keefa3011 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 But he hasn't done as well there as Steve Bruce did ? Didn't Steve Bruce have more cash to splash? Tbh I think Martinez has a long term point of view, and that's what makes me want him at Villa. Look at what he started at Swansea. Okay, you have to give credit to the board there as they have stuck to the principles as well, but Martinez was a key component in how they're doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2012 What this club needs now is an enema, and in the Gentleman's opinion, ... the man most adept at holding that pipe would be Señor Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIVillan Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I think I read somewhere (maybe here) that Martinez plans as if he is going to be at the club for 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 But he hasn't done as well there as Steve Bruce did ? Didn't Steve Bruce have more cash to splash? Tbh I think Martinez has a long term point of view, and that's what makes me want him at Villa. Look at what he started at Swansea. Okay, you have to give credit to the board there as they have stuck to the principles as well, but Martinez was a key component in how they're doing now. I don't know if bruce did have more cash. But then we are already making excuses. Cash or not Steve Bruce was a more succesful Wigan than Martinez. ....I also seem to remember Dave Whelan summoning Martinez to explain his sides poor performances ....not good. I really think he would be another Houllier. Although i think his short price with the bookies is justified - it probably will be him or Gus Poyet IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 But he hasn't done as well there as Steve Bruce did ? Kind of difficult to compare the two, with that team. Two entirely different approaches to the game, and one could say Bruce's style suits Wigan better than Martinez. We all saw what happened with Bruce at Sunderland, even with a good budget, solid players like Bent and his defensive footballing approach. They played like Wigan almost, trying to not lose games just like McLeish does. Now, at Wigan that is acceptable as long as they don't go down, there are virtually no demands in terms of goals scored and attacking approach. If they stay up that is great, for the owner and for the fans. Tight defensive unit, starting with the striker all the way down to their defenders. All in all, it is limited what you can do with limited players. Martinez has probably done what he can do in terms of playing a little bit more attractive, not necessarily scoring freely, but the sentiment towards him compared to Bruce is there for all to see. I would dare to say that under normal circumstances, managers like Wenger and Ferguson wouldn't do much better than 13-15th with Wigan. Firstly, they would of course never manage such a side and secondly, given the same squad, what else is there to do? Wigan have taken a few huge scalps over the last seasons which is incredibly astute. I just think that Bruce is Bruce, you know exactly what you will get. Same goes for McLeish really, and that is why nobody wants them as their manager. Martinez has got other tricks up his sleeve, and with better tools he could perform much better. I mean, how can he show much better when he hasn't had the chance to unfold his managerial skills with better players and waster squads? General Krulak said the same (drivel) about McLeish, but 99% of us knew that was not going to happen. We have followed this game since we were kids and he probably refers to football as soccer still, and the outcome has been crystal clear. With Martinez however, I am pretty sure everyone can agree that it would be foolish to stereotype him just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houllierout Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Pretty good article from Nursey http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/the-aston-villa-column-why-big-changes-826799#comments its one of the worst PR spin articles ive ever seen, blatantly Plied with drink at a PR golf day to sell the club tickets, how people fall for it is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 But he hasn't done as well there as Steve Bruce did ? If the gents memory serves him correctly, Bruce was only there for 1 and half seasons. Taking over from 'bigger eyes on a potato' Chris Hutchings half way through the 07/08 season. Although he did indeed oversee similar fortunes maybe (clutches at straws) the premier league was less competitive back then. Granted Bruce is an apt transfer player generator but all in all, Bruce has a face like a fist with zero style and Martinez is a gent. Previous Gentleman points made are still valid, Martinez for the job when McLeish shuffles out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Survival is rarely more shameful. A goal up, at home and against ten men, Aston Villa ended up clinging on for the draw that nudged them over the finishing line. Officially the worst season at home in their 124-league history brought a mere four victories and concluded with the Villa Park faithful adapting the lyrics of long-time favourite chant "Paul McGrath, My Lord" to "Sack McLeish, My Lord". And then, just to add to the sense of irritation, Alex McLeish said that he expects to remain in charge in next season. That would be a recipe for mediocrity. It is not merely the fact that Villa have a solitary victory in their last 15 games that ought to render his position untenable. It is certainly not the oft-mentioned reality that he used to manage Birmingham, even if that hardly helps his case. It is the combination of his record, his footballing ethos and Villa's unacceptably bad season. Unflattering statistics abound, but consider this one: Steve Kean, perhaps the most hated manager in recent history, has won 22% of his Premier League games. In the last two seasons, McLeish has won only 20% of his, despite having superior players for much of that time. Admittedly, the latter has an unparalleled commitment to drawing football - while only 15 of 75 matches have ended positively, a further 32 have finished level - but parity is not the purpose of football. Stalemates should never be the objective, but Villa's most common scoreline this season is 0-0. Much as McLeish objects to the suggestions he is defensive, the numbers tell their own tale. In his last 113 league games, whether with Birmingham or Villa, his sides have scored 112 goals. Such a large sample size cannot be explained by misfortune or a few missed chances, especially when Villa have had the second fewest number of shots on target in the Premier League. Football is invariably about a balance between attack and defence, but a philosophy is flawed when it is tilted too far in one direction, as McLeish's is. There is only one justification for such negativity and that is success. Villa have had none to enjoy. If supporters crave excitement and results, the Villa public have had neither. Deprived of entertainment, they have occupied themselves by chanting against the