The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[TRO]

I've definately seen signs of improvement in our play lately

little one two's with N'Zogbia & Ireland....spots of improvisation too.

Little signs of confidence and belief returning.

....Hope I'm not speaking too soon.

PS The pleasing thing for me, depite the fact that we are not yet dominating games with possession, there are signs of progress with the elements of possession....fingers crossed.

[macandally]

I dont give a shit if he touched the sign or not

Who mentioned Houllier touching the sign? I wasn't even aware until I got back from Anfield that night that he had even done that. It was his disrespectful behaviour in front of me and the rest of our fantastic supporters of this great club that pissed us off.

Anyway as others have said thank **** he is gone and we don't have to put up with any more of his gutless tripe and disrespectful, embarrassing behaviour.

As for McLeish lets hope this recent up turn continues then we can all be happy. Well most of us.

Mate if happiness is McLeish than I would rather be miserable.

One result, there may be more, who knows but at the moment one result where due to injuries we ended up with a team playing the way they know, MONs counter attacking style of sitting back and soaking up pressure before using the pace of Gabby.

[macandally]

I think we would all probably agree that there were elements of what Houllier was trying to do that were what most of us wanted to see. He was a bit of a dick for the way that he behaved around Plop and some of his PR gaffes were embarrassing BUT what he was trying to do around getting us to play football was, IMO, the correct way to go. Whether he would have got there or not is another question. Whilst I didn't particularly like Ged, I was interested in what he was trying to do and could, at least, get enthused by the prospect of us playing some football.

It would have been fantastic, again IMO, to see a good young manager come in to replace him with the same footballing ethos. I would really have liked Martinez, Coyle or Lambert or someone of that ilk. Many will say that Coyle is doing poorly and Martinez not much better but I believe that the resources and infrastructure that they operate within are nowhere near what we could provide.

McLeish, for me, was a huge step backwards. He is MON Lite - similar tactics (or lack thereof) but little character or inspiration and this shows with his football.

Yesterdays performance was good BUT what really winds me up is some people saying credit where credit is due. He picked a balanced side with players playing in their right positions and set up to play the opposition for the first time this season and that was only probably because Heskey had been injured and Hutton suspended. The performance in the last couple of games has shown that we have enough talent at this club, if used properly, to compete around the 7th-8th spot and give the big boys a game. The problem is that Eck doesn't use it properly the majority of the time and that is just wrong!

This, glad I am not the only nutter on the forum! :-)

[TRO]

I think we would all probably agree that there were elements of what Houllier was trying to do that were what most of us wanted to see. He was a bit of a dick for the way that he behaved around Plop and some of his PR gaffes were embarrassing BUT what he was trying to do around getting us to play football was, IMO, the correct way to go. Whether he would have got there or not is another question. Whilst I didn't particularly like Ged, I was interested in what he was trying to do and could, at least, get enthused by the prospect of us playing some football.

It would have been fantastic, again IMO, to see a good young manager come in to replace him with the same footballing ethos. I would really have liked Martinez, Coyle or Lambert or someone of that ilk. Many will say that Coyle is doing poorly and Martinez not much better but I believe that the resources and infrastructure that they operate within are nowhere near what we could provide.

McLeish, for me, was a huge step backwards. He is MON Lite - similar tactics (or lack thereof) but little character or inspiration and this shows with his football.

Yesterdays performance was good BUT what really winds me up is some people saying credit where credit is due. He picked a balanced side with players playing in their right positions and set up to play the opposition for the first time this season and that was only probably because Heskey had been injured and Hutton suspended. The performance in the last couple of games has shown that we have enough talent at this club, if used properly, to compete around the 7th-8th spot and give the big boys a game. The problem is that Eck doesn't use it properly the majority of the time and that is just wrong!

I don't know whether the bloke is going to make it or not, the jury is still out for me, but IMO its too soon to tell.

It takes managers time to make their mark, He is clearly not an O'Neill, just different characters, but what i can gather a thoughly decent individual. Martin did have 4 years.

I equally don't know whether the recent up turn in form is down to him or just coincidental of players returning to form, but we can't keep kicking the cat.

we have examples of Keane at Blackburn the peaks and troughs just leave the fans neurotic and then expensive managers like AVB who can't just click their fingers and get it right.

Martin is always likely to do what he did at Sunderland today, thats the character, he will give you an immediate lift.

Hopefully we have a bit of confidence to build on now, lets see if ECK can HACK IT.

