Doing a Man City

[Folski]

True, look at the Luka Modric situation, although think he wanted to leave to win Silverware.

Do you think he'd have left spurs for Real Madrid if he had to take a pay cut? Money is what its about, the possibility of sliverware is just an added bonus.

One thing to note is that I don't think players are to blame in any of this. They have short careers and its fair enough they seek out the best contracts they can get, I'd do the exact same.

Difficult situation that, you would expect that a 'promotion' to a bigger club would normally attract a pay rise.

The issue become when clubs like Chelsea and City start their spending spree, neither were big clubs and netiehr were winning things it was all about the money.

Now you could see from the first and even second wave of players they bought the majority of really good players were happy earning less at Barca, Real and Utd etc. I mean Rooney could have got £250-300k a week if he'd moved straight over to City, but he chose to stick with Utd.

Obviously now that those initial buying periods are done City and Chelsea can offer top players top wages and the chance of meaningful silverware, they are now big clubs.

But imo the very best players would rather be earning £100k a week at Utd than say £150k a week at the next club trying to buy success (QPR maybe?).

Was he not rumoured to have been on 40k a week at Spurs, then Real paid €40mill, I think it'd be fair to say you'd expect a pay rise, as you said for the "promotion". Kaka is a prime example of what you are saying as well, when he turned down City to stay at A.C. Milan. It's all relative though, the bigger clubs attract bigger sponsors and therefore bigger revenue, and can then pay bigger wages.

[Raver50032]

Yep - it's back to good old blind love for a club without a cat in hell's chance of ever recreating the 'glory days' until we get an A-rab owner.

Lockett. This thread is now pointless.

[Folski]

The only way I see us getting into the top 4 without mass investment, is if the league were to limit the number of players outside of the E.U. like in Spain or Italy, and then the league would be made up of predominantly British players and the gulf in class would be imo reduced. However, we would most likely become a Udinese and have all our best players leave and be back at square one.

[Stevo985]

The only way I see us getting into the top 4 without mass investment, is if the league were to limit the number of players outside of the E.U. like in Spain or Italy, and then the league would be made up of predominantly British players and the gulf in class would be imo reduced. However, we would most likely become a Udinese and have all our best players leave and be back at square one.

I don't think that would make the league predominantly british at all.

Predominantly european, maybe.

[darrenm]

Buying success is like playing a game with cheat mode on. I've always played a game called Civilisation where you build up your cities, your people and your empire using good management and tactics. You'd get frustrated and at times, you'd give up and turn cheat mode on so you had unlimited money and could just destroy everyone else.

The problem was that as soon as you could do that, the interest fell away. Anything you then won was an empty, hollow victory. No-one had a chance against you winning the game, so what actual point was there in playing it?

So you quickly realise that what you enjoy about playing the game is not the winning, it's not the actual final climax of doing it, it's the trials, the tribulations and the massive challenge of it all. As humans we're naturally hard-wired to constantly need to be challenged, we need to always have something to aim for, something to strive towards. You turn cheat mode on and that's suddenly all gone.

Sure I'd celebrate Villa winning anything and everything under the Man City circumstances. The fact that in 20 years time it would show Aston Villa on the plaques on the walls of Sports Directs around the country is a non-empty lasting legacy, but I'm fairly sure it would feel like there was something missing.

Which is why, with the way the club is currently set up, it's quite exciting. It draws your interest because you know there's every possibility we could beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad, or we could lose 2-0 to Southampton, and that's the challenge, that's what everyone needs.

To anyone saying that everyone buys success at one level or another, that's correct. When Randy first came in and gave money to MON, we bought limited success. However, it's on a completely different scale to money being no object. When you're playing a computer game you still have to have a certain reasonable difficulty level where you don't put cheat mode on, but at the same time, you have to play at a level where you have a chance.

In the end, taking it back to grass roots, it's about how much money you can spend based on the revenue generated by the club itself, gate receipts, sponsors, club shop etc., and that's how it's always been. It's a game of getting the most support and success where support breeds success and success breeds support. People look at Man City and can't help but feel they've cheated their way up. Where the money comes from should matter. I'd love us to be mega-rich, buy players like Toure, Dzeko, Balotelli etc., but be able to do it from filling a 100,000 seater Villa Park every week, the supporters queuing up to buy shirts, massive sponsor deals. That's the proper way, not having someone from another culture where the scale of money is completely different giving the club a leg up.

