Rugeley Villa Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: So you agree a logical or reasoned argument won't win you over and that those of us who wish to proselytize atheism should be reaching for an emotional hook? I get how people can get hooked into religion emotionally. It’s kind of like a comfort thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 37 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: So you think it is a reasonable possibility Jesus is the son of God? But you might be skeptical that an angel foretold of the immaculate conception, but it was immaculate nevertheless? If so what persuades you? This does not quite make sense to me Mr Rugeley. You believe God is a possibility, fair enough; but, you believe (apparently unconditionally) there is a devil? Is this not a bit of a tautology? Perhaps, I think I see the light now without having any fantastic beliefs? What are my reasons for needing this belief. Here are some sayings reportedly from Jesus: Otherwise, avoid rules and follow the truth you discover yourself. Act from awareness, not habit or convention. Don’t blindly repeat rituals. Don’t trust those with spiritual pretensions. I have not facts or proof, but it’s just a spiritual belief. What made me realise that I was religious was when I realised that to believe in the devil then you must believe in god surely? I don’t believe the bible word for word and I don’t think people should live by it word for word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 43 minutes ago, Brumerican said: What are the planetary genocide stats for both candidates ? Is drowning kids good ? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I have not facts or proof, but it’s just a spiritual belief. What made me realise that I was religious was when I realised that to believe in the devil then you must believe in god surely? I don’t believe the bible word for word and I don’t think people should live by it word for word. You appear to say here, you believed in the Devil and that made your belief in a god somehow reasonable? Personally I would be far from sure of a belief in the Devil. If someone does something really horrific I would not attribute that to a supernatural being, nor would I attribute something to god when someone does something nice. To me it seems perfectly obvious that just is the way the world is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: You appear to say here, you believed in the Devil and that made your belief in a god somehow reasonable? Personally I would be far from sure of a belief in the Devil. If someone does something really horrific I would not attribute that to a supernatural being, nor would I attribute something to god when someone does something nice. To me it seems perfectly obvious that just is the way the world is. Not all evil acts commited are the devils work. I mean look at all the evil that has been done in the name of God. I didn’t base my belief in the devil based on that anyway. There are I believe demonic forces that enter our world. You fight these forces with God and the power of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Not all evil acts commited are the devils work. I mean look at all the evil that has been done in the name of God. I didn’t base my belief in the devil based on that anyway. There are I believe demonic forces that enter our world. You fight these forces with God and the power of Christ. Well good luck fighting those demonic forces with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 19, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: I have not facts or proof, but it’s just a spiritual belief. What made me realise that I was religious was when I realised that to believe in the devil then you must believe in god surely? So, why do you believe in this 'devil'? Do you not think you might have listened to a bit too much Black Sabbath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 6 hours ago, mjmooney said: So, why do you believe in this 'devil'? Do you not think you might have listened to a bit too much Black Sabbath? You’ve misunderstood black sabbath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted April 20, 2019 Administrator Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 19/04/2019 at 20:53, Rugeley Villa said: Of course, yes. When interacting with your own religion, what tools do you use to determine which are the good bits and which are the bad bits? You talk about the devil and God, but you've clearly never read the Bible. Where did your beliefs come from originally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 10 hours ago, limpid said: When interacting with your own religion, what tools do you use to determine which are the good bits and which are the bad bits? You talk about the devil and God, but you've clearly never read the Bible. Where did your beliefs come from originally? I use morals as to what’s right and wrong. And the fact that we are in the year 2019 and not in the time when the bible was written. Religion as I mentioned can lead people down a positive path , but it clearly can lead some people down a negative and dark path. I have read parts of the bible. My belief in god and the devils has always been there I think. There was no specific moment in my life that made me believe in it. It’s just always been there. Even years ago when I showed no interest in religion, if you would have asked me do I believe in god or whatever, I’d have probably have said yes. That’s all I can say on the matter . Maybe it’s because I believe our spirit carries on after death . