Ingram85 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Just now, Rugeley Villa said: I’ve experienced the supernatural. I stopped watching wresting when I was 10 and a half because I found out it wasn’t real. Do you like bread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Honestly I’m not. I’m not the most educated on religion but at the minute and got the past 12 months I’ve been very interested in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 On 21/04/2019 at 15:17, chrisp65 said: I think the way to do this is a blend of relentless lectures by rote, condescension, monotone youtube lectures, really really interesting selective data analysis, literal dissection of stories and lazy generalised insults. Whatever you do, do not try to see things from the other person's perspective, as they are clearly retarded. It's why the Brexit referendum went so well, so just rinse and repeat. I was raised Catholic and there was a period where I truly believed in it all without question so I know that perspective very well. Would I say I was retarded ? Not at all . The thing about religion is that it isn't based upon intelligence, logic or evidence. It's an emotional belief which plays on a human's deepest fears . In essence it can make even the smartest of people believe the most retarded of concepts. Not because it makes sense but because it's comforting. The person isn't retarded . Religion is . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brumerican said: I was raised Catholic and there was a period where I truly believed in it all without question so I know that perspective very well. Would I say I was retarded ? Not at all . The thing about religion is that it isn't based upon intelligence, logic or evidence. It's an emotional belief which plays on a human's deepest fears . In essence it can make even the smartest of people believe the most retarded of concepts. Not because it makes sense but because it's comforting. The person isn't retarded . Religion is . It's not just comforting though is it. It can be an off the shelf perfectly good and reasonable code to live a life by. I can't pretend to know much about catholicism, other than there appears to be a lot around it which is historically all about serving the catholic hierarchy. I think the catholic church were quite offish about letting the punter read the book for themselves. From a more protestant / lutheran angle, the idea is to read the book yourself and make up your own mind on what's important. This includes some pretty good basic rules for life, not to murder, not to steal, not to covet your neighbour's hot tub. As a basic set of rules to work through life to, they still hang together pretty well. That they might have been borrowed from other previous religions or codes, that they might now appear 'obvious' isn't really relevant. If it works for someone, it works. If it's a placebo but it works, then it works. So I don't think all religion is automatically retarded. Plenty of people have had perfectly positive lives following a religion. Not all, but then not all atheists have been saints either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Not all, but then not all atheists have been saints either. You'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who has carried out genocide on a planetary scale If you did I wouldn't listen to his opinions on not murdering your neighbours. Praising religion due to it's pacifying ability is such a shitty argument . If you're only being good because you seek reward or fear punishment then you're an ant in an ant farm. A spiritual serf. This isn't "nice" or benign. It's preying on fear. I'll stick with the retarded diagnosis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Brumerican said: You'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who has carried out genocide on a planetary scale If you did I wouldn't listen to his opinions on not murdering your neighbours. Praising religion due to it's pacifying ability is such a shitty argument . If you're only being good because you seek reward or fear punishment then you're an ant in an ant farm. A spiritual serf. This isn't "nice" or benign. It's preying on fear. I'll stick with the retarded diagnosis. Ahh, the scoreboard argument, genocide top trumps. The killing only started once Sunday school kicked in. Changed the whole human dynamic from peace and poetry competitions. I don't think I said anything about pacifying people, I think I said it was a pretty good code to live a life by not to steal or murder or worry what the other guy owns. It's the opposite of spiritual serfdom, read it yourself, decide for yourself what bits are important. Ant farms? Preying on fear? I think you've you've responded to something that wasn't said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted April 23, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2019 7 hours ago, chrisp65 said: not all atheists have been saints None have, but that’s because the religious pope man only picks other religious folks to sanctify. It’s pure discrimination, so it is. Antisceptic cleansing. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Ahh, the scoreboard argument, genocide top trumps. The killing only started once Sunday school kicked in. Changed the whole human dynamic from peace and poetry competitions. I don't think I said anything about pacifying people, I think I said it was a pretty good code to live a life by not to steal or murder or worry what the other guy owns. It's the opposite of spiritual serfdom, read it yourself, decide for yourself what bits are important. Ant farms? Preying on fear? I think you've you've responded to something that wasn't said. The genocide point is relevant because I think living by a code handed down by the the sickest murderer in fictional history is inherently disgusting regardless of the end result. As for your 2nd attempt at trying to make me revisit a book that i had read from cover to cover before I was 14, and then went on to study academically at A level ? I Will have to politely decline sir. My problem with religion isn't because I' don't understand the bible. It's because I do understand it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 9 hours ago, Brumerican said: The genocide point is relevant because I think living by a code handed down by the the sickest murderer in fictional history is inherently disgusting regardless of the end result. As for your 2nd attempt at trying to make me revisit a book that i had read from cover to cover before I was 14, and then went on to study academically at A level ? I Will have to politely decline sir. My problem with religion isn't because I' don't understand the bible. It's because I do understand it. I've heard people say the most surefire way of becoming an atheist is to read the bible from cover to cover. I don't know what percentage of people actually do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 9 hours ago, Brumerican said: The genocide point is relevant because I think living by a