[AValon]

Buying success is like playing a game with cheat mode on. I've always played a game called Civilisation where you build up your cities, your people and your empire using good management and tactics. You'd get frustrated and at times, you'd give up and turn cheat mode on so you had unlimited money and could just destroy everyone else.

The problem was that as soon as you could do that, the interest fell away. Anything you then won was an empty, hollow victory. No-one had a chance against you winning the game, so what actual point was there in playing it?

So you quickly realise that what you enjoy about playing the game is not the winning, it's not the actual final climax of doing it, it's the trials, the tribulations and the massive challenge of it all. As humans we're naturally hard-wired to constantly need to be challenged, we need to always have something to aim for, something to strive towards. You turn cheat mode on and that's suddenly all gone.

Sure I'd celebrate Villa winning anything and everything under the Man City circumstances. The fact that in 20 years time it would show Aston Villa on the plaques on the walls of Sports Directs around the country is a non-empty lasting legacy, but I'm fairly sure it would feel like there was something missing.

Which is why, with the way the club is currently set up, it's quite exciting. It draws your interest because you know there's every possibility we could beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad, or we could lose 2-0 to Southampton, and that's the challenge, that's what everyone needs.

To anyone saying that everyone buys success at one level or another, that's correct. When Randy first came in and gave money to MON, we bought limited success. However, it's on a completely different scale to money being no object. When you're playing a computer game you still have to have a certain reasonable difficulty level where you don't put cheat mode on, but at the same time, you have to play at a level where you have a chance.

In the end, taking it back to grass roots, it's about how much money you can spend based on the revenue generated by the club itself, gate receipts, sponsors, club shop etc., and that's how it's always been. It's a game of getting the most support and success where support breeds success and success breeds support. People look at Man City and can't help but feel they've cheated their way up. Where the money comes from should matter. I'd love us to be mega-rich, buy players like Toure, Dzeko, Balotelli etc., but be able to do it from filling a 100,000 seater Villa Park every week, the supporters queuing up to buy shirts, massive sponsor deals. That's the proper way, not having someone from another culture where the scale of money is completely different giving the club a leg up.

Every now and then someone posts something actually well-worth reading.

This is one.

[Folski]

The only way I see us getting into the top 4 without mass investment, is if the league were to limit the number of players outside of the E.U. like in Spain or Italy, and then the league would be made up of predominantly British players and the gulf in class would be imo reduced. However, we would most likely become a Udinese and have all our best players leave and be back at square one.

I don't think that would make the league predominantly british at all.

Predominantly european, maybe.

Perhaps but if you look at Spain & Italy, and even Germany where they have these kind of rules, they tend to focus more on youth side of things, and as a result. Reports from 2010 before the World Cup said that on one particular weekend in the top flight that of all the players used (ie starters and subs who came on) 65% were from Spain in La Liga, 57% were Italian in Serie A, 45% German in the Bundesliga, while only 34% were from England in the Premiership.

[Bazmonkey]

Buying success is like playing a game with cheat mode on. I've always played a game called Civilisation where you build up your cities, your people and your empire using good management and tactics. You'd get frustrated and at times, you'd give up and turn cheat mode on so you had unlimited money and could just destroy everyone else.

The problem was that as soon as you could do that, the interest fell away. Anything you then won was an empty, hollow victory. No-one had a chance against you winning the game, so what actual point was there in playing it?

So you quickly realise that what you enjoy about playing the game is not the winning, it's not the actual final climax of doing it, it's the trials, the tribulations and the massive challenge of it all. As humans we're naturally hard-wired to constantly need to be challenged, we need to always have something to aim for, something to strive towards. You turn cheat mode on and that's suddenly all gone.

Sure I'd celebrate Villa winning anything and everything under the Man City circumstances. The fact that in 20 years time it would show Aston Villa on the plaques on the walls of Sports Directs around the country is a non-empty lasting legacy, but I'm fairly sure it would feel like there was something missing.

Which is why, with the way the club is currently set up, it's quite exciting. It draws your interest because you know there's every possibility we could beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad, or we could lose 2-0 to Southampton, and that's the challenge, that's what everyone needs.