manager. At times, there has been little else to do. Villa have showed a desperate lack of ambition in games - Tottenham away, Liverpool and Manchester United at home, even the trip to then-bottom Wigan - when it has appeared they rarely even attempted to score. Indeed, examine the progressive players in McLeish's squad and none has benefited from his regime. Certainly not Charles N'Zogbia - inspirational for Wigan last year, and insipid for Villa this - or Darren Bent, a predator starved or service. Not Marc Albrighton, who has regressed after his encouraging debut year last season, nor Barry Bannan, of whom the same could be said. Certainly not Gabriel Agbonlahor, whose last league goal was in November, or Emile Heskey, whose only strike came in August. Even Stephen Ireland, bemusingly voted the fans' player of the year when Shay Given was perhaps the only plausible candidate, has been nowhere near his peak. While McLeish has, albeit unwittingly, reinvigorated the rebellious fans, he has drained the life out of the team as an attacking force. While the summer sales of Ashley Young and Stewart Downing have been cited in his defence, there is still the feeling that this should be a top-ten squad - indeed, do Fulham, who have had the added complication of a Europa League run, and West Brom have better players? While Villa have had injuries, so have others and, in any case, they have cover. They are fortunate to have one of the finest crops of emerging players in the country, yet McLeish's natural conservatism means he is unlikely to promote young players and they tend to be demoted when more senior figures are available. It is a reason to doubt whether next season will be any better. The club's financial losses mean an organic method is imperative. Villa require a manager who can integrate young talents like Albrighton, Bannan, Ciaran Clark, Gary Gardner, Nathan Baker and Andreas Weimann. With gates down, they need a leader who can restore optimism among the support. With the club having traded top six for bottom six in the space of two years, they long for anything remotely resembling their recent past. Nothing about McLeish suggests he is the man to instigate a revival. His personal slump has lasted two league seasons, while his popularity ratings are unlikely to improve. He has passed the point of no return in his relationship with the Villa supporters and, as an essentially pragmatic man, he should recognise as much. Yet McLeish's attitude has long suggested self-preservation is his aim. In one respect, that is understandable - he has become another Gary Megson, a manager no fan wants in charge of his or her club, and another chance may not present itself - but in another it is depressing. While both halves of the Second City might unite in disagreeing with this, he is an honourable man in many ways, possessing a fundamental sense of decency - the sort of upstanding individual Randy Lerner tends to appoint. Now, rather than hanging on for a compensation package, thus becoming the third manager the American owner has had to pay off in short succession, or allowing a dismal situation to become worse, the decent thing is to walk away. Because this has been Villa's poorest season for a quarter of a century, worse even than the dark days under David O'Leary, Graham Taylor and Jozef Venglos. They have survived, just, but McLeish should not. http://tinyurl.com/cyxrdop Brilliant write up by ESPN. Hallelujah!! The penny has finally bloody dropped!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Pretty good article from Nursey http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/the-aston-villa-column-why-big-changes-826799#comments Begging letter for an increase in ST sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yep seems that way.. they know ST will plummet next season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hallelujah!! The penny has finally bloody dropped!!!Soccernet has always been a quality site. Their articles are always worth reading. In fact, because of the quality of their PL articles, I've often just read foreign ones to edumacate myself knowing they'll be well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Absolutely terrible article from Nursey. It might as well have been written by Faulkner. edit - spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I also seem to remember Dave Whelan summoning Martinez to explain his sides poor performances ....not good. after which they won 4 games out of 5 beating Man U , Arsenal & Newcastle along the way must have been one heck of a summons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A team with Bannan, Albrighton, Weiman, Baker, Clark in - will get relegated - no matter who the manager. The results this season (and to an extent last) prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A team with Bannan, Albrighton, Weiman, Baker, Clark in - will get relegated - no matter who the manager. The results this season (and to an extent last) prove that.They're not our only players though. Most of them weren't starting games when we had a fully fit squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A team with Bannan, Albrighton, Weiman, Baker, Clark in - will get relegated - no matter who the manager. The results this season (and to an extent last) prove that. 100% Agree. Whilst I think he is an utterly useless manager and detest his style of football, the fact that he has to use these players week in week out is more Lerner's fault than Mcleish's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A team with Bannan, Albrighton, Weiman, Baker, Clark in - will get relegated - no matter who the manager. The results this season (and to an extent last) prove that. 100% Agree. Whilst I think he is an utterly useless manager and detest his style of football, the fact that he has to use these players week in week out is more Lerner's fault than Mcleish's. The sad thing is that if we are not careful we will kill the careers of some very promising youngsters, imagine if they had been at a proper club like Man Utd or similar, few loans out to teams to get some experience and gradually slot them into the team using tried and tested methods. The Villa = There you go, go and get a draw, get booed off, play every week, be very lucky to know what a 1st team win feels like, get shipped out eventually to cut wage, play with Heskey and discuss his 70k a week and so on ..... Hmmmm THe villa sounds so very attractive, what a youth setup that is. I might open a Brazillian Cafe by Bodymoor Heath as we wil just get one Brazillian wonder kid after another if McMong stays. The intergration method is fantastic. Throw em in, if they die, they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 That Nursey piece is embarrassing Is he on the payroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yeah nursey will write all kinds of bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Oh FFS he's still here, if he's still here this time next week then we're the shit.. massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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