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted April 21, 2019 Administrator Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: I use morals as to what’s right and wrong. And the fact that we are in the year 2019 and not in the time when the bible was written. Religion as I mentioned can lead people down a positive path , but it clearly can lead some people down a negative and dark path. I have read parts of the bible. My belief in god and the devils has always been there I think. There was no specific moment in my life that made me believe in it. It’s just always been there. Even years ago when I showed no interest in religion, if you would have asked me do I believe in god or whatever, I’d have probably have said yes. That’s all I can say on the matter . Maybe it’s because I believe our spirit carries on after death . "Soul" is translated from the word "breath" (from the bits of the Bible plagiarising from earlier air gods). Perhaps you mean something else by "spirit" because I doubt you think that your lungs carry on after death too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) Whether you believe in a religion or not I don’t really understand the need to try and offend those that do. What one person may find funny somebody else may find offensive. Thats nothing to do with religion that’s just common decency in my opinion. Edited April 21, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted April 21, 2019 Administrator Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Whether you believe in a religion or not I don’t really understand the need to try and offend those that do. What one person may find funny somebody else may find offensive. Thats nothing to do with religion that’s just common decency in my opinion. Respecting other people’s beliefs regardless of your own views on them. Why, who is trying to offend someone? Or are you getting offended on behalf of other people? I respect people. I do not respect opinions. Neither should anyone else. Including this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, limpid said: Why, who is trying to offend someone? Or are you getting offended on behalf of other people? I respect people. I do not respect opinions. Neither should anyone else. Including this one. A bit of an extreme example but it appeared that Charlie Hebdo were trying to offend someone. That’s fine if you do not respect opinions but do you think it’s right to intentionally mock them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 21, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 21, 2019 31 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: A bit of an extreme example but it appeared that Charlie Hebdo were trying to offend someone. That’s fine if you do not respect opinions but do you think it’s right to intentionally mock them? I'm not sure if it is 'right', it is at best rude and inconsiderate. But it absolutely MUST be permissable without fear of violent reaction. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm not sure if it is 'right', it is at best rude and inconsiderate. But it absolutely MUST be permissable without fear of violent reaction. Oh yeah that’s something we should be able to agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, limpid said: "Soul" is translated from the word "breath" (from the bits of the Bible plagiarising from earlier air gods). Perhaps you mean something else by "spirit" because I doubt you think that your lungs carry on after death too. I also believe there is a lung afterlife . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted April 21, 2019 Administrator Share Posted April 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I also believe there is a lung afterlife . We have evidence that "self" is an emergent property of our brains. Your opinions, motives, prejudices and assumptions can all change with physical changes to the brain. This is demonstrable. So what do you think continues after you are dead and how did you become convinced of this? If you'd have grown up in a part of the world where the main religion doesn't think that you live forever, would you still have your current beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 43 minutes ago, limpid said: We have evidence that "self" is an emergent property of our brains. Your opinions, motives, prejudices and assumptions can all change with physical changes to the brain. This is demonstrable. So what do you think continues after you are dead and how did you become convinced of this? If you'd have grown up in a part of the world where the main religion doesn't think that you live forever, would you still have your current beliefs? Our energy carries on. I’ve experienced supernatural events, and I know of other people that have too. Who knows what I’d think in another part of the world, but I firmly believe the spirit world exists and religion wasn’t what reason for that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) I’m going to write a book about a story about a man made from choc ices and cheese strings who made the world and everything. He had some good morals that anyone could follow really, kind of like, accepted by society morals, not strictly from his teachings, stuff anyone knows anyway really but yeah, they are still in the book so count right? He was also a completely genocidal maniac who spoke mainly in riddles. He had children made from breeze blocks and kangaroo spittle who spread his message. I have no proof of their existence but hopefully thousands of years from now some people might still believe. Who knows. All the genocidal stuff might be excused as ‘mysterious ways’ or ‘trials’ because after all, there were some good morals in his teachings so he wasn’t all bad. Oh and anything you succeed at in life he will take credit for as well. Again, can’t prove he actually existed but there is a book that says so at least! Edited April 21, 2019 by Ingram85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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