defense a Villa team has had in the Prem and one of the worst attacking teams to boot. I don't find 50 yard passes that cut right through our defence to be anything near being a nice style, but that's just me. These GOODs and BADs sound a bit like : Bad : - small boobs - short legs - ugly face Good : - nice personality - can cook pizza - good with kids Anyway, don't want to get in an argument, but I find your stance a bit too aggressive. Fwiw I think Lambert should stay mostly because I don't think Villa would be able to attract a better manager, whether we stay up or not, and because I hope he's learnt from his mistakes, but there's no denying he's been terrible tactically and apparently isn't very good at inspiring a team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 To dismiss it with hyperbole does not make you right! I don't think he should suggest it was the sole reason So we agree then. So it does make me right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some people in this thread are so myopic that they are unable to comprehend that it's possible to back the manager despite the league position being slightly lower than had been anticipated. For these binary individuals, for whom nuance is a foreign concept, allow me to elaborate - using my own experience - how this might be possible. Love how you moan at people for the way they view things and then make the outrageous claim that everything is down to one game. And that if we hadn't lost to Chelsea we'd be sitting in 12th position and had won the league cup. Well, tht game did a lot of damaged, don't you think? It ruined the player's confidence for a long time and it's very plausible that if the result had been more "normal" we would be sitting safer now and maybe even at least got to the final. I don't believe that result is the difference between what's happened and us sitting comfortable in 12th place and winning a trophy. I think it's a ridiculous suggestion to be honest. Well, take away the exact position of 12th and maybe the final and since you're someone who thinks that if an authority agrees with you you are proven right, then I know someone who agrees with me and the others who agrees with me that this affected us very much. Someone who'd you'd probably say has proven you right if he agreed with you. So I think it's fair to say that you're absolutely wrong to call the suggestion ridiculous, if nothing else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 To dismiss it with hyperbole does not make you right! I don't think he should suggest it was the sole reason So we agree then. So it does make me right. Methinks somebody likes to argue more than they like to think. Whatever comes naturally, eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Good : - can cook pizza Sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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