Con Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 There is no choice between Entertainment vs Survival. The most successful teams in the PL are entertaining. If we want to be a successful team, we need to entertain. Playing football is the only way to go forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Now who is putting words in another person's mouth. You're basically saying you're a fair weather fan which is fair enough. I went to fewer games last season but I was never going to give up on the club or "football completely". What? 1) Where am I putting words into people's mouths? I was asking questions as a retort to Morpheus's points. 2) I am not **** fairweather fan. Don't put words in my mouth. I watched every game last year regardless of whether I enjoyed it or not. As I stated previously, I watched out of habit. Regardless of whether I was put off, I'd still watch. But I'd love to enjoy it. Which I have massively this year. Edited April 15, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 None of the teams in the top half of the PL play hoofball, so I don't know what the argument is. Unentertaining football is a recipe for relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Also, I have a ST and am at uni 140 miles away. Please don't question my support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) "Would you rather have another season of McLeish, 0-0's everywhere and 6 defenders on the pitch, staying up by 1 point or have the season we've had with its huge highs and lows and go down?" That I would describe as putting words in another person's mouth. No one has said, at least on the last few pages, that they enjoyed the football under McLeish so there's no reason to imply that they have. On the issue of fandom, I don't know what you expect people to think when you post things like this. "football is about entertainment."...."Seriously, last year I was so close to giving up on caring about football. So staying up didn't really matter." Edited April 15, 2013 by KennyPowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 There is no choice between Entertainment vs Survival. The most successful teams in the PL are entertaining. If we want to be a successful team, we need to entertain. Playing football is the only way to go forward. There's clearly a slight trade-off. Allardyce and Pulis have repeatedly proven they can build an uninspiring team that can stay up. The problem with it is the fans eventually turn on the manager anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) They were sincere questions because I was interested in his response. That's how a debate works. Caring about football =/= I won't still watch it. By the end of last year I didn't really care but I still watched every single name. Now I look forward to going to see games again. Football is about entertainment. Not just about entertainment, but a large portion of it is. Staying up didn't matter because I thought we'd have another season of McLeish. Regardless of what division we were in, it would be the same shite. But I'd still support the Villa. There is no choice between Entertainment vs Survival. The most successful teams in the PL are entertaining. If we want to be a successful team, we need to entertain. Playing football is the only way to go forward. There's clearly a slight trade-off. Allardyce and Pulis have repeatedly proven they can build an uninspiring team that can stay up. The problem with it is the fans eventually turn on the manager anyway. And now Pulis has been found out and his Stoke team are perilously close to going down. I'd just like to say, this all kicked off because I said I have preferred this season over last, even if we go down. That's not that an outlandish a view. Edited April 15, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Saying that you were close to giving up on the club and football completely because of a dull season is quite an extreme view to be fair. If you're being honest it surprises me but fair enough. I suspect you were exaggerating to illustrate your dislike of McLeish but if you were being honest then yes I would suggest you are in a small minority so it is somewhat "outlandish". I think a few people have echoed my view that Lamber should have been a bit more pragmatic this season. I think we should have been playing 3 central midfielders for most of the season because a) we're weak in centre midfield and the defence needs the protection. It annoys me that Lambert has gone back to 4-2-3-1 again, I just don't think he's much of a tactician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Saying that you were close to giving up on the club and football completely because of a dull season is quite an extreme view to be fair. If you're being honest it surprises me but fair enough. I suspect you were exaggerating to illustrate your dislike of McLeish but if you were being honest then yes I would suggest you are in a small minority so it is somewhat "outlandish". I think a few people have echoed my view that Lamber should have been a bit more pragmatic this season. I think we should have been playing 3 central midfielders for most of the season because a) we're weak in centre midfield and the defence needs the protection. It annoys me that Lambert has gone back to 4-2-3-1 again, I just don't think he's much of a tactician. I exaggerated for the sake of my argument. I'd never give up on the club, in a million years (and I'm sorry it came across like that) but I could give up enjoying football. You must be able to see my point with regards to entertainment though. I'm not saying it's the only factor, because obviously it's not. However, if we had to watch season after season of dull football culminating in us staying up by 1 point, a bit of excitement might be worth it. Obviously we only had the one season of McLeish so this is purely hypothetical. This season has been more entertaining for both the good and the bad. If we go down, obviously it'll be a huge disappointment, but I can still look back on this season and pick out positives. Very different to the previous year where the only positive was that we stayed up. EDIT: With regards to Lambert (this is what the thread is about I guess), I think he's learning. Bradford was horrendous, and showed him up massively, but he's shown enough nous in other games to show me he has what he takes. He can also spot a player. Edited April 15, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 The football has been better this season, no doubt. There are some positive vibes around the club because we