Big_John_10 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Our record for getting something out of a game once going behind was terrible and if i remember correctly our record of getting 3 pointe after taking the lead in a game was also terrible. So we couldn't hold on to a lead or get ourselves back into a game when going behind and people still defend him. We went into the 37th game of the season still not 100% safe and managed two fantastic results when houllier physically couldn't be around the first team. Our defensive record was shocking and while bent scored goals last season i think its a bit of blind faith to suggest houllier would have dealt with losing downing and young and had him scoring just as many this year. Only an owner as poor as lerner could hire someone as bad as houllier and then replace them with mcleish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Our record for getting something out of a game once going behind was terrible and if i remember correctly our record of getting 3 pointe after taking the lead in a game was also terrible. So we couldn't hold on to a lead or get ourselves back into a game when going behind and people still defend him. We went into the 37th game of the season still not 100% safe and managed two fantastic results when houllier physically couldn't be around the first team. Our defensive record was shocking and while bent scored goals last season i think its a bit of blind faith to suggest houllier would have dealt with losing downing and young and had him scoring just as many this year. Only an owner as poor as lerner could hire someone as bad as houllier and then replace them with mcleish.Yet despite all this, he'll probably still have done a better job than McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 after Bent signed, Houllier games saw him pick up 18 points from 11 games (5 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses). I think it's fair to say, had he still been fit, we could have ended the season just as strong if not stronger than in those last 5 games. Well. 18 points from 11 games is 1.6 points per game and 8 points from 5 games (which is what GMac got) is...1.6 points per game so I think we did finish just as strongly without him. Recent manager's performances: 2009/10 - MON Pl38 W17 D11 L8 Pts64 PPG=1.7 2010/11 _ KMac Pl5 W2 D1 L2 Pts 7 PPG=1.4 GH Pl28 W8 D9 L11 Pts 33 PPG=1.2 GMac Pl5 W2 D2 L1 Pts8 PPG=1.6 2011/2 - AMc Pl30 W7 D12 L11 Pts33 PPG=1.1 Well done McLeish on being marginally even more shite than Houllier was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 We went into the 37th game of the season still not 100% safe and managed two fantastic results when houllier physically couldn't be around the first team. Our defensive record was shocking and while bent scored goals last season i think its a bit of blind faith to suggest houllier would have dealt with losing downing and young and had him scoring just as many this year. Not suggesting we had a good season at all but the quote I highlight in bold, it could have easily been the other way round. After back to back wins to beat Newcastle 1-0 and West Ham 2-1, we basically moved safe at that point but then we took just 2 points out of 3 games from Stoke/Wigan/WBA....before as you say 2 great results but do not make it out as if we wouldn't of stayed up comfortably if it weren't for Gary Mac because had GH not gone down ill, who's to say we wouldn't have beat the likes of Stoke/Wigan at home and WBA away and moved mathetmically safe before the 37th game. Oh and the second one about Bent, I agree that Bent would score less than last year but he has took penalties this year also, so I do believe he'd have him 4-5 more goals. I do think Houllier was far more effective in getting the best out of attacking players, I mean he even somehow managed to make Heskey look useful for a period of time, give him credit there. Oh and agree the defence was poor but I do think that would have been sorted out along with his own players to at least a respectable level. I think we'd be about 7th/8th about now under Houllier, my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I mean he even somehow managed to make Heskey look useful for a period of time, give him credit there. I think Heskey should've left a long time ago but I'll always be thankful for that winner at Wolves Like a **** salmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Indeed he was - hindsight is a wonderful thing Everyone is intelligent in hindsight - even Lerner and Faulkner Are you sure!!! :shock: I think so, I believe that Houllier would have been doing ok now... And that his intentions were good, and he was evidently correct in regards to some players. Not to mention that we could have signed some damn awesome players. Wasn't Cabaye a done deal?? Yea - hindsight is brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 my opinion though It's fair enough. I just didn't see much evideence to suggest houllier was the right man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think we would have had a good season under houllier and mac this year. the defence would have been better as there would have been no Hutton,Collins,dunne or warnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Houllier had us playing passing football and by the end it looked like we might have a turned a corner, but he did a hell of lot damage alienating senior players so it is almost impossible to know what would have happened if he had stayed, he tried to do too much too soon and i've never known a manager have such a negative impact on a squad, even if technically and tactically he was better than McCleish. When we had Keane, Ireland and Zoggy all playing together you could briefly see what Eck was trying to do and there was a faint glimmer of hope..... and when Hutton started to play well - and Cuellar came back into the side - it actually looked like things might improve. The luck Eck has had has been truly dire, that doesn't change the times when he has thrown together a packed midfield of players who don't know what they are doing or negative and inept tactics that have cost us games before we've kicked a