Manager Paul Lambert

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

However what I would ask did we really need to purchase Kozak, Bowery, Helenius, or Tonev, when we already had Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Bent, Fonz, and Albrighton at the club? Are any of the former better than the latter?

 

You've set up a false argument here - It's not an either/or is it!  When filling the front three or four positions you obviously need a mix first team regulars and back-up, at least two for each position.  In terms of pecking order when players are playing to form, I would imagine it's something like Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Kozak, Tonev, Albrighton, Bowery, Helenius.   Bent and Fonz are surplus to requirements, in that their style of play does not fit what is needed

 

Bennett has also been a poor signing and with the exception of Benteke and Vlaar have the rest of Lambert's signings really shone? Not really since we've already had our flirtation with relegation under Lambert's stewardship and are by no means safe from another this season especially how we are playing at the moment.

 

Bennett had a difficult first season in a team fighting for its life. I think he may yet come good, we'll see. Did I expect PL's signings to "shine"? I suppose it depends on how you classify that, I expected them to come in and do a job for us - Westwood, Bacuna, Lowton, Luna have all won MOTM votes from the fans so it appears that they shone that day. Can you expect players on less than £10k a week to consistently 'shine' in a league where the average players are earning 5 times that? I wouldn't have thought so!

 

You also can't say with any degree of certainty that we would have been relegated using members of the bomb squad as probably the worst manager we've ever had failed to relegate us using those players.

 

Just my opinion - what I do know is that during the second half of the season under McL they were collecting less than .8 of a point per game (equivalent to 30 points for the season) - I saw nothing to suggest that they had it in them to turn that around. Interesting to see that not one of them has gone on to any success elsewhere, with many struggling to win a place in very poor sides. Fortunately Lambert had the balls to clear the decks and bring in a completely fresh squad utilising minimal resources.

 

Moreover,  just because Lambert bought 16 young players that doesn't mean that those players were the best we could have purchased in the 1m-2m range which seems to be the overriding excuse on here for our lack of quality in the squad.

 

It's not just the low fees that were a limitation but also the low wages we could afford to pay. You seem to be mixing up excuses with reasons - usually when you spend more money, you get better quality

 

The players signed were Lambert's choices but who is to say that another manager wouldn't have made better choices with the same restrictions or indeed allocated the budget better by keeping and playing a system that would have better suited the players already here? 

 

Heskey? Warnock? Hutton? Ireland? Collins? Dunne? Holman? That's £350k a week right there! I can't think of a system which would have got anything out of the "players already here" - maybe play 20 of them all together.  I think the general consensus is that keeping them was never an option anyway (good!)

 

Could another manager have found a better 16 players - maybe, but we will never know.  Personally, I think we have got tremendous value for money with a mix of mainly U21 and Full Internationals and a few prospects thrown in. 

 

 

But haven't you just asked me who i would have kept and with respect there would have been enough diversity between the players I've mentioned which would have meant that transfer fees could have been spent elsewhere. You also state that Bent and Fonz are no longer required due to not fitting in with our present style of play yet what type of player is Kozak and hasn't Lambert played two upfront so no false argument other than one you just can't answer.

 

Bennett was poor last season and still can't get into the team this season.

 

The players you mention haven't shone because we were in a relegation dogfight last season and our football this season has been dire.

 

I see you are again selecting a stat from one part of a season to substantiate your point. Here's another stat which can't be argued with. Mcleish secured our Premiership status with one game to go using the players Lambert has ostracised yet Lambert has repeated that feat after bringing his own players in.

 

You are substantiating your value for money comment through quantity alone as our results since Lambert's arrival have generally been poor.  

Edited December 14, 2013 by Morpheus

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

 

 

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

Doesn't matter if he discovered him or not, the fact is if it wasn't for Lambert, we would have lost Guzan for free to most likely a team in the MLS.

Lambert has turned Guzan from a written off 2nd keeper who was allowed to leave the club into our 1st keeper and an extremely valuable asset who we could probably fetch a good £10m at least for if sold.

I'm only disagreeing with you on the point was he a Lambert signing in the way that typifies his other signings at the club and no he wasn't.

