U.S. Politics

[tonyh29]

9 hours ago, Davkaus said:

And on top of that, he wants to bring back waterboarding..

I'm of the impression it never actually stopped ... Bush circumnavigated around the detainee  treatment act with lawyers and arguing it didn't amount to cruelty or torture if employed with appropriate safeguards ... Obama  did tighten up the laws here but his amendment did not ban extraordinary rendition, in which prisoners are sent abroad to be held and possibly tortured by foreign governments.... evidence suggests some Afghanistan prisoners were transferred to Afghan security and tortured 

so maybe Trump is just changing it to bringing back water boarding by US personnel ?

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by tonyh29

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

6 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Border Control Chief just resigned, ostensibly because he knows how ridiculous Trump's wall plan is. 

Isn't it something mad over there like they all have to offer resignation letters for certain government posts once the president changes hands? (You are correct , the plan is a bit mental)

 

 

[Chindie]

All these people didn't resign, they were fired, because they aren't the best people, with the best ideas, but we're going to have the greatest people in the State Department and Border Control, you should hear how much people tell me how great these people are. We're gonna hire a wall for the Border Control, and Mexico is going to recruit them for us. The best people, the best.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

1 hour ago, maqroll said:

 

9 hours ago, Davkaus said:

And on top of that, he wants to bring back waterboarding..

 

I think we are still at the stage of a little kid walking into Disney land and pointing all the rides out "Like wow" and "they have one of those,  wait til i tell everyone at the next news conference" (Election fraud / fake news / wall building etc etc....) 

He is taking advice but I think it's down to a complicated matrix of algorithms which means the last person he talks too and not the content at this stage are probably winning.  Whoever grabs his ear before "Showtime", just a guess but something is starting to feel very off indeed.

It's getting a bit more Hunger Games and a bit less House of Cards by the minute.  I 100% believe things will unhinge if he keeps this up.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Amsterdam_Neil_D
Disruptive new method of space propulsion examined and installed. Get ready!!!

[tonyh29]

15 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Border Control Chief just resigned, ostensibly because he knows how ridiculous Trump's wall plan is. 

It might not be down to the wall ? 

i say this because he clashed way back with the Border Patrol's union, which endorsed Trump early and forcefully during the presidential campaign.The National Border Patrol Council had advocated for an insider to lead the agency and sharply criticized Morgan at almost every turn.

Source

[Chindie]

Some talk I saw earlier suggested some of Trump's executive orders are being written without consultation of lawyers, or anyone in fact, by Bannon and Miller, neither of which have any policy making experience or legal knowledge. Which is a problem.

They've also announced they'll get Mexico to pay for the wall by, well, instituting a Mexico import tax. I think the planning of that idea can be found on the back of a fag packet, if they were particularly diligent in the last 2 hours.

[Genie]

If this was a film, people would be leaving the cinema and demanding a refund about now. Utterly bonkers.

[V01]

I very impressed with Trump's presidency so far, he's gone 6 days without tweeting the nuclear codes.

[HanoiVillan]

I'm trying to avoid getting drawn into commenting too much on this thread, but I have to say there's no circle of hell low enough for a man who campaigns to bring back torture simply for his own political advantage. 

[tonyh29]

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm trying to avoid getting drawn into commenting too much on this thread, but I have to say there's no circle of hell low enough for a man who campaigns to bring back torture simply for his own political advantage. 

You can't bring back something that has never left ....

 

but it that aside , have I missed something ? All I've seen is him saying he believes Torture works and his full statement finished with

I will rely on Pompeo and Mattis and my group and if they don't want to do it that's fine. If they do want to do it then I will work toward that end.

[a m ole]

29 minutes ago, V01 said:

I very impressed with Trump's presidency so far, he's gone 6 days without tweeting the nuclear codes.

His Press Secretary did accidentally tweet his own twitter password though.

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

They've also announced they'll get Mexico to pay for the wall by, well, instituting a Mexico import tax. I think the planning of that idea can be found on the back of a fag packet, if they were particularly diligent in the last 2 hours.

Out of interest with Brexit we've had people saying that we are fools for walking away from our biggest market

what do you think Mexicos solution will be to their biggest market (84% of exports I thought I read somewhere but that may include Canada ? )

do you think they will pay for the wall ... or potentially turn their back on that market... it's probably a game of who blinks first but you have to remember they aren't dealing with a rational person here !!

From a previous post you've already decided that May is going to bend over and take it ... why do you think Mexico will be any different ? 

