TrentVilla Posted January 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2012 He tried to sign Demebele when at Birmingham and how I'd love him in our midfield now. He signed some decent cb's True like all managers he has made or tried to make some decent signings although I think the ability of Dann and Johnson is seriously inflated by many, they are decent but nothing special. He has though also made some terrible signings, again like most managers. If you look at his overall record of signings whilst at Birmingham it isn't really that much of a positive against his name. there too and whilst he's been here we have seen Herd, Gardner and Clark being given decent runs so he's not afraid to use the younger players. Like Houllier before him he has little or no option so I'm not really sure this is something to credit him for. That being said I dont hold much hope for us progressing too much with him but I certainly dont think like some (not pointing at you) we'll be relegated or even scrapping around there. I agree, we won't be this season. I do genuinely fear for the direction we are heading though because I don't trust McLeish's ability and with the limited resources he appears to have to do the job that worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wrong manager , wrong time. Although I am struggling to work out what would be the right time for a manager like Mcleish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclarke2010 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I seriously cant believe on the previous page to this someone has actually written they will blame mcleish for the 2 penalties cause he told them to get stuck in at half time. ha, so he told dunne to take out a player who had over hit the ball and that was going to our keeper, and told bent to make silly challanges in silly positions. unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I see the point of McLeish, he won't get us relegated while the wage cutting goes on, BUT and it's a big but, I've seen enough to know this guy wont push us any higher even with money to spend, his tackticks are to basic, and he is yet to sort out the team defensively against set plays, which has been a problem for 18 months. If we finish 8th-12th fair enough, we finnish 9th last year with a much better squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclarke2010 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i enjoy the fact people are starting to come around to the fact that the players have a lot of blame too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2012 We need to build a team, we need a manager who can find good deals in the transfer market. We need a manager who through their coaching can improve the players and the football. For me there is no evidence Mcleish can do this. So while a few things might go right I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining. I've seen enough to know this guy won't push us any higher even with money to spend, his tactics are to basic, and he is yet to sort out the team defensively against set plays, which has been a problem for 18 months. If we finish 8th-12th fair enough, we finish 9th last year with a much better squad. I agree with both of those quotes. I think they sum it up. I'm not anti McLeish, I hope he does well, but truth be told I don't think the Club will really go anywhere with him as manager. He isn't a terrible manager, or the anti-christ or anything like that. He does the best he can with what he has, which is a squad that is good in parts, overpaid and over-rated in others ,and with some promising, but no finished article younger players. Ideally the younger ones would have some better examples to look up to and to learn from. He's fortunate to have the job, but unfortunate to be in a position where he can't really do anything other than try and be a bit better than Houllier (which shouldn't be hard, really). Expectations we have, myself included, are probably unrealistic this season. We'd like to be entertained and to see some free flowing attacking football, played with some zest, but the squad just isn't set up that way. Given was a good signing, N'zogbia and Hutton were not good signings. Keane, it's early to judge, but he seems a good addition. About 50% success in signings is par for the course. He's unlucky in that we need, with the balance of the squad, for 3 out of 4 to come off to appear like we're doing well. Meh. Marking time at best is never exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree with most of your post blandy, but how is he doing the best he can with what he has? Doing the best he can with what he has would mean being more shrewd in the transfer market, better football (I don't necessarily mean passing, just more attacking) and we'd be getting better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree with most of your post blandy, but how is he doing the best he can with what he has? Doing the best he can with what he has would mean being more shrewd in the transfer market, better football (I don't necessarily mean passing, just more attacking) and we'd be getting better results. Ok then but he is doing better than Houllier last year in terms of stats, with arguably a weaker squad yet you backed Houllier to the hilt. So surely that would mean Houllier wasnt doing the best with what he had either and should have been getting better results too but that seems to be alright and acceptable because Houllier had an apparent 'vision'? Given - good signing Nzogbia - almost everyone on here wanted him and was desperate for him to sign, whilst it hasnt worked out yet there is no way on gods earth at the time that was a poor signing. Keane - so far so good Hutton - is average but no where near as bad as people make out. Such is the hate for him on here he has been blamed for all three goals yesterday which is pathetic. He also hasnt been at fault for a goal in a long time and was also involved in two of our goals at Wolves. Jenas - well maybe he should have known better with regards to his injury record. Also you said earlier that McLeish left it too late yesterday to shake things up but you havent actually said what he could have done. I'm not sure any amount of change would have stopped Bent and Dunne diving like a virgin on his first shag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How does Houllier not getting the best out of what he had disprove my point in any way? Yes I supported Houllier (although not to the extent people make out) but I never believed he was getting the best out of what he had. We were definitely underperforming this time last season. On the whole I'd say finishing 9th was about right when you take into account all the stuff that had gone on during the season but I certainly thought he could've been doing a lot better when we were in that relegation battle. It certainly was not acceptable that we did so poorly during the middle of last season and