 

Lambert was also probably informed by the coaching staff at Villa Park of Guzan's abilities and his availability and brought him back due to the monitory restrictions at the club.

All of the later is made up by you. If you read or watch any interviews with Lambert about guzan he actually knew all about him and couldn't understand why the club had axed him, so yes he had scouted him. I also find it strange that you think a manager who has scouted all of his signings, would go against the grain and sign a keeper recommended by the same staff that let him go??

It's nit picking to take even the slightest bit of praise from Lambert.

I can't imagine a phone call from Lambert to guzan along the lines of...hey the staff who have just let you go actually think you're pretty decent, I personally don't know anything about you but do you fancy coming back as we're skint.

 

Bit of a contradiction there between the bolded text and no i'm not consciously making anything up as the scenario i've put forward is just my opinion.

[villan_007]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

Doesn't matter if he discovered him or not, the fact is if it wasn't for Lambert, we would have lost Guzan for free to most likely a team in the MLS.

Lambert has turned Guzan from a written off 2nd keeper who was allowed to leave the club into our 1st keeper and an extremely valuable asset who we could probably fetch a good £10m at least for if sold.

I'm only disagreeing with you on the point was he a Lambert signing in the way that typifies his other signings at the club and no he wasn't.

 

Lambert was also probably informed by the coaching staff at Villa Park of Guzan's abilities and his availability and brought him back due to the monitory restrictions at the club.

All of the later is made up by you. If you read or watch any interviews with Lambert about guzan he actually knew all about him and couldn't understand why the club had axed him, so yes he had scouted him. I also find it strange that you think a manager who has scouted all of his signings, would go against the grain and sign a keeper recommended by the same staff that let him go??It's nit picking to take even the slightest bit of praise from Lambert.

I can't imagine a phone call from Lambert to guzan along the lines of...hey the staff who have just let you go actually think you're pretty decent, I personally don't know anything about you but do you fancy coming back as we're skint.

Bit of a contradiction there between the bolded text and no i'm not consciously making anything up as the scenario i've put forward is just my opinion.

And it's an opinion that is wrong, it's there for all to read that Lambert had watched guzan before joining us, which means he had scouted him.

[Morpheus]

Still, nice that you haven't commented on the contradiction i've just highlighted for you and very kind of you to point out that i'm the one who is wrong.   

[villan_007]

Still, nice that you haven't commented on the contradiction i've just highlighted for you and very kind of you to point out that i'm the one who is wrong.

Just typical of you really, you're wrong about the original point about Lambert not scouting Guzan, which you're trying to dodge and instead bold out a section of my post to change the subject.

I'll show you how it's done....I completely missed the part of you saying you do give Lambert credit so I was wrong there. Now you give it a go...or bold out some other part and change the point again.

[Butterfingers]

KEA has (imo) massively improved this season-Like a few others including Vlaar. They're about the same age so if Vlaars price has increased then so has KEA's

 

Kozak has done a job for us. When compared to other strikers in the bottom half of the table, he's there or thereabouts with the scope to improve. I like him

 

Bacuna is a strange one. Out of all the signings, he was the least exciting for a lot of us. I watched him against Liverpool & thought he really struggled but his early games at right back were a revelation. I think the way we line up with the central 3 in midfield does not suit Bacuna. Right back is the position he has more chance of success at.

[VillanousOne]

Watching match of the day you sometimes think 'jeez we really hate creative central midfielders'

 

you look at Steven Davies doing well at Southampton, Ireland doing a good job for Stoke.

Whittingham does pretty well for Cardiff.

 

even Bannan gets a game most of the time all be it for Palace.

 

I know the above means little and is not just about who Lambert has let go,

But I also find it so ridiculous that even if he hadn't have been injured - Lambert would have bombed out Nzogbia.

I rate Delph highly but he doesn't pull the strings in midfield, the rest are nearly men and cloggers.
 

Carruthers is 20 so I hope he and Grealish are brought back and reassessed by the coaching staff.

All we get linked to is more forwards, it's like that anti-McCleish - instead of a team of 9 defenders - Lambert plans to have a team of 9 strikers.

