markavfc40 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I can't really knock the way McLeish has been sending us out to play over the last couple of months. From the Arsenal home game onwards our attitude has been very positive. Last night there is no doubt we deserved to win and win comfortably by 4 or 5 goals. Its individual **** ups that are costing us. Dunne, Hutton and Bent against Arsenal, Warnock against Swansea and last night and Albrighton against Everton immediately spring to mind in recent games but you dig a little deeper and they have been happening all season. I'm not sure how as a manager you legislate for that though. You can drop the players I guess but you don't want to be replacing them with inferior quality and as things stand I'd say you'd always pick 4 from 5 of Hutton, Warnock, Collins, Dunne and Cuellar to play at the back. Enda Stevens isn't a viable option for me as he has never played above a level the equivalent of our third or fourth tier and will need time, Lichaj has been injured and is arguably no better than those playing. McLeish did actually drop Warnock and his replacement Clark was found to be wanting. Defence certainly needs an over all come the end of the season and I think it will be with Cuellar and Warnock off and possibly Collins. On a positive for McLeish he has done what his predecessor couldn't do and is getting the best out of Ireland, Keane has already proved to be a good move, Petrov has been excellent, Gabby has put some great shifts in and Darren Bent has over the last few games been finding the back of the net, looks hungry and is getting chances. Hopefully NZogbia will take heart from his performance last night and kick on. Things are far from rosy and the stats are poor with only 6 wins in 23 and half a dozen games since we won at home. It is however currently still an improvement on this time last season and in terms of how we are playing, certainly in our attacking play, we are heading in the right direction. I started from a low expectation level with McLeish and still don't expect too much from him but in terms of how we have been playing over the last couple of months its better than I expected. He is here for at least the short - medium term so lets all hope that the recent improvement in our play continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Great post Mark! Exactly where I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yes... We only managed to draw last nights game because of the ref not giving us a handball decision It had nothing to do with us going 2 - 0 down within 20 mins due to inept defending and poor team selection all of which were McLeish's fault He has twaddled on since he joined the club about how sorting out the defence was a priority almost three thirds of the season gone and we look as brittle as ever Perhaps we need to go 2 - 0 down in every game for the team to put out a performance like that funny enough i see quite a few teams in the premier league performing like that from the opening whistle without the need of a hefty goal deficit. Not good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 inept defending and poor team selection all of which were McLeish's fault Stopped reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyVillain Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This stat of 6 wins in 23 followed by the comment that any other manager would of been sacked. Martin Jol a manager that so many on here wanted both before GH and AMc has a very similar, in fact worse record and for a team that finished above us last season. I wonder if he is getting the same abuse? Maybe we are not as bad off as some think. Not great, but its not dooms day. UTV Jol is actually coming in for a lot of flak. But I agree with your general point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This stat of 6 wins in 23 followed by the comment that any other manager would of been sacked. Martin Jol a manager that so many on here wanted both before GH and AMc has a very similar, in fact worse record and for a team that finished above us last season. I wonder if he is getting the same abuse? Maybe we are not as bad off as some think. Not great, but its not dooms day. UTV Jol is actually coming in for a lot of flak. But I agree with your general point. Bolton have won the same amount of games as us, but we are 8 points ahead of them... It's not about win ratio it's points per game ratio which matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 inept defending and poor team selection all of which were McLeish's fault Stopped reading Me too...it is nonsensical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So McLeish's inability to coach his side how to defend or mark players is not his fault and did not cost us goals last night Or Failing to drop Warnock after piss poor performances week in week out is not his fault either and did not cost us goals last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caw2510 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Or Failing to drop Warnock after piss poor performances week in week out is not his fault either and did not cost us goals last night who is he meant to play lihaj is not fit, stevens is shit and clark was terrible against kightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hev Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 A Villa fan on Talk Sport either Monday or Tuesday tweeted that Blackburn fans should stop moaning as they don't know how lucky they are with Steve Kean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So McLeish's inability to coach his side how to defend or mark players is not his fault and did not cost us goals last night its continual individual errors. there's not much you can do about that. it's a sign that the players just arent up to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcohen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Warnock was dropped, and we were 2-1 down to Wolves. So he put him back on and we won 3-2. Not lal down to Warnock, but he certinaly did a better job there than Clark. Agreed, Warnock is poor and needs to be replaced, but right now, we dont have anyone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 stevens is shit ill wager youve never even see the guy play ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caw2510 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 ill wager youve never even see the guy play ffs he played for shamrock who are probably about as good as a league 2 team. theres a very good chance that he will not be the next ashley cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think people were prepared to give Houllier a chance, he lost the good will of the fans though through a combination of poor results and even worse PR. As for McLeish while there are some who were not prepared to give him a chance I think the vast majority were and probably still are prepared to do so. Just because someone points out the impact of O'Neill on Sunderland and the fact he has won more games in his short stint in time that McLeish has won since the start of the season doesn't mean they are obsessed. I think it just highlights the fact that McLeish really isn't doing a particularly good job. Anyway enough on O'Neill. I'm really baffled why people presume that McLeish will sort the defence out in the summer, he has made little impact on the defence this season. The only defender he has signed has been poor and certainly not improved that aspect of the team, I'd also argue that buying a RB was given our limited resources a mistake as I said at the time he should have signed a