Manager Paul Lambert

[Genie]

Looking at it like that - we can do it.  However we need to wake ourselves up from this poor form.  Just need one result to go for us.

 

If you think about it we should have beat baggies with a 2-0 lead, we should have beat Swansea after being 2-1 into injury time, we did beat Bradford (but not by enough) so there is something to be optimistic in the not so distant past. WE CAN DO IT!

[VILLAMARV]

Can all the last 3 managers be out of their depth, the common denominator is the players and funnily enough these are what the club are desperately trying to get rid of.

I will quite willingly give PL another year, but if as you say we are shit still by next christmas then I would help pay for his taxi, I just dont believe this will happen though.

Normally when a new manager comes in players put some effort into trying to impress him, I have not seen any evidence of this at VP, 

Something is very wrong at this club,

 

I dont think it is the owner as he has tried to back us in the past and has shown trust in the managers (mistakenly) It cant all be the managers, the problem I think is the players, this is why I believe they are clearing them out and bringing younger players in who do not see us as an easy earner.

Maybe RL has taken advice, maybe this is all part of a plan, perhaps we will reduce the club to the bare bones, removing every bit of the dross, then we may see a hell of alot of investment, perhaps this is the plan and why PL joined us. It is the only reason I can think of why he came here and left a cushy number at Norwich and probably why he is getting backed verbally by RL.

 

I just couldnt agree more with the start of this. I think McMuppet was well out of his depth to be honest but there's no doubt in my mind that the somewhere in our group of players there is something very rotten indeed. The fact that some players are paid alot adds fuel to the fire of criticism but ultimately it is about performance and application. The idea of buying "young, hungry players" might say alot about the finances at our club but also says alot about the application and desire of some of the old heads IMO.

 

Think back to Collymore for instance - undoubtedly talented, showed great application at forest and early Liverpool career and was a REAL player. Did he lack desire for us? well as a fan the obvious answer is no, but by his own admission his head was never really right when he came here. We had a great player at the wrong time in his life. 

Brett Holman is a great example to back up the point of trying for a new manager. If our "more talented players" (the ones who can actually pass!) could show the same determination on the pitch as him I doubt we'd be in the bottom 3

 

Tough to defend Lerner though no matter how much money he's spent. Many feel after disposing of Steve Stride and never replacing him he deserves everything he gets. I do feel that we are only part way through the costcutting process. 

 

I suspect Lambert is quite sensible and thought he could go down / stay up with villa or norwich this year. I dont think its a bad decision on his part to join a club with a bigger stadium, fan base, and if you can clear the books then budget. 

[VILLAMARV]

To be fair to Lambert, myself and a lot more said at the start of the season, the main things needed were to clear out the back four of Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock, change the style of football and survive, and 17th place would be acceptable. He hasn't relegated us yet, even though I do think we will go down. He has shifted two of those four, with Hutton out on loan and Dunne's contract up in June, we are free of those players. I think people have very short memories, it wasn't that long ago we were playing with 8 defenders in a game, or 3 right backs. I hope to god he can turn it around. I think he should have a sit down with the older lads, the Bents, Irelands etc, and say look we are all in this now till at least May, I'd imagine nobody wins if they don't perform. Ireland's stock must be at an all time low, Bent's is falling fast, I've no doubt he will not be here come the end of August, but you get the feeling that he has one last big move in him before he becomes passed around the lower end clubs of the Premiership a la Carew going to Stoke & West Ham, surely if he bangs in a few goals he can demand better wages than sitting on the bench. Lambert may have cast a few out but he's got to bring the lads in now from the cold and get them fighting.

 

This is a point fast forgotten here I think. well said. I agree Bent and Ireland COULD be 2 very important players over the next few weeks we all know the ability is there. But are they really interested? Lambert might have alot to do with that. Whoever said he mismanaged the captaincy issue may have a point regarding Bent's apllication since being dropped.Personally I'd rather a manager who doesn't just play the big names come hell or high water. If lambert was this we would have been watching Gabby - Bent upfront all season instead of Benteke - weimann and I know which I prefer to watch. 

