August Optimism Gauge

[Big_John_10]

Surprising how actually watching us can zap optimism.

Lowton, Ahamidi and Holman looked very average today.

I really do think we need a new winger and possibly a striker.

Bannan looked awesome today though so that helps the optimism a bit I guess.

Unfortunately, that's the Villa BJ10!

You'd think it would be easy to get used to by now.

[Mantis]

And we no longer have a manager in the Premiership who would be prepared to pay 35m for Carroll! However, we do still have assets at the club that would offset an expenditure which i have quoted.

We only have one big asset and that's Bent. I don't think flogging him would be a good idea at all.

Yes you are correct about Moyes at Everton and i would be very happy to see the same sort of success at our club but was it not you who said signing Lambert was a sign of our ambition? Lambert has a lot to prove before he would be seen in the same light as Moyes and therefore it is more than a bit premature to suggest that we have another Moyes on our hands. However if we had signed Moyes then that would indeed have shown our ambition because Moyes has proven over several seasons what a good manager he is.

Nope, don't believe I did say that. All I'm saying is that appointing Lambert doesn't necessarily mean we're unambitious. It means we're willing to take a gamble on an up and comer rather than take on a steady manager that's been around for a while.

Your correct about Benitez in that i can't prove that he would have come to us in spite of all the rumoured links with our club but GH did come to our club which disproves your statement that we couldn't attract a big name manager to our club!

That was 2010. This is 2012. Besides, Houllier had been out of the game for quite a while when we got him. Not sure he's ever been a world class manager either, as much as I rated him.

Concerning your opinion on Mcleish's CV. Well i guess my granny could have been a success managing Rangers at the time of Mcleish's tenure but then she wouldn't have ever finished third in a two horse race would she 'Mantis?'

I wasn't trying to big up McLeish's achievements. I was just saying that he's won more than Lambert and you seem to place so much stock in achievements so going by your logic McLeish would be a better choice (although I know that's not what you think).

Give it up man and move on to another debate as you've lost this one. :winkold:

Hardly. You're just not happy because we didn't appoint a "name". Guess what, everyone has to start somewhere. Moyes wasn't a name before he went to Everton, but he is now.

[danceoftheshamen]

Well firstly i am not bothered by the Forest defeat today... It happens & they start back the week before us too so should be ahead in their fitness, which may be something to do with why we flagged in the last 15 mins.

As for the season

I will, as many have posted above, also be happy with watching better football & seeing proper commitment from the players.

I will be delighted to see us play minus Heskey (Bless him)

I fully expect us to win a few, lose a few & draw not so many :|

I also fully expect it to be approaching the end of October before we really start to see how well the new signings are coping & have gelled.

So i expect several draws & even a few humiliations up until then with a few wins to boot but with further work being done in January i really don't expect much at all until the following season. So long as we avoid a relegation scrap i am reasonably happy so long as we can see clear progress.

[Morpheus]

Where did i mention selling Bent Mantis?

You basically stated that by signing Lambert we were showing ambition. No we signed an apprentice who has a lot to prove to being in the same league, to use one of your examples, Moyes!

I see you are now putting a time limit on managers in a desperate attempt to score points. GH was a big name manager the very type of manager you say we cannot attract.

You mentioned Mcleish's CV and i pointed out it's weaknesses.

Finally where have i stated 'Mantis' that i am unhappy that we didn't appoint a named manager? I have basically questioned your point that we have shown ambition by appointing Lambert when quite obviously that ambition has yet to be realized.

[VillanousOne]

I think we all just want us seeing playing without fear, giving our all and at least competing in every game. This includes not turning up with the intention of trying not to lose.

People hate the words 'transition' and 'consolidation' because ever since MON left that's all we've heard. But the issue is we probably will end up with a half decent first eleven, but as soon as we get injuries we don't have any kind of strength in depth. We already have Gabby and Dunne out before this season has even started!

Last season we seemed to always be carrying players which we can't afford to do, we expected too much from the younger players also.

At the moment are weaknesses equal our strengths. But the season hasn't started and you can expect Lambert to work his magic in January as well as the summer. But for this reason I expect to see the season to start with a sense of hope, but a team that is a work in progress.

[Mantis]

Where did i mention selling Bent Mantis?

You didn't, but we're talking about assets here and Bent's our only big one.

You basically stated that by signing Lambert we were showing ambition. No we signed an apprentice who has a lot to prove to being in the same league, to use one of your examples, Moyes!

To some extent we are. The board want him to build dynasty. I never said he was as good as Moyes (yet), I was pointing out that Moyes too was an "apprentice" at one point and look how he turned out.

