smudge1874 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Some of the posts in the last couple of pages make me despair. It shouldn't because I've always known O'Dreary was right! Villa fans are fickle!! I hate McLeish and everything he signifies, negative, passionless football and an apathetic board but what I hate more is that the people who are the passion and lifeblood behind this football are turning their backs on it when it needs us most. Its our duty and our responsibility to turn up and let the manager and the board what a **** sail on the mayonnaise sea job they are doing. If the fans in the 60s had behaved like we are now there would be no Aston Villa for us.!!! That's the reason I'm not going, in protest. It's not because I'm fickle. I've still been to over 15 games this season, mostly away. But I'm not going to give the club my hard earned so they can continue to piss it up the wall. People can choose to protest how they want. But I believe the only way Lerner will listen is if people stay away for a while. Wouldn't a proper fan realise something needs to be done to stop the downward spiral, and protest in the best way they feel fit. Turning up and just sitting there silent / or criticising what's going on, like the majority of fans have done this year, is doing the players no good, IMO. BTW I'm on my way to Thailand tomorrow while the game is on, so I can't attend. In protest at what?? The way the club is being run?? Who the manager is? The standard of football?? What ever the answer is that makes you fickle!! Your only "protesting" because we're shit. If we were 6th or 7th, the manager would be the same, the board would be the same and the football would still be shit. Would you "protest" then?? The fact that you ask that question says a lot, I have been going down the Villa since early 80's, some of my mates since the early 70's. we have been going through thick and thin so far from fickle, we used to still enjoy it as our expectations were realistic, we had passion and even when we during a relegation season we would still be excited before games and I would go without to get my ticket. This is like going to a self harm convention! There is no atmoshere, the seats are empty, the owners and manager dont give a shit what the fans think. My protest if I have to spell it out to you is against the board and the management, not the players and I have a choice of either the drastic action of boycotting the club I love or to sit in a stadium of empty seats, no atmosphere, no passion, poor football and poor management with my arms folded falling asleep to the songs of "shit support mlord" aimed at the away fans. RL knows that Villa fans have a history of sticking by the club through thick and thin and is abusing this by thinking that no matter what he does that fans like me will pay their money no matter what. You cant protest, that was shown to be futile at the beginning of the season and as I have said, people have lost their voices when it comes to showing their anger. As I say, I respect what you are doing but dont knock me for refusing to sit back and watch my club be killed off in fear of being called fickle by people like you. What I do is out of protest and is far more effective than sitting there doing **** all while RL rubs his hands knowing that a free £10 away coach will have you singing his praises within seconds. Even the team dont seem to care at the moment, they dont appriciate the fans support (or at least dont show it) The days of Mountfield running to the Holte to gee up the fans are still in my head to this day, do these players look like they want to stay up to you? b6bloke. I agree with almost everything and every emotion you talk about there. I hate going to Villa Park at the moment. It is, as you put it, like a self harm convention!! One thing I dont agree with is that protest is futile. the reason the protest pre season failed was that not enough people protested loudly enough. Imagine a packed Villa Park with everyone singing for the managers head or holding up white flags. That is a protest that would be very difficult to be ignored. Perhaps fickle is the wrong word. Perhaps gutless would be a better word for those that choose not to protest because its "futile" History shows that if enough people stand up and say I aint having this, things can be changed. History also shows that if enough people cant be arsed **** all changes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Djamfisher, fans travelling far has no relevance in the fickle/ not fickle argument. Fans can be fickle while travelling, fans can live next door to the ground and be fickle or not. The point that was being made about lost points, was that if we hadn't lost points from winning/ drawing positions, that we'd be much higher in the table WITHOUT changing the style of football, the manager or the owner. At times this year, we've lost points due to individual errors or defensive lapses. This could be put down to training, but no-one trained Warnock to head the ball into his own net. With a bit of luck, we could be higher up the table, with no managerial changes been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Staying away = less money True! no money = lack of quality in playing staff Makes no difference he wont invest anywaylack of quality in playing staff = can you actually get worse than where we are at present? Yes by carrying on as they are. more defeats = relegation True and it will happen no matter how many fans turn up because he wont spend more money! relegation = financial disaster. I really do wonder if it would be that bad, get rid of the overpaid players and let the reserve