Chindie Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 A legal row has erupted in the US over a set-top box that lets viewers skip over adverts in recorded TV shows. Three US TV broadcasters, Fox, NBC and CBS, have sued the maker of the device, Dish Network, in a bid to ensure viewers see ads. Dish Network has filed a separate lawsuit which asks a court to declare that ad-skipping can go ahead. The networks fear that if viewers choose not to see ads their main source of revenue will dry up. The Hopper digital video recorder was unveiled in early 2012 by Dish Network. On 10 May it added an "auto hop" feature that allowed viewers to completely skip over adverts that interrupted shows they had recorded. The lawsuits of the TV networks, which were filed individually, allege that the ad hopping is illegal because it involves the gadget making an unauthorised version of a copyrighted TV show. In its lawsuit Fox claims showing a programme without ads amounts to re-broadcasting - which violates agreements Dish has with the company. Fox spokesman Scott Goggin said the ad hopping feature could end up "destroying the fundamental underpinnings of the broadcast television ecosystem". The large US TV networks depend on cash from ads for survival. Worldwide spending on TV ads looks set to reach $200bn (£128bn) by 2017. To fend off the claims of the networks, Dish has asked a court to look into the row and declare that the Hopper DVR does not violate copyright. Media analyst Todd Mitchell at Brean Murray said introducing the ad hopping was a negotiating tactic by Dish which wants to pay less to air shows from large broadcasters. "This is about programming costs," said Mr Mitchell. "Dish is saying, if you want to charge me up to the wazoo, we will disable commercials. But if you charge us less, we can disable the feature." Dish Network is the second largest satellite broadcaster in the US and has about 14 million customers. Ze Beeb I think this is great. A company gets fed up of being charged through the nose to air shows, so shoves 2 fingers up to all the networks by making a tv box that can at the press of a button negate advertising on recorded shows, threatening the broadcasters revenues. Anything that pisses off advertisers can probably be considered a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 Seems weird as any TV recorder lets you skip adverts. Ok you might physically be seeing them for the 5 seconds it takes to fast forward, rather than skip. But you're still not watching the adverts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 Yeah it does seem a little strange considering you've always been able to fast forward the adverts anyway. It's an interesting debate, I don't see a problem with skipping adverts anyway. Maybe it's just me, but does anyone ever actually watch an advert and think to themselves "Ooooh, i'm going to go and buy that now?" I don't think i've ever seen one advert which has made me actually want a product. It just goes in one ear and out the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 28, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 That is basically the argument that the Dish Network have made. They argue that loads of TV boxes already offer features that let people skip chunks of ads, be that 30 second skip features or simply fast forward, and that people already choose to not be an audience to ads by changing channel or going for a piss. Fox's claim that recording a show without ads is tantamount to making a knock off copy of it is laughable, especially since the US Supreme court ruled years ago that recording something for personal use after broadcast is completely legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I've seen this online aswell, there's a thing you can use (pay for) that skips adverts on Youtube and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 Yeah it does seem a little strange considering you've always been able to fast forward the adverts anyway. It's an interesting debate, I don't see a problem with skipping adverts anyway. Maybe it's just me, but does anyone ever actually watch an advert and think to themselves "Ooooh, i'm going to go and buy that now?" I don't think i've ever seen one advert which has made me actually want a product. It just goes in one ear and out the next. That's not really the point of a lot of adverts though. If it's a new product that you didn't know existed then yes, their aim is to make you sit up and say "I want one of those" But usually it's just to get you to choose them over someone else for something you'd buy anyway. So when you think "hmmm I need some washing powder" you automatically go and pick up some Bold because it's the first one you thought of. It's subconcious to a certain degree. Anyway, that's off topic. On topic, I have wondered in the past if companies might start tailoring adverts to sky+ boxes (or similar boxes). Like for example the advert would just be 30 seconds of one shot. A picture of the product or a slogan. That way when you're fast forwarding you'd still see a legible advert, even if it's only for a second or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2012 On one hand the broadcasters haven't a leg to stand on. On the other hand, the American justice system is lobbied by big business, so justice will have little or nothing to do with the decision. I wouldn't like to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 28, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 Yeah adverts these days are increasingly about brand awareness more than 'product' awareness. The advertising world has a problem though, people are increasingly 'advertising savvy' and have found ways to ignore it - adblock online, being able to zone out adverts and not giving