I see you are now putting a time limit on managers in a desperate attempt to score points. GH was a big name manager the very type of manager you say we cannot attract.

I'm not trying to score points, I'm just pointing out a fact. Houllier was a relatively big name manager but we're in a different position now. A lot of people expect us to be battling relegation again this season (even though everyone here knows we'll do much better than that). Our profile simply isn't as high as it was then.

You mentioned Mcleish's CV and i pointed out it's weaknesses.

I'm already aware of its weaknesses thanks. I was just pointing out how flawed your logic is. You're putting Lambert down because he hasn't achieved much and I was saying that achievements aren't everything, McLeish being a big example. He won a lot in Scotland and a League Cup here but that doesn't mean he's not one of the worst managers in British football.

Finally where have i stated 'Mantis' that i am unhappy that we didn't appoint a named manager? I have basically questioned your point that we have shown ambition by appointing Lambert when quite obviously that ambition has yet to be realized.

That's the impression I'm getting.

Seems some always want something to moan about. Wonder what VT would do if Lambert had a really good first season?

[Morpheus]

Edit.

[Morpheus]

Where did i mention selling Bent Mantis?

You didn't, but we're talking about assets here and Bent's our only big one.

You basically stated that by signing Lambert we were showing ambition. No we signed an apprentice who has a lot to prove to being in the same league, to use one of your examples, Moyes!

To some extent we are. The board want him to build dynasty. I never said he was as good as Moyes (yet), I was pointing out that Moyes too was an "apprentice" at one point and look how he turned out.

I see you are now putting a time limit on managers in a desperate attempt to score points. GH was a big name manager the very type of manager you say we cannot attract.

I'm not trying to score points, I'm just pointing out a fact. Houllier was a relatively big name manager but we're in a different position now. A lot of people expect us to be battling relegation again this season (even though everyone here knows we'll do much better than that). Our profile simply isn't as high as it was then.

You mentioned Mcleish's CV and i pointed out it's weaknesses.

I'm already aware of its weaknesses thanks. I was just pointing out how flawed your logic is. You're putting Lambert down because he hasn't achieved much and I was saying that achievements aren't everything, McLeish being a big example. He won a lot in Scotland and a League Cup here but that doesn't mean he's not one of the worst managers in British football.

Finally where have i stated 'Mantis' that i am unhappy that we didn't appoint a named manager? I have basically questioned your point that we have shown ambition by appointing Lambert when quite obviously that ambition has yet to be realized.

That's the impression I'm getting.

Seems some always want something to moan about. Wonder what VT would do if Lambert had a really good first season?

Gabby and N'Zogbia are assets are they not. If they're not then our chairman wouldn't be too pleased to hear about that.

Wrong again Mantis. You posted that we were showing ambition by signing Lambert. I rightly argued that your statement was premature in that ambition was not realized yet!

When GH came to our club were we not in a similar position whereby the team needed a rebuild so you're wrong again.

I also haven't said anything derogatory about Lambert. I have however implied what he is, a manager still learning his trade with one season of experience in the Premiership who's appointment can not be seen as one of ambition until he actually proves himself by getting us the required results on a consistent basis. Even though it was a friendly, losing 3-1 to Forest doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Finally i'm not responsible for what you think, only what i post, so i would advise you to get over it and move on to a debate that you can actually win.

[BigCarew]

I don't see how losing in a friendly is such a problem... we were never going to win every friendly. And as Lambert said, its about fitness, confidence etc. Also look at other teams, Man City were poor abroad and Arsenal struggled too, West Ham lost 3 1 at Ipswich yesterday. I'm sure Man City fans aren't losing faith or confidence with their manager or team from friendly results.

[Morpheus]

Difference is our team against Forest was probably close to our best team.

[Ads]

I dont think we need to spend 35 million to make 6th.

We have something perhaps only City, Man United and Chelsea have; a 20 goal a season striker. If we can keep building and importantly add an extra forward and that out an out winger to supply him, we will do well.

We are four or five away at the moment but then the squad hasn't been renewed in two summers.

[danceoftheshamen]

I dont think we need to spend 35 million to make 6th.

We have something perhaps only City, Man United and Chelsea have; a 20 goal a season striker. If we can keep building and importantly add an extra forward and that out an out winger to supply him, we will do well.

We are four or five away at the moment but then the squad hasn't been renewed in two summers.

The only problem is if that 20 goal a season striker gets injured...As we found out for the second half of last season which very nearly resulted in us getting relegated.....So the quicker we get back up the better

[DeepDish]

I am a huge optimist, and can see Villa being among the top 8 this seson with a few of more signings (LB, Striker, Winger).