team show what it can do. financial disaster = worse players Can you get worse than what we are expecting next season!!! worse players = more relegations Doubt it! What you are talking about will most likely happen anway unless we do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge1874 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Some of the posts in the last couple of pages make me despair. It shouldn't because I've always known O'Dreary was right! Villa fans are fickle!! I hate McLeish and everything he signifies, negative, passionless football and an apathetic board but what I hate more is that the people who are the passion and lifeblood behind this football are turning their backs on it when it needs us most. Its our duty and our responsibility to turn up and let the manager and the board what a **** sail on the mayonnaise sea job they are doing. If the fans in the 60s had behaved like we are now there would be no Aston Villa for us.!!! That's the reason I'm not going, in protest. It's not because I'm fickle. I've still been to over 15 games this season, mostly away. But I'm not going to give the club my hard earned so they can continue to piss it up the wall. People can choose to protest how they want. But I believe the only way Lerner will listen is if people stay away for a while. Wouldn't a proper fan realise something needs to be done to stop the downward spiral, and protest in the best way they feel fit. Turning up and just sitting there silent / or criticising what's going on, like the majority of fans have done this year, is doing the players no good, IMO. BTW I'm on my way to Thailand tomorrow while the game is on, so I can't attend. In protest at what?? The way the club is being run?? Who the manager is? The standard of football?? What ever the answer is that makes you fickle!! Your only "protesting" because we're shit. If we were 6th or 7th, the manager would be the same, the board would be the same and the football would still be shit. Would you "protest" then?? THe way the club is being run, the utter contempt the board treated the fans with when we aired our concerns about Eck, and the negative approach taken by McLeish. Would I reneew if we were top 6? that's a non-starter as I know, under McLeish, we are only going 1 way and that is down. That hurts me, because the club and fans deserve so much better. We have no divine right to anything, and if we were in this posaition because of misfortune or whatever I'd still be there. I've had a season ticket since I was in my teens (over 11 yrs), but to hiring this guy in was ridiculous, we all knew we'd be fighting relegation this year because of him, but yet the board let it happen. Please tell me how else I am suppose to get my own message across to the board. The fans deserve better, simple as. Like I've said I've been to nearly 15 games this year still.. You say 25,000 PROPER fans wil lbe there, but how many of them will just sit in silence, or boo and jeer. Quite a big number I suspect, and these are not actions of proper fans. djamfisher. I agree with you on sooo many points. The club has been badly managed The fans are victims of utter contempt from the board We will never do anything but battle relegation under AM We have no divine right to anything What I cant and will never agree on is that staying away is the best policy. Staying away = less money no money = lack of quality in playing staff lack of quality in playing staff = more defeats more defeats = relegation relegation = financial disaster financial disaster = worse players worse players = more relegations You get the drift. Turn up make your feelings known through the right to protest, i.e boo jeer, call AM a word removed but don't do nothing!!! i certainly get your drift, and I haven't made my decision lightly. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. Respected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djamfisher Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Djamfisher, fans travelling far has no relevance in the fickle/ not fickle argument. Fans can be fickle while travelling, fans can live next door to the ground and be fickle or not. The point that was being made about lost points, was that if we hadn't lost points from winning/ drawing positions, that we'd be much higher in the table WITHOUT changing the style of football, the manager or the owner. At times this year, we've lost points due to individual errors or defensive lapses. This could be put down to training, but no-one trained Warnock to head the ball into his own net. With a bit of luck, we could be higher up the table, with no managerial changes been made. regarding the first point, I know it a response in frustraion. Regarding all the if's, IF is a real big word in football. For instance the goal against Fulham, what would've happened IF Schwarzer didn't fumble, we would've drew. What if the goal for Sunderland stood, we would've lost.. It works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I would hope that Villa Park would be full and be rocking for this game but I know that neither of those things will be true. not on you nelly! this is the mcleish effect in full flow, on more than one occasion this season the potential has been there for things to pick up, swansea at home after beating chelsea is the obvious one 35k in VP (which sadly is a decent crowd this year) iirc the atmosphere started well everyone was ready for a good performance and to turn the corner, it took all of 4 minutes to throw it away you can get as many people in VP tomorrow night as you like, get all the singers back, get everyone standing at kick off, see what % of them have sat