To anyone saying that everyone buys success at one level or another, that's correct. When Randy first came in and gave money to MON, we bought limited success. However, it's on a completely different scale to money being no object. When you're playing a computer game you still have to have a certain reasonable difficulty level where you don't put cheat mode on, but at the same time, you have to play at a level where you have a chance.

In the end, taking it back to grass roots, it's about how much money you can spend based on the revenue generated by the club itself, gate receipts, sponsors, club shop etc., and that's how it's always been. It's a game of getting the most support and success where support breeds success and success breeds support. People look at Man City and can't help but feel they've cheated their way up. Where the money comes from should matter. I'd love us to be mega-rich, buy players like Toure, Dzeko, Balotelli etc., but be able to do it from filling a 100,000 seater Villa Park every week, the supporters queuing up to buy shirts, massive sponsor deals. That's the proper way, not having someone from another culture where the scale of money is completely different giving the club a leg up.

Every now and then someone posts something actually well-worth reading.

This is one.

10- 4 that.

Having Man City's money would be good but as a Villa fan I can I say iI am Villa because well I am and my little boy will be because thats whats happens my dad to me and me on to him.

Anyway I wouldnt't want to be a Man City fan in a way because now they have to justify their reasons for being a fan....its the old where were you when you were shit thing.....everyone at Villa park on a game day wants to be there for their love of Villa not becasue we are flavour of the month....just think of how many z list celebrities would want to get in...bet Man City are batting them off.

Money has killed the game but like someone said earlier its like winning in cheat mode, eventually it wear out...celebrating a win now is like yeah we won great game...bet a win Man City fans is a little less exciting more expected.

As for the players its a bit the same....I bet when they look back and see they have a winners medal can they really turn round and say they actually won it....i.e a Milner or a Johnson...both won a medal but did they really contribute.....I know Sky will get the kleenex out everytime their on tv but deep down when alot of them retire they really have won nothing

[Dr_Pangloss]

It's quite obvious that Modric left Spurs because he wanted to move onto the next level, and generally the 'next level' is mutually inclusive with more money.

The fact is Spurs will never be anything more than 4th place, in fact, under AVB they'll struggle to get near that. Modric is a worldclass player so it makes sense to leave, what is on balance, a pretty second rate team.

[LondonLax]

Buying success is like playing a game with cheat mode on. I've always played a game called Civilisation where you build up your cities, your people and your empire using good management and tactics. You'd get frustrated and at times, you'd give up and turn cheat mode on so you had unlimited money and could just destroy everyone else.

The problem was that as soon as you could do that, the interest fell away. Anything you then won was an empty, hollow victory. No-one had a chance against you winning the game, so what actual point was there in playing it?

So you quickly realise that what you enjoy about playing the game is not the winning, it's not the actual final climax of doing it, it's the trials, the tribulations and the massive challenge of it all. As humans we're naturally hard-wired to constantly need to be challenged, we need to always have something to aim for, something to strive towards. You turn cheat mode on and that's suddenly all gone.

Sure I'd celebrate Villa winning anything and everything under the Man City circumstances. The fact that in 20 years time it would show Aston Villa on the plaques on the walls of Sports Directs around the country is a non-empty lasting legacy, but I'm fairly sure it would feel like there was something missing.

Which is why, with the way the club is currently set up, it's quite exciting. It draws your interest because you know there's every possibility we could beat Man City 4-2 at the Etihad, or we could lose 2-0 to Southampton, and that's the challenge, that's what everyone needs.

To anyone saying that everyone buys success at one level or another, that's correct. When Randy first came in and gave money to MON, we bought limited success. However, it's on a completely different scale to money being no object. When you're playing a computer game you still have to have a certain reasonable difficulty level where you don't put cheat mode on, but at the same time, you have to play at a level where you have a chance.

In the end, taking it back to grass roots, it's about how much money you can spend based on the revenue generated by the club itself, gate receipts, sponsors, club shop etc., and that's how it's always been. It's a game of getting the most support and success where support breeds success and success breeds support. People look at Man City and can't help but feel they've cheated their way up. Where the money comes from should matter. I'd love us to be mega-rich, buy players like Toure, Dzeko, Balotelli etc., but be able to do it from filling a 100,000 seater Villa Park every week, the supporters queuing up to buy shirts, massive sponsor deals. That's the proper way, not having someone from another culture where the scale of money is completely different giving the club a leg up.

