Voinjama Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Do you not think referring to religion and its teachings as fairy tales and qustioning the sanity and intelligence of religious people is a bit wrong? If the truth be told I am agnostic. I simply dont know what to believe, and I am in a confused state. Like most of you I was born a Christian, as that was what my family is, and that is what I had drummed into me at school. But as I got older, things happened in my life and in society that made me question things. I dont know what to believe but maybe if there is a God he/she will give me a sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 4, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 4, 2012 Fairy tales are stories made up by (usually) nameless people in the past. I think that describes religion quite well. You say "maybe if there is a god". That actually makes you at least a weak atheist as your world view already allows that it is possible there is no god. I am also agnostic (I'm also an atheist - the two aren't mutually exclusive and barely related). Do you actually want to learn about this or is people referring to poorly written fables as "fairy stories" really a show-stopper for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2012 Do you not think referring to religion and its teachings as fairy tales and qustioning the sanity and intelligence of religious people is a bit wrong? Examine those religions (especially the abrahamic religions) and their wonderful teachings, you might discover that they are really hate filled leading people to think really nasty things are in fact right. If that was the case do you think people should respect that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Limpid, I would like you to explain how you are agnostic and atheist at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Limpid, I would like you to explain how you are agnostic and atheist at the same time. Because agnostic doesn't mean what you think it means. Agnosticism deals with knowledge. Atheism deals with belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Limpid, I would like you to explain how you are agnostic and atheist at the same time. Schizophrenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 maybe if there is a God he/she will give me a sign.Well, if he/she does give you a sign, by all means believe. Seeing is believing, after all. Just make sure it's a proper, unequivocal sign and not your mind telling you what you want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Do you not think referring to religion and its teachings as fairy tales and qustioning the sanity and intelligence of religious people is a bit wrong? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 5, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 5, 2012 Limpid, I would like you to explain how you are agnostic and atheist at the same time. Okay, let's start by defining the terms. An atheist is someone who is literally "without god" (a- from the Greek meaning without and "theist" from the Greek "theos" meaning "god"). Being an atheist does not mean that you know there is no god, it means that for you the existence of god(s) has not been proven. An agnostic a- from the Greek meaning "without" and "gnostic" meaning to have knowledge of something. An agnostic believes that it is not possible to know whether god(s) exist. I do not believe the existence of god is proven, therefore I'm an atheist. I do not believe the existence of god can ever be proven, therefore I'm agnostic. I am an agnostic atheist. I'm also secularist and humanist (with a small "h"). Anyone who believes that people should have the right to believe in fairy tales should be a secularist. In the long term it's the only thing that will allow people to continue to believe that Harry Potter is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted September 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2012 Well people questionning the sanity of people who are religious. Religion and its teaching being referred to as fairy tales. People who are religious having their intelligence questioned. Some of the religious teachings from different religions being ridiculed. I am not going to disclose whether I am religious or not, but I think if you are an atheist, you can at least show a bit more respect to those who are religious and the religions themselves. Rather then view God as some made up fallacy. Sorry, I thought you said there were some shocking views in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Limpid, I would like you to explain how you are agnostic and atheist at the same time. Agnostic = Without knowledge Atheist = Without Belief (In Deities) Theist = Belief (In deities) Everyone is agnostic in regards to a God as nobody has actual knowledge of its existence or lack thereof. Believers and non believers alike are all agnostics in that regard. You either believe or you don't. The majority of people are atheists to some extent as well as there will be many other deities that they do not believe in . For example a Christian would probably not believe in Ganesh and would dismiss it as nonsense. Full on atheists just go one step further and dismiss all the possible Gods as nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Forgive me for interferring, but, and I'm not looking in any dictionary, I believe the true definition of an agnostic is someone who has no ideas as to the nature of the creator. In recent times it is used for someone who doubts the existence of a creator. I am an atheist. Indeed, I think all believers should be treated with the scorn and contempt they deserve... but respect? Get serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 5, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2012 I think the "fairy tales" thing needs to be said, a lot more frequently and a lot more forcibly, until the penny drops. If there's one thing that really makes my blood boil, it's Christians who scoff and sneer at "superstition". YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Why is it disrespectful? Why do religious people seem to be on some pedestal that we shouldn't question? Shouldn't we say what we believe and think, rather than skirt around it for fear of offending somebody that we genuinely believe to be wrong/stupid/indoctrinated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted September 5, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 5, 2012 Forgive me for interferring, but, and I'm not looking in any dictionary, I believe the true definition of an agnostic is someone who has no ideas as to the nature of the creator. I don't think you are interfering, that is just another way to word it. Everyone is agnostic, other than liars or the mentally ill who claim that their god has spoken to them. Gnosticism is a certain knowledge that god exists, Agnosticism is not having that knowledge. "a-gnosticism" = "without-gnosticism". Agnosticism is often misused by people to mean weak atheism. That is an incorrect use of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2012 Agnosticism is taught in schools foolishly as being sat on the fence in effect, although it has been adopted as a stance (even knowing it's true meaning) by fence sitters world wide. As for respecting the religious... I used to believe in that. I used to dislike Dawkins abrasive style because of it. No longer, they've all earned it, they deserve no respect for their beliefs, they fly in the face of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 As silly as religion is, there is the possibility that we're replacing worship of gods with worship of wealth, which is likely to be more destructive in the long run. In the good old days of universal fairy worship, people might expect to be judged by their piety and virtue. My personal theme of the day is that maybe we now admire wealth and nothing else. Very depressing to see spiraling inequality and environmental degradation on a grand scale. If there weren't such strong social motivation for accumulating wealth, I think we'd live on a far happier and less despoiled planet. So, to summarise, I've changed my mind. Jesus saves. Long live God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I've never seen it taught in schools as some 3rd position in between atheism and theism, it's usage has spread due to people misusing it because they don't want to be seen as atheist. I hate it when someone calls themselves agnostic, because what they really mean is "I'm atheist, but I'm too much of a pussy to want to tell people that I don't believe in God". People who answer "do you believe in God" with a "I don't know" need a slap. There is no "I don't know" you either believe, or you don't, and the default position is that you don't, so if you "don't know" you actually don't believe in God. Belief is a light switch, you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground where the light is a bit on and a bit off. The problem is mainly because of America, where the only thing worse than a devil worshipper is an atheist, so people do whatever they can to avoid labelling themselves as atheists, because as we all know, atheists can't have morals and will rape and murder your daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2012 I've never seen it taught in schools as some 3rd position in between atheism and theism, it's usage has spread due to people misusing it because they don't want to be seen as atheist. I hate it when someone calls themselves agnostic, because what they really mean is "I'm atheist, but I'm too much of a pussy to want to tell people that I don't believe in God". People who answer "do you believe in God" with a "I don't know" need a slap. There is no "I don't know" you either believe, or you don't, and the default position is that you don't, so if you "don't know" you actually don't believe in God. Belief is a light switch, you either have it or you don't, there's no middle ground where the light is a bit on and a bit off. The problem is mainly because of America, where the only thing worse than a devil worshipper is an atheist, so people do whatever they can to avoid labelling themselves as atheists, because as we all know, atheists can't have morals and will rape and murder your daughter. I was taught agnosticism as as a half way house amounting to 'I dunno', and I know it wasn't just my class or my school that did that. As for the second bit (as much as I roundly agree), paging Levi to the thread for a 1500 word article on why agnosticism is the only 'not stupid' choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 5, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2012 As silly as religion is, there is the possibility that we're replacing worship of gods with worship of wealth, which is likely to be more destructive in the long run. Non sequitur. As a society, we have ALWAYS been obsessed with wealth, whether we are religious or not. This may or may not be a bad thing, depending on your political stance - but either way, that is not the same as "worshipping" it. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever actually believed that wealth was an invisible supernatural being that needed to be appeased by singing songs to it, etc. Wealth does at least demonstrably exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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