down after another soul draining 20 minutes of utter garbage it happens every week, by the end of "paul mcgrath my lord..." fans are already starting to sit down bored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I've calculated that for every day he's been in charge, he's cost the club over £110,000 in terms of falling revenues, dudd transfers and the compensation etc. Truley an appalling appointment, the damage to the brand will take years to rectify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Some of the posts in the last couple of pages make me despair. It shouldn't because I've always known O'Dreary was right! Villa fans are fickle!! I hate McLeish and everything he signifies, negative, passionless football and an apathetic board but what I hate more is that the people who are the passion and lifeblood behind this football are turning their backs on it when it needs us most. Its our duty and our responsibility to turn up and let the manager and the board what a **** sail on the mayonnaise sea job they are doing. If the fans in the 60s had behaved like we are now there would be no Aston Villa for us.!!! That's the reason I'm not going, in protest. It's not because I'm fickle. I've still been to over 15 games this season, mostly away. But I'm not going to give the club my hard earned so they can continue to piss it up the wall. People can choose to protest how they want. But I believe the only way Lerner will listen is if people stay away for a while. Wouldn't a proper fan realise something needs to be done to stop the downward spiral, and protest in the best way they feel fit. Turning up and just sitting there silent / or criticising what's going on, like the majority of fans have done this year, is doing the players no good, IMO. BTW I'm on my way to Thailand tomorrow while the game is on, so I can't attend. In protest at what?? The way the club is being run?? Who the manager is? The standard of football?? What ever the answer is that makes you fickle!! Your only "protesting" because we're shit. If we were 6th or 7th, the manager would be the same, the board would be the same and the football would still be shit. Would you "protest" then?? The fact that you ask that question says a lot, I have been going down the Villa since early 80's, some of my mates since the early 70's. we have been going through thick and thin so far from fickle, we used to still enjoy it as our expectations were realistic, we had passion and even when we during a relegation season we would still be excited before games and I would go without to get my ticket. This is like going to a self harm convention! There is no atmoshere, the seats are empty, the owners and manager dont give a shit what the fans think. My protest if I have to spell it out to you is against the board and the management, not the players and I have a choice of either the drastic action of boycotting the club I love or to sit in a stadium of empty seats, no atmosphere, no passion, poor football and poor management with my arms folded falling asleep to the songs of "shit support mlord" aimed at the away fans. RL knows that Villa fans have a history of sticking by the club through thick and thin and is abusing this by thinking that no matter what he does that fans like me will pay their money no matter what. You cant protest, that was shown to be futile at the beginning of the season and as I have said, people have lost their voices when it comes to showing their anger. As I say, I respect what you are doing but dont knock me for refusing to sit back and watch my club be killed off in fear of being called fickle by people like you. What I do is out of protest and is far more effective than sitting there doing **** all while RL rubs his hands knowing that a free £10 away coach will have you singing his praises within seconds. Even the team dont seem to care at the moment, they dont appriciate the fans support (or at least dont show it) The days of Mountfield running to the Holte to gee up the fans are still in my head to this day, do these players look like they want to stay up to you? b6bloke. I agree with almost everything and every emotion you talk about there. I hate going to Villa Park at the moment. It is, as you put it, like a self harm convention!! One thing I dont agree with is that protest is futile. the reason the protest pre season failed was that not enough people protested loudly enough. Imagine a packed Villa Park with everyone singing for the managers head or holding up white flags. That is a protest that would be very difficult to be ignored. Perhaps fickle is the wrong word. Perhaps gutless would be a better word for those that choose not to protest because its "futile" History shows that if enough people stand up and say I aint having this, things can be changed. History also shows that if enough people cant be arsed **** all changes!! So where are these protests? Where are the white flags, the banners, the anti AM songs? We tried the anti AM songs on Saturday and nobody joined in, the back of the upper Holte sang over the top of it which seemed on purpose, whether this was a sign to get behind the team i dont know but I have never to this day seen a manager so bad get away with so much. No protests yet and as I said, the last game of the season is a waste of time, I am not even convinced that the protest will get the support it reuires to be even heard let alone get the stubbon RL to admit he was wrong. You dont want to surrender your club under any circumstances Smudge and you are not wrong, but those who feel the need to hit him where it hurts are not wrong either, we just have different methods yet the same love and objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongotastic Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Should we not merge this and the relegation thread. McLeish and relegation do go hand in hand after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djamfisher Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 B6bloke McLeish owns all the white flags in Brum. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 B6bloke McLeish owns all the white flags in Brum. :-) He must still have the ones from his last season with Blues then. Something else I have noticed which is very strange, where is all the panic of losing face with the blues? this alone used to stir up the anger in the fans, they may come up and start singing "the city is ours" but not a mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Smudge wrote Perhaps gutless would be a better word for those that choose not to protest because its "futile" History shows that if enough people stand up and say I aint having this, things can be changed. History also shows that if enough people cant be arsed **** all changes!! If fickle was a wrong choice of words GUTLESS is eve nworse. You don't know the people on here, what they have or have not done in the past so that is offensive to me and others. We all make our own minds up what to do and hurling insults hardly strengthens your case. I stood on the Holte when we were relegated to the old 3rd division with crowds of a size at times as good as now, I protested in the 60.s in the 80's and 90's and went to many AGMs and took on Doug and his cronies so lay off, I make my decisions and disagree with you at times but there are many many people, blogs etc talking of protests (and I have financially contributed to one) and there is still little sign of effect is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge1874 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Some of the posts in the last couple of pages make me despair. It shouldn't because I've always known O'Dreary was right! Villa fans are fickle!! I hate McLeish and everything he signifies, negative, passionless football and an apathetic board but what I hate more is that the people who are the passion and lifeblood behind this football are turning their backs on it when it needs us most. Its our duty and our responsibility to turn up and let the manager and the board what a **** sail on the mayonnaise sea job they are doing. If the fans in the 60s had behaved like we are now there would be no Aston Villa for us.!!! That's the reason I'm not going, in protest. It's not because I'm fickle. I've still been to over 15 games this season, mostly away. But I'm not going to give the club my hard earned so they can continue to piss it up the wall. People can choose to protest how they want. But I believe the only way Lerner will listen is if people stay away for a while. Wouldn't a proper fan realise something needs to be done to stop the downward spiral, and protest in the best way they feel fit. Turning up and just sitting there silent / or criticising what's going on, like the majority of fans have done this year, is doing the players no good, IMO. BTW I'm on my way to Thailand tomorrow while the game is on, so I can't attend. In protest at what?? The way the club is being run?? Who the manager is? The standard of football?? What ever the answer is that makes you fickle!! Your only "protesting" because we're shit. If we were 6th or 7th, the manager would be the same, the board would be the same and the football would still be shit. Would you "protest" then?? The fact that you ask that question says a lot, I have been going down the Villa since early 80's, some of my mates since the early 70's. we have been going through thick and thin so far from fickle, we used to still enjoy it as our expectations were realistic, we had passion and even when we during a relegation season we would still be excited before games and I would go without to get my ticket. This is like going to a self harm convention! There is no atmoshere, the seats are empty, the owners and manager dont give a shit what the fans think. My protest if I have to spell it out to you is against the board and the management, not the players and I have a choice of either the drastic action of boycotting the club I love or to sit in a stadium of empty seats, no atmosphere, no passion, poor football and poor management with my arms folded falling asleep to the songs of "shit support mlord" aimed at the away fans. RL knows that Villa fans have a history of sticking by the club through thick and thin and is abusing this by thinking that no matter what he does that fans like me will pay their money no matter what. You cant protest, that was shown to be futile at the beginning of the season and as I have said, people have lost their voices when it comes to showing their anger. As I say, I respect what you are doing but dont knock me for refusing to sit back and watch my club be killed off in fear of being called fickle by people like you. What I do is out of protest and is far more effective than sitting there doing **** all while RL rubs his hands knowing that a free £10 away coach will have you singing his praises within seconds. Even the team dont seem to care at the moment, they dont appriciate the fans support (or at least dont show it) The days of Mountfield running to the Holte to gee up the fans are still in my head to this day, do these players look like they want to stay up to you? b6bloke. I agree with almost everything and every emotion you talk about there. I hate going to Villa Park at the moment. It is, as you put it, like a self harm convention!! One thing