them attention, etc. The convenience of DVRs for skipping ads has terrified advertising agencies for a while and they've slowly begun to react to it. They weren't happy about people being able to fast forward ads at will, but a company permitting people to completely remove ads from major shows really has them, and by extension the networks relying on ad revenue, worried, especially as people increasingly use DVRs to 'timeshift' programmes. When you had to use videos there was a trade off, the video was a consumable that eventually wore out and the quality was usually crap, and it was sometimes awkward to get everything ready for recording. Now, you press a button and get a perfect recording, probably in HD, to watch when you like and you don't need to worry about running out of tapes or the tape degrading and costing you more money - you watch something, and delete it, and can use the same space to record something just as well next time. So, with busy lifestyles and everything else vying for attention, recording something to watch later is a no brainer... The reaction will see more product placement, possibly overt product placement, in shows, more obvious show sponsorship, and adding in unskippable to advertising more thoroughly - something thats already in place for on demand video. On demand is one future of tv viewing (where companies will just put their entire schedule on a library for you to watch as and when you like, rather than the iplayer style we have now) and you can bet the advertisers will chuck money at broadcasters to add in forced advert breaks to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Dish Network managed to get the settlement of Clark, Texas, to rename itself "Dish" in return for free satellite tv equipment. Which made me wonder, if the offer had been rump steak, would they have been content to call their village "Arse"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 Dish Network managed to get the settlement of Clark, Texas, to rename itself "Dish" in return for free satellite tv equipment. Which made me wonder, if the offer had been rump steak, would they have been content to call their village "Arse"?Probably. Miscellaneous crazy town names Hopeulikit, Georgia Knockemstiff, Ohio Cut and Shoot, Texas Slaughterville, Oklahoma Jot 'Em Down, Texas Rough And Ready, California Faggarts Crossroads, NC. 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Why, Arizona Whynot, Mississippi Whynot, North Carolina Ynot, Montana What do they say? Talking Rock, Georgia Hollow Rock, Tennessee Blowing Rock, North Carolina Point of Rocks, Wyoming Bean Rock, Alabama Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 28, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2012 In a way, we shouldn't be happy about this. If we like TV, they're funded by adverts, so losing advertising revenue means losing their funding and, you would think, the quality of programming? Or will it be a case of the big channels will always survive, and the 7 billion other channels that pop up every day will suffer and die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 In a way, we shouldn't be happy about this. If we like TV, they're funded by adverts, so losing advertising revenue means losing their funding and, you would think, the quality of programming? Or will it be a case of the big channels will always survive, and the 7 billion other channels that pop up every day will suffer and die? Advertising revenue doesn't seem to have improved the quality of programmes. The opposite, in fact. A thousand channels of utter shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I find most of the ads on TV are incredibly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Miscellaneous crazy town names Some of those names sure are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturdaygig Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I have a box and I always skip ads, and indeed i hardly ever watch live TV any more. However, if we all skip ads, no advertisers will use TV, TV companies will have no money and there'll be no programmes on for me to watch. How does this cycle get broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Miscellaneous crazy town names Some of those names sure are crazy. That's one long list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I had a JVC video way way back that used to skip the adverts when it recorded anything that had them .. used PDC or something if i recall seem to recall the early TIVO box did it as well and then had to drop it due to pressure from the advertisers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If I was to watch for example a movie on one of the main networks over here, you will get about 20 mins ad-free at the start (to suck you in) after which you get something like 4 mins ads, 8 mins movie, 4 mins ads etc etc. Maybe if the broadcasters stopped using so many **** adverts and stopped tricks like massively increasing the volume when they come one, people wouldn't be so keen to skip them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I had a JVC video way way back that used to skip the adverts when it recorded anything that had them .. used PDC or something if i recall Yeah, we had the same. Very clever back in the day. Also Video+ was great, not many people knew what the **** it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I had a JVC video way way back that used to skip the adverts when it recorded anything that had them .. used PDC or something if i recall Yeah, we had the same. Very clever back in the day. Also Video+ was great, not many people knew what the **** it was. Video+, wow, blast from the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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