All-Purpose Religion Thread

[TheDon]

It's someone that do some degree, doesn't accept that god(s) are real.

What if that someone in question is unsure about the existence of gods? (I don't mean unsure in the "I have no evidence for fairies" sense, I mean someone who's really on the fence) Based on your definition, he can't be an atheist.

If you're "on the fence" you don't believe in God, therefore, you are atheist.

It's really that simple.

There's either over the fence, or not over the fence, if you're on the fence, you're not over the fence, so you're an atheist.

There's no thought process needed to be atheist, you are atheist by default. When you start believing in God you become a theist. When you're unsure if there's a God, you're an atheist because, get this, you don't have a belief that there is one!

It's not rocket science people. You don't have to believe there isn't a God and that all religion is man made rubbish to be atheist, you just have to not have the belief that there is a God, be it not believing because you've dismissed the possibility, or not believing because you're not really sure. It's all atheism by virtue of NOT being theism.

[bickster]

Taking things in a slightly different direction, have you ever wondered why we are who we are? Why we were born into the family we were and why we were born in the land we were.

No why would you? Daddy's sperm reached mummy's egg. That's it.

Oh come on, there is more to it then that. That is too simplistic. Why were you Bickster born where you were. You could have been born in Africa, you don't choose what or where you were born into. When you think about it, it is extraordinary.

I really isn't complicated. I was born in West Bromwich because it was the closest hospital to where my parents lived in Great Barr, I could have been born in Africa if my parents lived and worked there but they didn't. My daughter was born in Liverpool because that's where I lived.

You're talking as if you're waiting in some sort of airborne factory and parents wait for the stork to deliver the baby they ordered nine months previously, so there's an element of luck as to which parents you get dropped down the chimney to.

Its not like ordering a sofa on the internet.

[bickster]

Taking things in a slightly different direction, have you ever wondered why we are who we are? Why we were born into the family we were and why we were born in the land we were.

No why would you? Daddy's sperm reached mummy's egg. That's it.

Oh come on, there is more to it then that. That is too simplistic. Why were you Bickster born where you were. You could have been born in Africa, you don't choose what or where you were born into. When you think about it, it is extraordinary.

I'd surmise that it's the same reason people win the lottery - chance. Ergo, nothing.

The only lottery is which sperm hits which egg

[TheDon]

Taking things in a slightly different direction, have you ever wondered why we are who we are? Why we were born into the family we were and why we were born in the land we were.

No why would you? Daddy's sperm reached mummy's egg. That's it.

Oh come on, there is more to it then that. That is too simplistic. Why were you Bickster born where you were. You could have been born in Africa, you don't choose what or where you were born into. When you think about it, it is extraordinary.

I'd surmise that it's the same reason people win the lottery - chance. Ergo, nothing.

The only lottery is which sperm hits which egg

It's not even a lottery, the sperm that hits the egg is the only sperm that ever could have hit the egg.

Although I'd also argue the lottery is fixed too. The numbers that come out are the only numbers that ever could come out

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Is that Robert Palmer ?

Yes it is.

On topic, there is no god. I thought about it, weighed up the possibilities, and decided it was all a bit silly. So there.

Move along.

[Voinjama]

Is that Robert Palmer ?

Yes it is.

On topic, there is no god. I thought about it, weighed up the possibilities, and decided it was all a bit silly. So there.

Move along.

What possibilities did you weigh up exactly?

[Voinjama]

And for those of you who are certain there is no god, have you had this debate with Muslims? They tend to be passionate about their religion and believe there is definitely a God (Allah). How did you try to reason with them with regards to this subject.

[mjmooney]

And for those of you who are certain there is no god, have you had this debate with Muslims? They tend to be passionate about their religion and believe there is definitely a God (Allah). How did you try to reason with them with regards to this subject.

I wish we could.

[Bazdavies79]

Atheist is a really clear definition though. It's someone that do some degree, doesn't accept that god(s) are real. That's it. You stated you are not sure that god exists, therefore you are an atheist. That's just a fact based on your statement. Why do you not accept that label? I could understand it if you have your own personal definition of atheist. Please can you describe what you think atheist means? You have capitalised it, does that imply you feel it is a proper noun?

I capitalised it because I'm rubbish at writing.

I'm not sure whether god exists, which would put me in a sub category of atheism or agnosticism. I lean towards the popular definition of words being the more valid so I call myself agnostic. But I don't care much for these labels as they don't do a very good job.

But lets not get away from my original point, that the view of one poster was that people are 'too pussy' to admit they're atheist if they call themselves agnostic. A bizarre claim.

[Sie]

And for those of you who are certain there is no god, have you had this debate with Muslims? They tend to be passionate about their religion and believe there is definitely a God (Allah). How did you try to reason with them with regards to this subject.

You don't. No matter their religion, passionate fundamentalists don't subscribe to reason or facts - only faith with the promise of reward. Blinkered, willful ignorance is espoused as a virtue in their religious texts.

[A.J.Rimmer]

And for those of you who are certain there is no god, have you had this debate with Muslims? They tend to be passionate about their religion and believe there is definitely a God (Allah). How did you try to reason with them with regards to this subject.

I take this as a serious question and I will give it a serious answer.

After decades of trying to reason with these morons, and I include all believers, I now tell them I have nothing but contempt for them, their nonexistent god and the rubbish in which they believe.

I tell muslims the same thing and usually end up saying they can stick their pig fecking Prophet Mohamed up their arse... at which they are generally quite surprised.

I truly believe I am performing a public service and that even if muslims have not been swayed by the force of logic, they should at least realise there are those who have no respect whatsoever for their moronic crap, but have still avoided the wrath of their murderous, slave trading, paedophile prophet, may pig shit be upon him.

It is disgusting the way society pays lip service to this filthy rubbish. We just might open a few eyes and all be a good deal better off if, like me, we finally start telling it like it really is.

[TheDon]

I'm not sure whether god exists, which would put me in a sub category of atheism or agnosticism. I lean towards the popular definition of words being the more valid so I call myself agnostic. But I don't care much for these labels as they don't do a very good job.

But lets not get away from my original point, that the view of one poster was that people are 'too pussy' to admit they're atheist if they call themselves agnostic. A bizarre claim.

It puts you into atheism, as you're not a theist.

You not being sure if God exists or not has nothing to do with being Agnosticism or not, that relies on if you have KNOWLEDGE over the existence of God.

Definitions of words being popular doesn't make them correct. Agnosticism is a distinctly separate concept from atheism and theism. If it wasn't there would be no need for the word, atheism already covers what you wrongly believe it means.

I'll stand by that people who go around telling the world they're agnostic do so because they are afraid of the atheist label. There's no other reason to, the word they use in it's place doesn't even mean what they think it does. It's been bastardised to try to cover something that atheism already covers merely so people don't have to use the dreaded atheist word.

[Bazdavies79]

Well open a book Don, do a bit of reading, you'll find things aren't so clear cut as they are in your narrow little mind.

[Chindie]

Depends if that book is a dictionary i guess...

[Bazdavies79]

..that's a good starting point.

[TheDon]

Well open a book Don, do a bit of reading, you'll find things aren't so clear cut as they are in your narrow little mind.

Au contraire, things often are so clear cut, and it's merely people who are afraid of the consequences of that clear cut-ness that seek to impart confusion.

Would you like to point out just why you don't feel you're an atheist, despite by your own admission not being a theist, and atheist simply being "not theist"?

And yes, it is that clear cut.

[limpid]

Well open a book Don, do a bit of reading, you'll find things aren't so clear cut as they are in your narrow little mind.

Can you recommend a book list? I'm sure those of us that have actually studied this would be interested.

Could you explain why you don't call yourself atheist when you have confirmed that you are? It certainly appears you have some particular distaste for the word itself. Your reason might be a good one, could you explain it? Otherwise it does indeed look like your scared to describe yourself as what you are.

[Bazdavies79]

Well open a book Don, do a bit of reading, you'll find things aren't so clear cut as they are in your narrow little mind.

Au contraire, things often are so clear cut, and it's merely people who are afraid of the consequences of that clear cut-ness that seek to impart confusion.

Would you like to point out just why you don't feel you're an atheist, despite by your own admission not being a theist, and atheist simply being "not theist"?

And yes, it is that clear cut.

But it isn't, it really isn't...

I'm agnostic, I believe the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable; therefore, I will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. 'Sitting on the fence' is a perfectly valid theological position to take, if Agnosticism is about knowledge and Theism and Atheism is about belief. Why would I concern myself with a belief in either of the the positive assertions 'there is a god' or 'there is not a god' without sufficient knowledge?

Now point me to the study about agnostics being atheists in denial.

[limpid]

Can you point me to the study that wibbles are fluff puffs in denial? If you make up your own definitions for atheist and agnostic, how is someone else going to have done a study into it?

[Bazdavies79]

These aren't my own definitions. My viewpoint is close to weak agnosticism.