Have not paid any attention to pre season matches. Only read what the results are after the match and looked at the line up.

[Ads]

Players do get injured but I dont think Bent is prone to it. He wont have to play on a diabolical egg chasing pitch until May.

I think we're agreed on what we need though.

[AstonMartin82]

Never heard of him before...

Can't comment...

[caw2510]

still opptomistict even after yesterdays loss. we kept the ball well even if a lot of it was passing for the sake of it but after last season im not going to complain

[Mantis]

Gabby and N'Zogbia are assets are they not. If they're not then our chairman wouldn't be too pleased to hear about that.

Not big assets. I reckon at the moment we'd probably get about £10m-£12m tops. Even then, what if nobody wants to buy them?

Wrong again Mantis. You posted that we were showing ambition by signing Lambert. I rightly argued that your statement was premature in that ambition was not realized yet!

It's all about opinion. Personally I think we are as I think appointing an up and comer is much more ambitious than just appointing a steady plodder. So no, not wrong again.

When GH came to our club were we not in a similar position whereby the team needed a rebuild so you're wrong again.

We'd just finished 6th. Obviously we were never going to replicate that even before Houllier came. Last season we finished 16th. After two poor seasons the profile of the club isn't as high as it once was. We also don't know how much money Randy is willing to back the new manager with, so it's all just speculation at this point as to whether we'd be able to get a "name". Again, not wrong. You need to get out of the habit of doing this. It's petty.

I also haven't said anything derogatory about Lambert. I have however implied what he is, a manager still learning his trade with one season of experience in the Premiership who's appointment can not be seen as one of ambition until he actually proves himself by getting us the required results on a consistent basis. Even though it was a friendly, losing 3-1 to Forest doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

And he's got bags of potential after doing a fantastic job with Norwich. So what if he's still learning his trade? Everyone has to start somewhere.

What about all those other pre-season wins? It's pre-season FFS. The results don't matter a great deal. If we start losing loads of games or putting in poor performances when the actual season starts then yes I'd understand the lack of confidence.

Finally i'm not responsible for what you think, only what i post, so i would advise you to get over it and move on to a debate that you can actually win.

I think if you have to resort to saying petty things like "move on to a debate that you can actually win" then you're the one that's losing the debate, not me.

[CI]

For me, the squad is still lightweight and we have a powderpuff midfield.

I would like to see us as add in the following priority sequence -

1. A no nonsense, good quality DCM. We have to replace Stan

2. A good quality winger. My patience with NZogbia is almost out

3. A goal scorer. We are overly reliant on Bent, we need another option

We still have almost a month to get the above done so panic is not an option

[KHV]

For me, the squad is still lightweight and we have a powderpuff midfield.

I would like to see us as add in the following priority sequence -

1. A no nonsense, good quality DCM. We have to replace Stan

2. A good quality winger. My patience with NZogbia is almost out

3. A goal scorer. We are overly reliant on Bent, we need another option

We still have almost a month to get the above done so panic is not an option

I agree with everything you have said but I would also add in that we need a right back, a left back and another centre back.

Clark is not a very good centre half, Dunne i believe is well past his best, Baker has never looked convincing and Vlaar is new to the league so I think we are weak in the middle. In the full back area Warnock has one good game every couple of months, Stevens isnt up to much, Hutton is awful, Lichaj is very ordinary, Herd is not really a defender and from what I have seen from Lowton does not fill me with much confidence. Couple that with our poor midfield and I think we are going to be just as poor at the back as we have been in the last couple of seasons.

[terrytini]

I feel as good as I need to feel going into the season, whereas last year I felt as bad as it was possible to feel.

We will play good football, (as we have all pre-season for starters) so I can enjoy watching us and not feel embarrassed.

We will use the squad well, and use tactics well, and have players as well motivated as any.

As far as how we will do, I see us winning 10 games at home and 6 or so away, with 10 draws, getting up around 55-60 points. I wont be too bothered if it is a bit less, but I think we will go out to win games and do so with enough frequency to enjoy the season.

I also think we have a great chance to do well in a cup with a little luck.

Unlike a few others, I think Zog is showing some form, and have less fears about the defence. Watching the Forest game - which seems to have dissappointed a few fans - I actually thought we played some terrific (albeit half pace friendly style) stuff in parts. It was clear there was an energy gap between the 2 sides second half, and still a fair bit of novelty to some of the players and combinations.

I'm also quite certain PL knows where we need to build and has been told he can.

No thanks to a 'marquee' signing though - ugly phrase and pointless.