 

[snowychap]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

but it that aside , have I missed something ?

Yes.

You appear to have missed the point of what Hanoi has posted:

Quote

a man who campaigns to bring back torture simply for his own political advantage

In his campaign, he clearly said that 'torture works' and that waterboarding wasn't far enough (an opinion which he has expressed again once President). The clear implication (if it wasn't made explicitly) was that torture was a way of combatting ISIS (and perhaps others).

In his interview (and elswewhere, I think), he has said that he thinks it [torture] works but has been told by some (Mattis for one) that it doesn't and others [unnamed] that it does. He has said that he'll go by whatever he is told works best. He is not taking a position on torture out of any principal - whatever is most expedient (or rather whatever he is told most loud or most convincingly is most effective) is the way he will go.

All of that suggests that he was not committed on the topic out of serious thought on the morality but rather what would best sell himself to a particular sector of the electorate.

A grim, despicable and, frankly, utterly incredible man.

[HanoiVillan]

13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

You can't bring back something that has never left ....

 

but it that aside , have I missed something ? All I've seen is him saying he believes Torture works and his full statement finished with

 

I don't know, you've probably been following it more closely than I have. 

I know he hasn't ruled out reintroducing waterboarding and other torture techniques, and that in campaign speeches he promised to reintroduce waterboarding and 'a hell of a lot worse'. That's enough to damn him anyway in my book. 

EDIT: or what @snowychap said rather more eloquently. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by HanoiVillan

[StefanAVFC]

How far is too far with this utterly ridiculous media war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/media/stephen-bannon-trump-news-media.html

Quote

WASHINGTON — Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s chief White House strategist, laced into the American press during an interview on Wednesday evening, arguing that news organizations had been “humiliated” by an election outcome few anticipated, and repeatedly describing the media as “the opposition party” of the current administration.

“The media should be embarrassed and humiliated and keep its mouth shut and just listen for a while,” Mr. Bannon said during a telephone call.

“I want you to quote this,” Mr. Bannon added. “The media here is the opposition party. They don’t understand this country. They still do not understand why Donald Trump is the president of the United States.”

 

[tonyh29]

7 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Yes.

You appear to have missed the point of what Hanoi has posted:

In his campaign, he clearly said that 'torture works' and that waterboarding wasn't far enough (an opinion which he has expressed again once President). The clear implication (if it wasn't made explicitly) was that torture was a way of combatting ISIS (and perhaps others).

In his interview (and elswewhere, I think), he has said that he thinks it [torture] works but has been told by some (Mattis for one) that it doesn't and others [unnamed] that it does. He has said that he'll go by whatever he is told works best. He is not taking a position on torture out of any principal - whatever is most expedient (or rather whatever he is told most loud or most convincingly is most effective) is the way he will go.

All of that suggests that he was not committed on the topic out of serious thought on the morality but rather what would best sell himself to a particular sector of the electorate.

A grim, despicable and, frankly, utterly incredible man.

i didn't follow the campaign that closely so didn't know he'd said that during it  , hence thought it was all being based around the interview 

the notion that torture is a vote winner is not exactly a ringing endorsement of America though 

[snowychap]

What a spoon Andrew Neil is.

On This Week, he was just about to have Malloch going off and eulogizing about torture and it working 'in some circumstances' and he reins it back in. This guy is being trailed as the next US ambassador to the EU and he stopped short of pressing him on the subject? Utterly bloody gutless. Malloch was just about to wax lyrical on it and Neil was not prepared to press him.

Edited January 27, 2017 by snowychap

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

i didn't follow the campaign that closely so didn't know he'd said that during it  , hence thought it was all being based around the interview 

the notion that torture is a vote winner is not exactly a ringing endorsement of America though 

Okay. Fair enough. He has said it on a number of occasions and it has been spoken about in this thread a few times - (mainly just after the election by Hanoi, me and Awol).

Edited January 27, 2017 by snowychap

[snowychap]

 

[TheAuthority]

9 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I'm of the impression it never actually stopped ... Bush circumnavigated around the detainee  treatment act with lawyers and arguing it didn't amount to cruelty or torture if employed with appropriate safeguards ... Obama  did tighten up the laws here but his amendment did not ban extraordinary rendition, in which prisoners are sent abroad to be held and possibly tortured by foreign governments.... evidence suggests some Afghanistan prisoners were transferred to Afghan security and tortured 

so maybe Trump is just changing it to bringing back water boarding by US personnel ?

 

 

You see, he's already creating jobs in America. The man's a genius. Go Trump!