Edited February 1, 2013 by VILLAMARV

[Jarpie]

I just couldnt agree more with the start of this. I think McMuppet was well out of his depth to be honest but there's no doubt in my mind that the somewhere in our group of players there is something very rotten indeed. The fact that some players are paid alot adds fuel to the fire of criticism but ultimately it is about performance and application. The idea of buying "young, hungry players" might say alot about the finances at our club but also says alot about the application and desire of some of the old heads IMO.

 

Think back to Collymore for instance - undoubtedly talented, showed great application at forest and early Liverpool career and was a REAL player. Did he lack desire for us? well as a fan the obvious answer is no, but by his own admission his head was never really right when he came here. We had a great player at the wrong time in his life. 

Brett Holman is a great example to back up the point of trying for a new manager. If our "more talented players" (the ones who can actually pass!) could show the same determination on the pitch as him I doubt we'd be in the bottom 3

 

Tough to defend Lerner though no matter how much money he's spent. Many feel after disposing of Steve Stride and never replacing him he deserves everything he gets. I do feel that we are only part way through the costcutting process. 

 

I suspect Lambert is quite sensible and thought he could go down / stay up with villa or norwich this year. I dont think its a bad decision on his part to join a club with a bigger stadium, fan base, and if you can clear the books then budget. 

 

To be fair for Collymore, he isn't in the same bracket as some of our high earners, as far as I know he suffered from clinical depression all through of his Villa career so it's very much understandable why his head wasn't "really right". With the players we have now it doesn't seem to be like that.

 

Ireland for me is conumdrum, he looks really up for it in couple games and puts real effort (like in the game against Bradford) and then in the next one he looks like he doesn't care at all and looks lazy as hell.

 

As I wrote earlier, Lambert seems to have wrong with Bent from the start, maybe just clash of personalities or Lambert isn't good handling "the big players", but then when I watched Goals on Sunday when Given was quest, he said that Lambert had spoken to the goalkeepers about selections etc. several times all through out the season, so why wouldn't he talk to Bent about taking away the captainship from him?

[LondonLax]

This is a point fast forgotten here I think. well said. I agree Bent and Ireland COULD be 2 very important players over the next few weeks we all know the ability is there. But are they really interested? Lambert might have alot to do with that. Whoever said he mismanaged the captaincy issue may have a point regarding Bent's apllication since being dropped.Ppersonally I'd rather a manager who doesn't just play the big names come hell or high water. If lambert was this we would have been watching Gabby - Bent upfront all season instead of Benteke - weimann and I know which I prefer to watch. 

I would just prefer us to win a few matches. If that means Bent and Gabby up front then so be it.

[PussEKatt]

Well, 14 games to get 18 points, at the very least.

 

Good luck.

Don't forget that out of that 14 games 6 of them are against, the 2 Manchester clubs Chelski,Arsenal,Liverpool and Spurs.

[Raymond]

I saw this mentioned a few pages back, but I can't be asked to go find it again to quote.

I agree blaming the manager, who does obviously have faults, is an interesting idea from an intellectual perspective.

If in life you were in a situation where a + b + c always led to failure, and you had already several times changed variable a (manager), then it would seem to suggest b or c might be the actual problem.

I personally think b (players) are the problem, but only because c (owner) refuses to spend any money. Either way, we can change managers 1,000 more times, but it will not affect anything until the second part of the equation improves.

[AvfcTheObsession]

 

Don't forget that out of that 14 games 6 of them are against, the 2 Manchester clubs Chelski,Arsenal,Liverpool and Spurs.

 

You've also not mentioned Everton in that list who are better than Liverpool.

Half of our games are very tough.

The other half are tough.

[PussEKatt]

I think the players are ok, its just that they are all young and inexperianced and Lambert refuses to play any experienced players to help the young ones out.Why can't he play Warnock or Hutton or Dunn or Bent on a more regular basis ? 

I see a lot of commitnent and a 110 % effort from the team but what I don't see is any ledership or direction from any of the oplder hands ( that we dont play ) 

[Jarpie]

I think the players are ok, its just that they are all young and inexperianced and Lambert refuses to play any experienced players to help the young ones out.Why can't he play Warnock or Hutton or Dunn or Bent on a more regular basis ? 