[Morpheus]

 

Still, nice that you haven't commented on the contradiction i've just highlighted for you and very kind of you to point out that i'm the one who is wrong.

Just typical of you really, you're wrong about the original point about Lambert not scouting Guzan, which you're trying to dodge and instead bold out a section of my post to change the subject.

I'll show you how it's done....I completely missed the part of you saying you do give Lambert credit so I was wrong there. Now you give it a go...or bold out some other part and change the point again.

 

He didn't scout him though with the intention of signing him he had just seen him play before which are two completely different things.

[Mantis]

Watching match of the day you sometimes think 'jeez we really hate creative central midfielders'

 

you look at Steven Davies doing well at Southampton, Ireland doing a good job for Stoke.

Whittingham does pretty well for Cardiff.

 

even Bannan gets a game most of the time all be it for Palace.

 

I know the above means little and is not just about who Lambert has let go,

But I also find it so ridiculous that even if he hadn't have been injured - Lambert would have bombed out Nzogbia.

I rate Delph highly but he doesn't pull the strings in midfield, the rest are nearly men and cloggers.

 

Carruthers is 20 so I hope he and Grealish are brought back and reassessed by the coaching staff.

All we get linked to is more forwards, it's like that anti-McCleish - instead of a team of 9 defenders - Lambert plans to have a team of 9 strikers.

Bannan and Ireland were shit for us and I think it's unfair to describe most of the team as "cloggers". Westwood certainly isn't.

[Kiwivillan]

 

I rate Delph highly but he doesn't pull the strings in midfield, the rest are nearly men and cloggers.

 

 

 

Another absurd attack on KEA who has scored as many goals as Gabby and Weimann combined this season. Disgusting. Who are the players that really need to have a look at themselves and ask if they are earning their wages this season?

[Keyblade]

 

 

Still, nice that you haven't commented on the contradiction i've just highlighted for you and very kind of you to point out that i'm the one who is wrong.

Just typical of you really, you're wrong about the original point about Lambert not scouting Guzan, which you're trying to dodge and instead bold out a section of my post to change the subject.

I'll show you how it's done....I completely missed the part of you saying you do give Lambert credit so I was wrong there. Now you give it a go...or bold out some other part and change the point again.

 

He didn't scout him though with the intention of signing him he had just seen him play before which are two completely different things.

 

 

Earlier you said he only signed him on recommendation of the club (the same club that released him no less), and now it's "he just saw him play before, he didn't actually scout him". So how thick should the dossier on a player be before we can give the manager credit for a signing? I can't even see the goalposts anymore you've moved them so far.

[Villarocker]

Lambo, having just seen who's missing for Utd today, please have a go at them and DON'T be defensive. They can only play one way and that's to attack. We can counter on them all day long and with their weak midfield, and without Vidic & Evra there should be plenty of chances fall our way if we're positive enough to go for it.

[mikeyp102]

Lambo, having just seen who's missing for Utd today, please have a go at them and DON'T be defensive. They can only play one way and that's to attack. We can counter on them all day long and with their weak midfield, and without Vidic & Evra there should be plenty of chances fall our way if we're positive enough to go for it.

Was about to say hope we go for it. Today will show lamberts metal, a utd side low on confidence shouldn't be feared

[sonic_bouma]

Lambo, having just seen who's missing for Utd today, please have a go at them and DON'T be defensive. They can only play one way and that's to attack. We can counter on them all day long and with their weak midfield, and without Vidic & Evra there should be plenty of chances fall our way if we're positive enough to go for it.

Was about to say hope we go for it. Today will show lamberts metal, a utd side low on confidence shouldn't be feared

I agree

Sadly though I think our leaky defence last year has turned our manager from being made of 80% titanium to 90% tin

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

Still, nice that you haven't commented on the contradiction i've just highlighted for you and very kind of you to point out that i'm the one who is wrong.

Just typical of you really, you're wrong about the original point about Lambert not scouting Guzan, which you're trying to dodge and instead bold out a section of my post to change the subject.