I dont agree with is that protest is futile. the reason the protest pre season failed was that not enough people protested loudly enough. Imagine a packed Villa Park with everyone singing for the managers head or holding up white flags. That is a protest that would be very difficult to be ignored. Perhaps fickle is the wrong word. Perhaps gutless would be a better word for those that choose not to protest because its "futile" History shows that if enough people stand up and say I aint having this, things can be changed. History also shows that if enough people cant be arsed **** all changes!! So where are these protests? Where are the white flags, the banners, the anti AM songs? We tried the anti AM songs on Saturday and nobody joined in, the back of the upper Holte sang over the top of it which seemed on purpose, whether this was a sign to get behind the team i dont know but I have never to this day seen a manager so bad get away with so much. No protests yet and as I said, the last game of the season is a waste of time, I am not even convinced that the protest will get the support it reuires to be even heard let alone get the stubbon RL to admit he was wrong. You dont want to surrender your club under any circumstances Smudge and you are not wrong, but those who feel the need to hit him where it hurts are not wrong either, we just have different methods yet the same love and objective. Respected!! Got to be honest, I'm astounded by the lack of hatred directed towards the manager by the crowd. I suspect that may change if we go one or two down tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge1874 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Smudge wrote Perhaps gutless would be a better word for those that choose not to protest because its "futile" History shows that if enough people stand up and say I aint having this, things can be changed. History also shows that if enough people cant be arsed **** all changes!! If fickle was a wrong choice of words GUTLESS is eve nworse. You don't know the people on here, what they have or have not done in the past so that is offensive to me and others. We all make our own minds up what to do and hurling insults hardly strengthens your case. I stood on the Holte when we were relegated to the old 3rd division with crowds of a size at times as good as now, I protested in the 60.s in the 80's and 90's and went to many AGMs and took on Doug and his cronies so lay off, I make my decisions and disagree with you at times but there are many many people, blogs etc talking of protests (and I have financially contributed to one) and there is still little sign of effect is there? DenisB Apologies for the offence caused. My intention was not to offend but get a rise in people. There is far too much apathy and resignation to whats happening at our club and it makes me very very sad indeed. I take you at your word on your history as a Villan which makes me quite disappointed that you choose now, arguably one of the lowest points in our history to effectively say "do what you **** like with Villa I don't care". I respect your right to make that decision I just don't agree with it. If the blokes like you are doing this then the club really is ****!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm of Denis's generation, same sort of history. My view is that the only thing that will make an impression is staying away en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Alex McLeish latest comments, the massive expectations we have at this club, sorry mate all we expected was mid-table as soon as you arrived and you couldn't even deliver that you mug. The guy goes on about the rotten home record, sorry buck stops with the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You youngsters can do all the protesting, there is only so much in me........whats it actually achieved? We are almost back where it all started in the 60's, one man having too much control and ignoring the fans, the difference is RL is riche rthan Nobby Smith and won't bow down so easily, especially as he gets the same both sides of the pond......... orignally we had shares and shareholders who had some limited say in the club and at least once a year could hurl abuse at Doug....we can't even do that with this guy, hiding behind his sofa in NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 love these quotes from Hleb The day before a game he would come onto the pitch and show us what to do: 'You stand here, the goalkeeper will give you the ball here, kick it as far as you can and don't pass to anyone nearby. And we all run.'" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Who's more concerned by their Blues friends and fans of other teams ripping it out of you than the actual relegation itself? We have a team of players who are disinterested, a manager who is so negative and one dimensional in his tactics that it's laughable and little hope for future development unless major, major changes happen soon. Anyone else want to join me on the apathy bus. i would do but i cant be bothered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazilla Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Alex McLeish latest comments, the massive expectations we have at this club, sorry mate all we expected was mid-table as soon as you arrived and you couldn't even deliver that you mug. The guy goes on about the rotten home record, sorry buck stops with the manager. Dear Mr McLeish, if Villa are beaten tomorrow be prepared for all hell to break loose as you walk towards the tunnel at the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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