I made it clear multiple times. However, I supported him because IMO there were signs that we would improve. With McLeish I don't believe it gets any better than this. He's a poor manager and he proved it at SHA when they finished 9th one season and were then relegated the next, all while playing terrible football. I don't even know why you brought Houllier up. This thread isn't about him and neither was the point I was trying to make. As for transfers, he hasn't been terrible but at the same time he hasn't been great either. Surely if he was getting the best out of what he had resource wide he'd have done a better job in the transfer market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So far AMC has made 1 good signing (Given, just in case any retards thought I meant CNZ or Hutton) and he has failed to get anything out of his other 2 signings. Surely this doesn't look good from a business perspective? Spend £18m on 3 players on a likely combined £160k/week and and get very little in return other than the GK. For me he has underperformed in every aspect of his job so far and shows no signs of improving. We had no real outstanding "new manager syndrome" period and we are just crap now. We have fallen so far in such a short time. McLeish OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How does Houllier not getting the best out of what he had disprove my point in any way? Yes I supported Houllier (although not to the extent people make out) but I never believed he was getting the best out of what he had. We were definitely underperformed this time last season. On the whole I'd say finishing 9th was about right when you take into account all the stuff that had gone on during the season but I certainly thought he could've been doing a lot better when we were in that relegation battle. It certainly was not acceptable that we did so poorly during the middle of last season and I made it clear multiple times. However, I supported him because IMO there were signs that we would improve. With McLeish I don't believe it gets any better than this. He's a poor manager and he proved it at SHA when they finished 9th one season and were then relegated the next, all while playing terrible football. I don't even know why you brought Houllier up. This thread isn't about him and neither was the point I was trying to make. Why does a post have to be about disproving someone's point? I just wanted to understand why one for you is acceptable and not commented on as getting the best out of the squad and getting better results but the other one isnt, that's all. So that's obviously why I brought Houllier up as its very relevant to your particular post and to understand further on your view and opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 As I said, Houllier underperforming wasn't acceptable. They're different situations though and not identical to each other. Still wasn't relevant though. My point was that McLeish has been underperforming and all you did was bring up Houllier underperforming and my attitude towards him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Still wasn't relevant though. My point was that McLeish has been underperforming and all you did was bring up Houllier underperforming and my attitude towards him. Not sure how much clearer I can be. Wasnt really too bothered about the point you made I just wanted to know, out of pure interest, why you believe McLeish to be under performing yet with a better squad I thought you didnt think Houllier was. **** hell mate its just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Still wasn't relevant though. My point was that McLeish has been underperforming and all you did was bring up Houllier underperforming and my attitude towards him. Not sure how much clearer I can be. Wasnt really too bothered about the point you made I just wanted to know, out of pure interest, why you believe McLeish to be under performing yet with a better squad I thought you didnt think Houllier was. **** hell mate its just a question.No need to get like that. Well I answered it: I think they were/are both underperforming. Happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Still wasn't relevant though. My point was that McLeish has been underperforming and all you did was bring up Houllier underperforming and my attitude towards him. Not sure how much clearer I can be. Wasnt really too bothered about the point you made I just wanted to know, out of pure interest, why you believe McLeish to be under performing yet with a better squad I thought you didnt think Houllier was. **** hell mate its just a question.No need to get like that. Well I answered it: I think they were/are both underperforming. Happy now? I know you answered it but you asked twice why I brought up Houllier so I answered you again and fella I'm really not being like anything, I'm just trying to explain myself. I was happy before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamosMiAstonVilla Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward. This sat too deep thing is a myth that's why. If anything we did not sit deep enough. Watch from the kick-off in the 2nd half. Keane, Gabby, Bent Ireland all push up towards their goal. We always had plenty of players forward yesterday. Their goals we had players chasing them back (Bent penalty). We may have won the match if we did park the bus - but it would have been a long half! Like I said before, you can't put yesterday on Mcleish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The difference for me between Houllier and McEck is that I actually thought last Summer would have meant a clear out of the cack we still have and that some decent signings would have come in. There was talk of plans and players that would have excited a bit (Cabaye anyone) Now all we have is a manager that is really a symptom of the malaise surrounding the club. Who knows what will happen this summer as we will lose the cack mainly on free transfers, save the money on wages but if the object is to save that money there will be few, if any, replacements otherwise what is the point of getting rid to save wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think the team is having more effect on McLeish, than McLeish is having on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think that's a good point. The pragmatic option yesterday was to park the bus, frustrate them and look to hit them on the break. But I think he's so concerned about looking like a defensive manager he didn't pull people back and get them to sit deep. They have to leave one back, so we have a man over. When you're a man up and organised it's almost impossible for anyone to break you down as you're always 2 on 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think the team is having more effect on McLeish, than McLeish is having on the team.What do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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