I see a lot of commitnent and a 110 % effort from the team but what I don't see is any ledership or direction from any of the oplder hands ( that we dont play ) 

 

Dunne has been injured and so has Bent who haven't had chance to get a good run of games due small injuries. Warnock and Hutton must've been very disruptive force in the dressing room or Lambert being an ass, he could've given at least couple games for Hutton to rest Lowton who would need it desperately.

[Cliffy Biro]

We've already played spur twice.

[AvfcTheObsession]

I think the players are ok, its just that they are all young and inexperianced and Lambert refuses to play any experienced players to help the young ones out.Why can't he play Warnock or Hutton or Dunn or Bent on a more regular basis ? 

I see a lot of commitnent and a 110 % effort from the team but what I don't see is any ledership or direction from any of the oplder hands ( that we dont play ) 

Well two of those players are no longer at the club.

One has been injured all season.

Bent has looked ineffective during recent appearances, doesn't fit the system/players we've got anymore.

[VILLAMARV]

To be fair for Collymore, he isn't in the same bracket as some of our high earners, as far as I know he suffered from clinical depression all through of his Villa career so it's very much understandable why his head wasn't "really right". With the players we have now it doesn't seem to be like that.

 

Ireland for me is conumdrum, he looks really up for it in couple games and puts real effort (like in the game against Bradford) and then in the next one he looks like he doesn't care at all and looks lazy as hell.

 

As I wrote earlier, Lambert seems to have wrong with Bent from the start, maybe just clash of personalities or Lambert isn't good handling "the big players", but then when I watched Goals on Sunday when Given was quest, he said that Lambert had spoken to the goalkeepers about selections etc. several times all through out the season, so why wouldn't he talk to Bent about taking away the captainship from him?

 

Wasn't attacking Collymore - just using it as an example that ability as a player and the way you're managed by individual managers aren't the only factors that can affect what happens on the pitch. Some people dont want to accept that Lambert isnt the SOLE reason the players aren't performing.

 

Ireland is indeed a conundrum. If conundrum means you only get a performance out of him after his mrs posts pictures of him smoking pipes on the internet.

 

I think the Bent thing is going to go down in history with half our fans as dropping an underperforming player and the other half as the thing that cost us / nearly cost us premiership staus. delete as applicable come May.

[LondonLax]

I saw this mentioned a few pages back, but I can't be asked to go find it again to quote.

I agree blaming the manager, who does obviously have faults, is an interesting idea from an intellectual perspective.

If in life you were in a situation where a + b + c always led to failure, and you had already several times changed variable a (manager), then it would seem to suggest b or c might be the actual problem.

I personally think b (players) are the problem, but only because c (owner) refuses to spend any money. Either way, we can change managers 1,000 more times, but it will not affect anything until the second part of the equation improves.

Well you can't put it into such a simple formula because there are too many variables.

How about this line of thought though:

Houllier was not a total disaster. He took over a demoralised squad who had just had their manager walk out on them, he had no preseason to get his ideas over, he had no transfer window to make any changes. The team wobbled at first but recovered to finish top half. Quite a decent achievement.

McLeish is a defensive manager with a mediocre record. We started the season reasonably but playing dour football. We then had injuries to key players (Petrov, Bent and Dunne) and our form fell away to finish bottom half. A poor finish but not unexpected and not disastrous.

Lambert comes in, decides on a course of action that would take £50m to implement when he only has a transfer budget of £25m. His tenure then goes from one disaster to the next leading up to our current position in 19th, 4 points from bottom, out of both cups to lower league opposition, with the worst defence and lowest scorers in the league and without a win since mid December.

Houllier's term was not bad given the circumstances. McLeish's was poor but expected. The biggest disappointment by far has been the performance of Lambert.

[foreveryoung]

Coincidence I reported on here Bent was trying to talk to Lambert tactically with Ireland backing him up and they had a huge fall out. Funny its Ireland and Bent with the quality issues!

[TrentVilla]

Well you can't put it into such a simple formula because there are too many variables.