I am pretty sure Man City fans enjoyed last season more than any Villa fan enjoyed the last 30 years.

[AVFCforever1991]

Spurs offered modric a 100k a week contract and turned it down.

[Copey11]

the one thing that does frighten me about City, that I think often goes overlooked, is the amount of investment they have been doing to their facilities and academy, as well as scouting and obtaining very young players. They are setting themselves up to NOT have to spend at their current pace at some point in the near to mid future, but rather develop an assembly line of excellent talent (some of which seems to be British) in world class facilities, presumably being coached to play a specific style.

If it all comes off they will have done a truly brilliant thing. The thing that most annoyed me about City was just how MUCH more they paid players to come, sums that were never going to be approached by other clubs for certain players (Gareth Barry/Adebayor/Milner all come to mind), but now I look at it and see that process as just a catalyst for a longer term project. Blow everyone out of the water to get success, increase revenue streams (CL money), and make City attractive to players on a level additional to pure wages (silverware as well), then settle in with a young squad (they are really quite young across the board), win things, and populate your excellent academy with the best young talent around the world. Lather, rinse, repeat into perpetuity.

It is this process that I don't see being repeated in all the "new money" clubs (QPR, Malaga, Russian clubs I can't spell, even Chelsea - though they seem to buy a lot of young talent I am not sure how much development is actually being done or being prioritized).

[Amo69]

I personally think with all the money they have spent they should be a much better team. Way too much money spent on average/good players instead of real quality.(I include Barry/Milner in that). Whether that's because they couldn't bring in higher calibre or due to rules on number of British players etc I do not know. But surely with the money spent they should be a dream team wining the league comfortably.

I can see this being Mancini's final season and in comes Jose.

[stanthemanisgod]

I personally think with all the money they have spent they should be a much better team. Way too much money spent on average/good players instead of real quality.(I include Barry/Milner in that). Whether that's because they couldn't bring in higher calibre or due to rules on number of British players etc I do not know. But surely with the money spent they should be a dream team wining the league comfortably.

I can see this being Mancini's final season and in comes Jose.

But that's the issue being discussed, just because you have all the money in the world doesn't mean you can take a nothing club and buy a dream team, because to most of the world's best players success is as important as money.

You can see the same scenario with us and Lerner's money, we had to endure the Harewoods etc before we were in a position to buy the better players, now obviously we were never in a position to buy real world beaters but you can largely see an improvement in the signings as our status improved.

City are now in a position to challenge the top clubs for the top players both in terms of money and potential silverware, they are the PL Champions, the FA Cup winners and they're in the CL, only a handfull of clubs are in the same position. So now their spending power should kick them on further.

[sne]

Interesting stats from Paris SG who is one of the latest teams to "do a Man City"

(Poorly translated from Swedish paper "Aftonbladet")

All revenues point upwards since the new owners took ower at PSG:

Ticketsales:

+265%

Merchandise:

+94%

VIP-seats:

+27%

Sponsor-revenues:

+57%

Of course what this doesn't show is the massive amount of money spent on transfers and wages, but still...

Also you can not compare citys like Paris to a city like Birmingham, the amount of potential fans and sponsors in Paris are on a whole other level, as is the potential to attract top players to move here. Players like Ibrahimovic would never move his family to the midlands. Then again Samuel Eto'o moved to FC Anzhi Makhachkala in Dagestan...

[lapal_fan]

The thing with City is that buying 'average' players like Milner, Barry and Adebyor meant that they weakened us as much as it strengthed them. They bought Robinho who was an incredible purchase at the time and they tried to get Kaka a year later. Obviously he decided not to as they hadn't won anything at the time but it shows you that you have to build up (albeit more quickly) to a certain level.

If Norwich got taken over now, I guarantee Tevez wouldn't go there until they'd got champs league. What Man City did in buying their rivals best players was very smart. It's basically the only way they could get CL without gambling on buying players from overseas who may not have bedded in very well for 18 months.

They knew they'd be paying over the odds for players who in 1/2 seasons would have been useless (Bridge, Johnson etc) but it's a case of short term pain for long term gain, because now they can go for the Aguero's, Balotellis, Toure's and Silvas.