code handed down by the the sickest murderer in fictional history is inherently disgusting regardless of the end result. As for your 2nd attempt at trying to make me revisit a book that i had read from cover to cover before I was 14, and then went on to study academically at A level ? I Will have to politely decline sir. My problem with religion isn't because I' don't understand the bible. It's because I do understand it. So, to be clear, I'm not trying to get you to read anything. You live how you want to. In the nicest possible way, I have no interest here. You've already said you've done the catholic thing, I've already said I don't know much about catholicism. It's just that away from the hierarchy of catholicism there are other ways to go about it. To read it for yourself (I'm not meaning you personally, this is not a first, second or third attempt at a conversion). To decide for yourself (again, I don't mean 'you', but I struggle saying 'one' it sounds a bit posh). Whilst I can see it's good advice not to take the word of established church without question. I'd say it's equally wise not to take the word of VT without question. My original point was that the hard line banging on and on demanding people are utterly wrong rarely wins converts. I think that point still stands. A bit of empathy is always a good thing. One thing I struggle with is the VT atheist demand that the book is an absolute work of fantasy, but then taking the stories as some sort of facts about death tolls. It's a bit of an obsession with some, the body count. Again, I don't know very many catholics so perhaps I'm missing out here, but I can't think of anyone I know or have met that absolutely believes the bible as a book of hard facts. I can't see how they would, it's full of different accounts of the same events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted April 23, 2019 17 hours ago, Brumerican said: You'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who has carried out genocide on a planetary scale Soz, I think that's bollocks. It took me half a nanosecond to come up with Pol Pot, Mao and Joseph Stalin. I deliberately left out Hitler (As I don't think he was an atheist as many claim) but the other three were all Marxists and eschewed any religion they may have been born into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, bickster said: Soz, I think that's bollocks. It took me half a nanosecond to come up with Pol Pot, Mao and Joseph Stalin. I deliberately left out Hitler (As I don't think he was an atheist as many claim) but the other three were all Marxists and eschewed any religion they may have been born into When I say planetary scale I mean an entire planet's worth of land based sentient lifeforms. Those dude's don't come close . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So, to be clear, I'm not trying to get you to read anything. You live how you want to. In the nicest possible way, I have no interest here. You've already said you've done the catholic thing, I've already said I don't know much about catholicism. It's just that away from the hierarchy of catholicism there are other ways to go about it. To read it for yourself (I'm not meaning you personally, this is not a first, second or third attempt at a conversion). To decide for yourself (again, I don't mean 'you', but I struggle saying 'one' it sounds a bit posh). Whilst I can see it's good advice not to take the word of established church without question. I'd say it's equally wise not to take the word of VT without question. My original point was that the hard line banging on and on demanding people are utterly wrong rarely wins converts. I think that point still stands. A bit of empathy is always a good thing. One thing I struggle with is the VT atheist demand that the book is an absolute work of fantasy, but then taking the stories as some sort of facts about death tolls. It's a bit of an obsession with some, the body count. Again, I don't know very many catholics so perhaps I'm missing out here, but I can't think of anyone I know or have met that absolutely believes the bible as a book of hard facts. I can't see how they would, it's full of different accounts of the same events. I don't actually believe God exists so his murder count is zero. I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of using that book as guide to morality and if you've been reading my posts over the years you'll see I have certainly softened my approach. I have empathy in spades but I don't see religion as a benign force for good like you do. At it's heart , religion is evil and dangerous. Believe what you want but we certainly should not be teaching this shit to children . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I've heard people say the most surefire way of becoming an atheist is to read the bible from cover to cover. I don't know what percentage of people actually do this. Very few .It's not a good read . It would explain why I spent the following 25 years reading Viz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Just now, Brumerican said: Believe what you want but we certainly should not be teaching this shit to children . So, again I guess it might be that catholic thing, but I wasn't taught religion in school. Well, we had a class called 'R.E." where we learnt the list of religions, but we also had all sorts of other stuff tumbled in to that class, sexual health, being nice to girls, racism is bad. I think it's called citizenship class or some such title these days. Over the 162 pages of this thread, i think I have decided school in the Midlands must have been a traumatic ordeal of choir practise and dodgy vicar dodging. I do wonder if I just went to a different type of secular 70's comp to most. I don't recognise half the experiences you guys mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: being nice to girls Clearly wasn't a religionist school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So, again I guess it might be that catholic thing, but I wasn't taught religion in school. Well, we had a class called 'R.E." where we learnt the list of religions, but we also had all sorts of other stuff tumbled in to that class, sexual health, being nice to girls, racism is bad. I think it's called citizenship class or some such title these days. Over the 162 pages of this thread, i think I have decided school in the Midlands must have been a traumatic ordeal of choir practise and dodgy vicar dodging. I do wonder if I just went to a different type of secular 70's comp to most. I don't recognise half the experiences you guys mention. I'm starting to get the impression you've never blew a priest ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 It might be blown instead of blew but our English teacher was also weirdly a priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Brumerican said: I'm starting to get the impression you've never blew a priest ? No idea, but that's the mystery of the glory hole for you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts