jackbauer24 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is perhaps a lot more difficult than it should be. If we look at transfer expenditure, you may be surprised to find there isn't as much difference between Ellis and Lerner as I thought there'd be. Taking the numbers from transfermarkt.co.uk I roughly calculate: Lerner's six years as chairman, total expenditure £85m Then chose 94-01 (before Ellis started looking to sell), total expenditure £40m Considering the general rise in costs of players, income in sky money etc it could even be argued that Ellis spent nearly the same - surely that would be the case if tied to general revenue of the club but I have no facts to back that up. Or you could look at club stability (financially) and I think it's seen by all as a case of Ellis definitely winning that one. Revenue is up, but so are wages. And the club is now in a lot of debt. Or you could look at respecting history and tradition, Lerner wins that by a mile. Got to say that Ellis never employed someone the fans were against from the start and fired people quickly if the fans correctly saw what was happening (DOL). It's so close to call. Lerner lies more, Ellis was more deluded. Lerner bought this club at a bargain considering we weren't in debt and if you look at how much other clubs sell for. I can't vote. It's too close. But if I was absolutely forced to choose, I'd be swaying toward Ellis to be honest. And that pains me to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ellis has many more negatives than Lerner. Lerner has many more positives than Ellis. Ellis was a bad owner for a long period. (most of his tenure) Lerner has been a bad owner for half of his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2012 The one balance sheet which should matter the league table seems to have escaped attention.Judging a chairman on current league pos'n seems to me to be short sighted - lose 3 in a row and suddenly the chairman's a clown? win 3 and he's great? kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Graham Turner & Billy McNeill Getting thrashed 5 and 6 goals by the likes of Notts County, (post their best) Nott'm Forest, as well as Arsenal - just shoeing after shoeing. look here for the relegation season results - and it was much worse than the crap we're being served up with at the moment. Relegation season followed another rubbish season and it was inevitable we'd go. some of them results are absolute diabolical, 8 wins all season in a 22 team league and conceding so many goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Lerner all day long, but without Falkner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 The one balance sheet which should matter the league table seems to have escaped attention.Judging a chairman on current league pos'n seems to me to be short sighted - lose 3 in a row and suddenly the chairman's a clown? win 3 and he's great? kind of thing. Results and league position have been dreadful since the start of last season though. We've hardly been out of the bottom half of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The one balance sheet which should matter the league table seems to have escaped attention.Judging a chairman on current league pos'n seems to me to be short sighted - lose 3 in a row and suddenly the chairman's a clown? win 3 and he's great? kind of thing. Results and league position have been dreadful since the start of last season though. We've hardly been out of the bottom half of the table. Not sure we can really blame Lerner for last season. We still had all our best players except Milner but had £30m of investment in January at the drop of a hat. Houllier really was **** awful but that's largely in hindsight isn't it. Lerner had a real go at 4th spot for 3 years with O'Neill but it just wasn't to be. Lerner isn't rich enough to fork out £30m net a season, especially when there's no guarantee it would be enough to get Champs League football. IMO he's done the right thing in cutting back but I think he could have found someone a bit better than McLeish to do it. Anyway before I blabber on too much, Lerner all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 For all of Randy and Cos so called nous they failed to make really proper inroads into increase expenditure. It was great getting Nike to make our kit. We got a paltry £1.5 million per season for this. It was great that we sponsored Acorns, but the reality was that we couldn’t get a really good sponsor. It was great we have nice mosaics, etc, but maybe these great business men could have actually clinched some killer deals... I take it you are talking about increasing revenue? Since Randy has taken over he has nearly doubled our other revenue streams and by that I mean anything that is not TV money. So whilst we may have done even better with examples you made its not like we havent been increasing the revenue by a large amount. Yes they have increased revenues, but they have failed to achieve as much as we believed they could. Now part of that might be down to Villa really aren’t that big of a draw. Or perhaps Lerner & Co aren’t as good as we believed. I am not denying that MON was given a free hand and spunked a load of cash, but at the same time I think the club hasn’t been that great at making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The one balance sheet which should matter the league table seems to have escaped attention.Judging a chairman on current league pos'n seems to me to be short sighted - lose 3 in a row and suddenly the chairman's a clown? win 3 and he's great? kind of thing. Come on Pete we have been on a long slippery slope for the last two season. I ve always argued that anyone at a club deserves time when they make more right rather than wrong decisions. If the ultimate judge is the league table, then we have been going backward fast. That Lerner & Faulkner managed to pay off MON, Houllier & Co. and SHA to appoint McLeish, sold our best players, signed Ireland, etc, etc gives a pretty long charge sheet. Randy came in with a wave of optimism, but its now become a deluge of bad news. We have a lack of leadership at the club, which has cost us pride, money and hope. Its not much to ask, but you would have thought someone would have got a grip. We are now in a period of inaction and suspended animation. Where’s the hope that we had when I took George to his first game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I am not denying that MON was given a free hand and spunked a load of cash, but at the same time I think the club hasn’t been that great at making it. I agree. No doubt O'Neill wasted a few quid but an 80 mill net spend or 60 mill if you include the 20 mill we brought in a week after he left for Milner ( 27 mill if you include Ireland ) wasn't too bad to take a club that had finished 16th to one that finished 6th with in two seasons and consolidated that position by finishing 6th twice more. During those 6th place finishes we had the 8th, 6th and 6th highest wage bill. Given who we were competing against - established clubs in Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool an emerging Tottenham and then Man City who blew everyone out the water did Randy and co really expect, given where they found us and who we were competing against, more for an 80 mill net spend and the 6th highest wage bill. You either get your income up to a level that it is sustainable or you are not stupid enough to allow it to get to a level that you can't sustain in the first place. Either way Randy has **** up big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If Ellis was still chairman, Huddersfield would be a big game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Lerner was the right man to take over at the time, but things have changed so quickly, he has suddenly become a hindrance to the advancement of the club. It's a mixed bag for sure, but I'd still take Lerner, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted February 15, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2012 I wonder how the vote would have gone had the choice been Ellis, Lerner or "A Billionaire who has cash to Spend" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockport_Villain Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Some people have short memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think most things this season are similar to the last season under doug. The fact randy has gone full circle after spending a lot of money shows how poor an owner he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 At this point in time 6 votes to 28 in favour of Lerner. It hints at what I suspect, the same few posters are having a go at Lerner all the time, just completely spamming the boards. I think most people are reasonable and know there are areas to improve, but Lerner is not a bad owner. Most people realise a rich sheikh is a pipe dream and the club must be run sustainably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 On balance, I'd say Ellis ... but only just, from the point of view he appreciated a lot more about football realities - wearing his-pre-PLC hat that is. My vote is for Ellis pre-1997. I think a third "little difference" option might have been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I wonder how the vote would have gone had the choice been Ellis, Lerner or "A Billionaire who has cash to Spend" Very good! Yes, I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 At this point in time 6 votes to 28 in favour of Lerner. It hints at what I suspect, the same few posters are having a go at Lerner all the time, just completely spamming the boards. I think most people are reasonable and know there are areas to improve, but Lerner is not a bad owner. Most people realise a rich sheikh is a pipe dream and the club must be run sustainably. Everybody was being reasonable until you showed up. Who at all has mentioned sheikhs? And it's only your opinion that Lerner isn't a bad owner. Just about everything he's done in the past two and a bit years points to the fact that he is. Huge losses, woeful managerial choices, getting his henchmen to lie to the fans, selling the best players, not replacing them, paying millions in compensation for said woeful managers. At the end of the day, he owns two sports teams on two different continents, both of whom are doing badly, and the common denominator is Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amed Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I knew what where we were with Ellis.... have no clue at the moment! He was a proud man and ultimately wanted Villa to do well and made changes/decisions when that was not happening. Our current owner can't even be bothered to attend games anymore, shown no interest in over 2 years and appointed the worst manager Villa have had in over 20 years! Easy- Ellis for me.... and looking at actual spends, selling of our best players etc Lerner does not stack up as greatly as most people presume compared to Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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