are playing a young side and this gives the impression that we are building for the future although in a cynical way, it illustrates that the Chairman has given up on competing with the big spending clubs. If we go down this year, then it hasn't been worth the pain of blooding youngsters and persisting with them, simple as that. I posted extensively earlier in the thread about Lambert. To summarise, I think he's a poor tactician. I think he relies on a shared team spirit, a shared philosophy if you will. I think all this business of playing young players is not just because of financial constraints. I think he wants to play young players, I think he wants this because they are easier to control, more willing to buy into what he is preaching. Other than the players we have unceremoniously booted out I look at his treatment of Ireland and Bent. They are older players, have played under multiple managers and have money in the bank. They are far less likely to buy what he is preaching, in terms of a shared spirit/philosophy than young players, especially young players that he has himself brought to the club. That's my thinking on Lambert. I'd like to see him be a bit more pragmatic but it will probably come with time. I wouldn't say I dislike him but I am very on the fence right now. I haven't fully bought into what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) I disagree that the lack of money is what led Lambert to his philosophy. I think it was his decision. This is evidenced by the potential buy of Dempsey. I think we will spend this summer because the crux of the issue, the wage bill, is nearly solved. We can afford to double Benteke's wages. I never said it would be worth the pain to blood the youngsters, but compared to last year (which is the only comparison this debate was about), the entertainment value would have made up for it. However I don't believe we will go down, which means I can hold this view more freely. If it gets down to it and we're in real danger (in the relegation zone before the Wigan game) then my opinion would probably change. I think he's tactically naive. He can and will improve. Edited April 15, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 We have. We've just drawn way more and lost less. Yet we still are in a worse position. Would you rather be entertained and be relegated or bored and still in the Premiership with the extra revenue from TV? Entertained and relegated. Football is entertainment. Not sitting on your hands and drawing 0-0 every week. I was watching out of habit last year. Not because I enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 IN MY OPINION, this season will stand as more entertaining whatever happens. This is down to a combination of my personal experiences and the season as a whole. Last season was utterly dreadful. It nearly put many people off the Villa. I doubt we'd have sold half the ST's we sold if McLeish was still here. Hell, I don't want relegation at all. I'll be absolutely gutted if we do go down. Yet we still are in a worse position. Would you rather be entertained and be relegated or bored and still in the Premiership with the extra revenue from TV? Don't go round in circles with this argument again. We can all see that we're building for the immediate future this season which is good. Lambert should have realised sooner in the season that the defence was very poor by Premier League standards though and played more defensive/offered more protection from the midfield than he has. No one going in circles on this one. A poster has just implied that playing entertaining football is more important than staying in the Premiership. Never heard that from any fan before and its interesting to hear why the poster thinks that way. Would you rather have another season of McLeish, 0-0's everywhere and 6 defenders on the pitch, staying up by 1 point or have the season we've had with its huge highs and lows and go down? What's the point of playing in the premiership if we're not going to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 None of the teams in the top half of the PL play hoofball, so I don't know what the argument is. Unentertaining football is a recipe for relegation. One of the biggest excuses posters use for our manager is that we are playing better football than last year yet where are we and where have we been for most of the season in the Premiership. Its absolute rubbish to suggest playing entertaining football will automatically gain success. There are teams in the Premiership who play both entertaining and more functional football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Its absolute rubbish to suggest playing entertaining football will automatically gain success. There are teams in the Premiership who play both entertaining and more functional football. To be succesfull, you have to able to comfortably switch from either extreme. Well, that was the case when literaly buying trophie's was not the vogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 For me there has to be a balance between entertainment and results. And TBH i don't think entertainment or results have been good enough this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Fans of Barcelona (I know quite a few) sometimes claim they rather play beautiful football than win ugly. This usually comes after they've been tactically outsmartet (by Mourinho). Fair enough you wan't to be entertained, but give it 2 seasons without a title and i promise the Barca fans will be screaming for the managers head, no matter how pretty and entertaining the football is. Few things are more entertaining than watching your team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Football is about playing matches and trying to win. Being "entertaining" and losing loads of matches/dropping needless points is a failure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Football is about playing matches and trying to win. Being "entertaining" and losing loads of matches/dropping needless points is a failure. We've already won more games this year than last (considering saying this year has been more entertaining was my initial point). We didn't try and win in a lot our draws last year. We wouldn't have even stayed up last year if not for a freak result at Chelsea. We've been more entertaining this year and won more games so your point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Also, our defending this season has been anything but entertaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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