I'll show you how it's done....I completely missed the part of you saying you do give Lambert credit so I was wrong there. Now you give it a go...or bold out some other part and change the point again.

 

He didn't scout him though with the intention of signing him he had just seen him play before which are two completely different things.

 

 

Earlier you said he only signed him on recommendation of the club (the same club that released him no less), and now it's "he just saw him play before, he didn't actually scout him". So how thick should the dossier on a player be before we can give the manager credit for a signing? I can't even see the goalposts anymore you've moved them so far.

 

And I also mentioned that he hadn't scouted him which is totally relevant to my previous post. So I would suggest that if you are going to have a dig  base it on what I have actually written rather than you trying to move goalposts to suit.

[Villarocker]

Team is set up to try and go at them. 4 at back. And potentially three up top! Now don't complain if it goes wrong that we were too open!!!

No complaints from me if we get beat by having a go at them. If they were full strength I would understand being a bit cautious against them, but, with so many of their players missing we should definitely show no fear. If we get beat then fair enough, but at least have a go.

[VillaCas]

 

But haven't you just asked me who I would have kept with respect there would have been enough diversity between the players I've mentioned which would have meant that transfer fees could have been spent elsewhere. You also state that Bent and Fonz are no longer required due to not fitting in with our present style of play yet what type of player is Kozak and hasn't Lambert played two upfront so no false argument other than one you just can't answer.

 

Ok so we are getting somewhere here then - instead of sigining Kozak, Tonev, Bowery and Helenius, you would have kept Bent and Fonz. Neither one fits our style of play, neither can win regular starting places in either a struggling Fulham team or a middling Championship team and Bent alone would cost more in wages than the four players you mention. Kozak, Tonev, Bowery and Helenius already have 27 apperances between them this season, so I guess in your scenario Bent and Fonz would have appeared in the majority of our premiership games

 

Bennett was poor last season and still can't get into the team this season. ???? I said as much myself but that I thought he might still come good?? I understand that he has a back injury this season but clearly Luna is our first choice

 

The players you mention haven't shone because we were in a relegation dogfight last season and our football this season has been dire. You want both sides of the argument here - which is it ,your original point, that they are not good enough players to 'shine' (whatever you mean by that) or that they were not able to shine becasue of the situation they have been placed in? It can't be both!

 

I see you are again selecting a stat from one part of a season to substantiate your point. Here's another stat which can't be argued with. Mcleish secured our Premiership status with one game to go using the players Lambert has ostracised yet Lambert has repeated that feat after bringing his own players in. I'm hardly using an obsure fact am I? McL started ok but his average points return got worse and worse and worse as the season went on. The form across the last half of the season (19 games) was less than .8 point per game (= 30 points across as whole season) and getting worse. What part of that gives you any encouragement that they had it within themselves to completely turn that around the follwoing season??  The consensus is that Lambert took the job agreeing to slash the wage bill and move out the high earners. He achieved a higher points total, a higher league position and better football than McL, using players that were earning maybe 30% of those employed by McL.........seems like a step forward to me

 

You are substantiating your value for money comment through quantity alone as our results since Lambert's arrival have generally been poor.  You are presenting a compound argument here, that doesn't really fit together! To try and disentangle this i) Lambert has signed 16 players, with limits not just on the fee but also on their wages ii) generally, the more that you pay the better quality you recieve - Lambert would have like to bring in Sissoko, Kiyotake, Lukaku etc but he has not got the funds so instead he is making do with more cost-effective players iii) I don't know what you were expecting utilising a cut-price team follwing two consequtive relegatin battles but I didn't expect results to be great - I expected that it will be a slow, incremental journey with some steps forward and some steps back. As expensive players leave the club, younger players mature and new sigings come in, I expect results and performances to gradually improve - I just don't expect it to happen overnight

 

Edited December 15, 2013 by VillaCas

[Kwan]

Have to give it to Paul for putting up a more normal line up. Even if we lose, I won't be as disappointed (provided it's not a hammering)

[Mendi]

are the fans still backing Lambert.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

I think my opinion of him is starting to change...especially after watching today's shambolic performance!