ball. He has looked utterly clueless and blamed everyone but his self. My worry is who the hell do we have that can get us out of this mess? Gabby and Ireland are about all we have left half decent in terms of experience and class, the former hasn't scored in a long time though. Collins has been better- but without Cuellar he is vulnerable and Warnock is a liability. Alby was great Sat but has been poor for a long time, he should still start though ahead of Bannan or any other youngster playing out of position. Given doesn't command his area at all or come for crosses and this is costing us goals whether people want to ignore that because he is a great shot stopper or not! Bannan is either not that good or handled poorly, i can't decide which, he should play behind the striker but with Ireland there that is unlikely. We are pinning too much on Weimann and Gardener - they can't perform miracles and Herd is average at best. Lichaj i like a lot - but he is still inexperienced at this level. Baker? Oh dear - i always think he looks like a good defender and then he makes costly errors. I don't know when Hutton is back - Cuellar has an out side chance of coming back against Pool but that aside we will end up with a load of youngsters against a team who have been poor of late but will no doubt find their form against a team who couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag. So how the hell we gonna get out of this mess - play Makoun - oh wait we can't, Jenas? Whoops! How bout stick Carruthers on one of the wings??? It's a lot to ask of the kid, then again i'm sure Eck will bring on Heskey instead. Yep we're **** alright! Expect us to run around like headless chickens against Liverpool with no width or penetration - but hey we'll work hard but then give Carroll and Downing gold plated piss easy goals - that make the headlines claim the next day that both players are on the up - all we ever do is make out of form shit players look good and teams look amazing. we have to have a titanic change in luck for us to get any points in the remaining games, remember even with Bent, Zog, Dunne, etc we were awful most of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Atleast McLeish has sorted the set piece situations guys.. oh wait. Pathetic that till this day he hasn't sorted it out.. he even had pre season to work on it. Our set piece defending has been very good with Cuellar and Collins in the team and it looked like we had turned a corner on that account. Baker simply wasn't up to the task on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Baker had a decent bloody game Stop jumping down the guys throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Everyone is talking about how bad we are with McGutless as manager ( and I agree wholehartedly ) but there is another angle to this relegation discussion.The way we have played this season,do we really deserve to be in the PL ? I mean supporters of other teams could just as easily ask, why is a team like Aston Villa in the Pl when there are better teams around ?! Put another way: We could not beat Wigan or Blackburn when they were 20th and 19th.Liverpool are on a bad run,BUT Wigan beat them at Anfield with Reiner in goal, can we do the same ( without Reiner in goal ) I hope so but I can"t see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Don't live in England so Chelsea was my third game this season. I was really struck by the change in atmosphere after Collins scored. 75 mins of resignation followed by 15 mins of pulsating passion. Mostly because a player came on who ran at the Chelsea defenders. If we attack the only game we might get nothing out of is Man U. If we attack at Villa Park it will be rocking and we will be nowhere near relegation. I'd keep Lichaj in the team for his long throws, they create chances. With the games remaining if we go down it will be because we are not good enough, not because of the players or the fans but the negative approach of the manager. If we go down the owners of the club will have to bear responsibility for employing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Aston Villa and Wolves are the only clubs not fighting. Teams who do not fight deserve to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Aston Villa and Wolves are the only clubs not fighting. Teams who do not fight deserve to go down. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Can everyone if they have time go back and read the first 3 pages of this topic. The comments are unbelievable. Topic starter gets dogs abuse for starting this thread and supposedly being negative. Looks like he was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Can everyone if they have time go back and read the first 3 pages of this topic. The comments are unbelievable. Topic starter gets dogs abuse for starting this thread and supposedly being negative. Looks like he was right. Shows you just how much things have changed in such a short time...Does'nt it :?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2012 I think the last 3 pages proves he was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Everything at the club smacks as being mid table, from the board to the players. The only thing that doesn't is the manager who smacks as lower mid table at best. Considering he is the one controlling the playing side, that is a huge worry. Too good to go down? Not by a long shot. Just looking back at my quote, I still hold this opinion, note my appraisal of Mcleish is lower mid table at best ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Can everyone if they have time go back and read the first 3 pages of this topic. The comments are unbelievable. Topic starter gets dogs abuse for starting this thread and supposedly being negative. Looks like he was right. Just done exactly that, makes for some funny reading in a strange sort of way . I'd love to requote some of those in the first couple of pages but its not fair on the posters. For what its worth, i was one who was saying would not go done...im so sure anymore. We really are piss poor arent we? :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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