How about this line of thought though:

Houllier was not a total disaster. He took over a demoralised squad who had just had their manager walk out on them, he had no preseason to get his ideas over, he had no transfer window to make any changes. The team wobbled at first but recovered to finish top half. Quite a decent achievement.

McLeish is a defensive manager with a mediocre record. We started the season reasonably but playing dour football. We then had injuries to key players (Petrov, Bent and Dunne) and our form fell away to finish bottom half. A poor finish but not unexpected and not disastrous.

Lambert comes in, decides on a course of action that would take £50m to implement when he only has a transfer budget of £25m. His tenure then goes from one disaster to the next leading up to our current position in 19th, 4 points from bottom, out of both cups to lower league opposition, with the worst defence and lowest scorers in the league and without a win since mid December.

Houllier's term was not bad given the circumstances. McLeish's was poor but expected. The biggest disappointment by far has been the performance of Lambert.

 

How about it? I'd describe it as nonsense.

[VILLAMARV]

I would just prefer us to win a few matches. If that means Bent and Gabby up front then so be it.

 

Totally agree with the sentiment, just feel more confident when watching us this season that we are gonna score when Gabby, Weimann and Benteke are on the pitch and Bent is on the bench. If we go to a 442 at all he may yet well score the goals that keep us up though.

 

I saw this mentioned a few pages back, but I can't be asked to go find it again to quote.

I agree blaming the manager, who does obviously have faults, is an interesting idea from an intellectual perspective.

If in life you were in a situation where a + b + c always led to failure, and you had already several times changed variable a (manager), then it would seem to suggest b or c might be the actual problem.

I personally think b (players) are the problem, but only because c (owner) refuses to spend any money. Either way, we can change managers 1,000 more times, but it will not affect anything until the second part of the equation improves.

 

totally!! 

[AvfcTheObsession]

Well you can't put it into such a simple formula because there are too many variables.

How about this line of thought though:

Houllier was not a total disaster. He took over a demoralised squad who had just had their manager walk out on them, he had no preseason to get his ideas over, he had no transfer window to make any changes. The team wobbled at first but recovered to finish top half. Quite a decent achievement.

McLeish is a defensive manager with a mediocre record. We started the season reasonably but playing dour football. We then had injuries to key players (Petrov, Bent and Dunne) and our form fell away to finish bottom half. A poor finish but not unexpected and not disastrous.

Lambert comes in, decides on a course of action that would take £50m to implement when he only has a transfer budget of £25m. His tenure then goes from one disaster to the next leading up to our current position in 19th, 4 points from bottom, out of both cups to lower league opposition, with the worst defence and lowest scorers in the league and without a win since mid December.

Houllier's term was not bad given the circumstances. McLeish's was poor but expected. The biggest disappointment by far has been the performance of Lambert.

Simply pointing out that we finished top half under Houllier does not tell the full story though.

Some of the performances were as bad as anything under the much maligned Alex McLeish, the defeats at Liverpool and Man City under Houllier spring to mind, as well as Sunderland at home.

Houllier needed big money to save us in January, he should have been doing far better with a team containing the likes of Ashley Young and Stewart Downing.

We were in the bottom 3 for much of the season, and got 2 wins in the last 2 teams when Houllier wasn't even managing the team to propell us up the league, so infact it was actually McAllister that got us to a decent league position.

[Jarpie]

Wasn't attacking Collymore - just using it as an example that ability as a player and the way you're managed by individual managers aren't the only factors that can affect what happens on the pitch. Some people dont want to accept that Lambert isnt the SOLE reason the players aren't performing.

 

Ireland is indeed a conundrum. If conundrum means you only get a performance out of him after his mrs posts pictures of him smoking pipes on the internet.

 

I think the Bent thing is going to go down in history with half our fans as dropping an underperforming player and the other half as the thing that cost us / nearly cost us premiership staus. delete as applicable come May.

 

Ah, yeah, our club must be complete mess behind the scenes, too bad we probably don't know what has gone behind the scenes of our club in the last 2,5 years.

[LondonLax]

It was always going to take Houllier time to get things going with the circumstances he took over. He did turn things around and we had a good finish. We should have kept him on, we'd be in a much better position now if we had.

Edited February 1, 2013 by LondonLax