LB. I know he signed Enda Stevens but I don't think we will see him in the team this season. There is a myth that McLeish built a great defence at Birmingham but it simply isn't true, Dann and Johnson are average PL players who in Foster and Hart had a good and then great keeper behind them. In front of them they had an entire team built from the front to the back to defend and be defensive, they often played 4-5-1 even at home. It wasn't a great defence it was a defensive team. McLeish has attempted to employ the same tactics here, he has tried to use his negative men behind the ball tactics and defenders in midfield most noteably away at Spurs and it hasn't worked. It hasn't worked in terms of results and it certainly hasn't worked in terms of the fans and so in recent weeks we've seen a bit of a change in this approach and we've become more of an attacking threat but the defence has become more exposed and in term more shambolic. I've seen nothing from McLeish to suggest that he will build a great defence here or that he is particulary great at coaching defenders because I can't see any improvement in any of them. On the basis of the signing of Hutton I'm not particularly confident in his ability to sign good defenders either. It also concerns me that our entire attacking threat in recent games is seemingly based around a player that will be back of to the US in 3 weeks. I didn't think signing Keane was a good move in part because I thought he was past it which I was wrong about but also in part because I don't think in the long term it will help us over the remainder of the season. I agree with those who say we played with lots of attacking threat in the second half but we still got a rather shite result against one of the worst teams on their travels. We still failed to win at home for the 6th game in a row and we've Man City up next at Villa Park, we still can't defend and we aren't improving as a side. At the moment I just can't share the optimism some feel about McLeish's tenure because I just can't see any basis for it. His record of 6 wins in 23 is simply terrible. Great post TrentVilla To add to your comment about Am sorting out the defence; he has also left a fit Cuellar on the bench for a large part of the season when the defence has looked poor. Vamos commented that we had 70% possession and 23 shots. That's great as long as you make it count and get more than a point at home against the poorest of last seasons promoted teams. Let's see how we get on in our next home match! I thought we did play much better in the second half last night and even during the half-time break I was predicting we would come out and "do an Arsenal" on them and beat QPR 3-2. Like someone said, it could have been 6-2 and it wouldn't have flattered us. Fact is though, we gifted 2 goals through shocking defending and had to fight back just to get a draw at home. Our trouble has been the same all season - we have not put together 2 decent halves of football in any game. We might have one good half and one bad. We might have 2 bad halves. But, never have we had 2 good halves where we have looked comfortable and played decent football. I am not against AM. I would love him to prove to me through decent football and team selection that he is the right man for us. We should be up for it from kick-off in the first half, not have to wait until we are 2 goals down and the fans are booing them to get some sort of effort and quality from them. It is up to the manager and coaches to get this trained into them and stamp their authority on the team. It worked int he second half yesterday, let's see it for 90+ minutes at Newcastle on Sunday, please Alex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 ill wager youve never even see the guy play ffs he played for shamrock who are probably about as good as a league 2 team. theres a very good chance that he will not be the next ashley cole and roy keane played for cobh, and paul mcgrath played for st. pats what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So McLeish's inability to coach his side how to defend or mark players is not his fault and did not cost us goals last night Or Failing to drop Warnock after piss poor performances week in week out is not his fault either and did not cost us goals last night he is unfortunately our best LB at the moment. Clark can't go there and our young lad is only just back from injury. Cuellar should be replacing inept ginger in defence and Hutton is all we have RB at the moment. in regards to marking if you mean the overall setup then Yes. If you mean trying to cut out idiotic mistakes then no. also the backroom coaches do a lot of work as well. It's not like secondary school PE where you have one teacher showing you everything. also our most experienced players are the back 4 (apart from Hutton), so they really should know most of it already. It's like a bowling coach trying to show Glen McGrath or Harmisson what to do. They can offer guidance and help them focus on things but to tell them "this is how you bowl a good line and length", that's pointless. They'd do that anyway when they are in form. We need to basically offer: a decent defensive mid in front of them to reduce their workload to last and focus 90 minutes. Classic example of work load was yesterday. Second half QPR just hoof it out to Cuellar or Dunne, they pass it to someone and sit back for another 90 seconds. Also (I have said this before) Ledley King has said the main reason he has been kept fit and able to play so many matches is having Parker in front of him because he has a lot less running and tackling to do. His body and mind are under less stress. So YES we do need to sort out defence, but getting a new back 4 won't fix it. Gettind a really good DM will though and replacing Warnock and Hutton. I think Dunne and Cuellar can certainly do a great job if they aren't peppered like Arsenal did to us for an entire half. No defender can do that every game they'd conceed or burn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djamfisher Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Or Failing to drop Warnock after piss poor performances week in week out is not his fault either and did not cost us goals last night who is he meant to play lihaj is not fit, stevens is shit and clark was terrible against kightly So why did Mcleish buy Stevens then, that's 2 shit FB's he's bought now. 2 for 2 ain;t bad. Are you saying Mcleish can't pick a player. He could try Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caw2510 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 caw2510 wrote: Quote: ill wager youve never even see the guy play ffs he played for shamrock who are probably about as good as a league 2 team. theres a very good chance that he will not be the next ashley cole and roy keane played for cobh, and paul mcgrath played for st. pats what's your point? game has changed a lot since then, there is not many players these days that come from a very poor league and are a success the gap in quality is too big. its hard enough for somebody coming from the championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 game has changed a lot since then, there is not many players these days that come from a very poor league and are a success the gap in quality is too big. its hard enough for somebody coming from the championship kevin doyle played for cork and pats stephen ward played for bohs seamus coleman played for sligo keith fahey played for drogheda and pats wes hoolahan played for shels off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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