[johndunse]

Will people stop banging on about the Anfield incident. I wasn't happy but Houllier isn't our manager anymore so it's time to let it go.

The Spurs match however happened recently and seeing as McLeish is still our manager, and seeing this is a thread where we can be critical about him, I think it's valid to discuss his lowest points.

It also seems fans are getting too over excited now that we've managed to pick up a result against the top 6. The Swansea match tommorow could be devastating and we'll be back to square one with this manager.

So long as you keep looking on the bright side, that's the main thing.

[barry'sboots]

Hopefully we have a bit of confidence to build on now, lets see if ECK can HACK IT.

Not for me mate. We normally agree on most things but not this - I would have McLeish out tomorrow if I had my way. His footballing ethos is all wrong for a club like ours and he will leave us in a markedly worse position that when he arrived IMO.

[danceoftheshamen]

I think our main problem is that we have been in "transition" for longer than any other team in the Prem.. We have new players trying to settle in whilst at the same time the management constantly changing above their heads!.. Let us not forget that in the summer we lost Freidel,Young x 2, Downing, Sidwell & a whole host of other fringe players. We also changed manager AGAIN & completely, for the 2nd season running, changed our footballing ethos!

That is an awful lot for any team to cope with & we havn't even taken into account Given, Nzog & Hutton having to settle in, the injury problems of Jenas & indeed the fact that due to the ridiculously drawn out nature of finding a manager which took place, we didn't have a very settled pre season either..

So i think we have to look at positives here..

McCleish & co are starting to find out our strengths both individually & collectively & for me there are now clear signs of improvement. It has for sure taken rather too long to reach this point & sometimes it has been circumstances which have fortuitously highlighted something rather than expert analysis..

I.E Hutton getting injured & Cuellar coming in coinciding with a sudden defensive improvement & Jenas's injury possibly giving Stevie Ireland his chance

But do you know what?

I don't give a monkeys!!! Many of the best managers have "got lucky" sometimes & the fact is that regardless of how it came about we are improving despite all of the above & for the 1st time this season i have now purchased a match ticket, for the Swansea game.

I now want to see some shrewd business done in the tranfer window & us to get through the massive 2 year learning curve we have experienced since MON's departure by finishing this season strongly.

I love this club & have decided it's time to get up, dust myself down after all the bitter disappointments we have all had to endure & do my bit again..Time to support this great old club once more & not be a hindrance to it by feeding the negativity pool which lets be honest does no good whatsoever!

[TRO]

Hopefully we have a bit of confidence to build on now, lets see if ECK can HACK IT.

Not for me mate. We normally agree on most things but not this - I would have McLeish out tomorrow if I had my way. His footballing ethos is all wrong for a club like ours and he will leave us in a markedly worse position that when he arrived IMO.

Barry, I'm not sitting here telling you ,you are wrong and I cannot change folks opinions ( i don't want to - its their opinion)

but, he won't get the sack anytime soon, because he hasn't been with us long enough. He would not have been my choice either. The guy is a pretty decent guy, but I know that won't wash with his detractors, but i do know when he was at the blues he was asked " would you like to be manager of the villa" a cheeky comment said in jest and he replied in a serious manner " I'd love to be".... so he's kinda wanted the job for some time....lets face it its a great job.

The club would seriously damage its standing in recruiting football managers, if it parted with him now and I suspect the rest of the football world would take a dim view.

The people that have appointed him have( to my knowledge) made no comment on his postion so I don't know whether they are pleased to date or otherwise.

Ps Its interesting to read that Doug Ellis has mooted that he knows the real reason why Martin O'Neill left, expresses his disappointment on his departure and still claims his appointment.....Interesting to know " the real reason" spelt out. Perhaps a VT'r can get doug to spill the beans.

[TRO]

I think our main problem is that we have been in "transition" for longer than any other team in the Prem.. We have new players trying to settle in whilst at the same time the management constantly changing above their heads!.. Let us not forget that in the summer we lost Freidel,Young x 2, Downing, Sidwell & a whole host of other fringe players. We also changed manager AGAIN & completely, for the 2nd season running, changed our footballing ethos!

That is an awful lot for any team to cope with & we havn't even taken into account Given, Nzog & Hutton having to settle in, the injury problems of Jenas & indeed the fact that due to the ridiculously drawn out nature of finding a manager which took place, we didn't have a very settled pre season either..

So i think we have to look at positives here..

McCleish & co are starting to find out our strengths both individually & collectively & for me there are now clear signs of improvement. It has for sure taken rather too long to reach this point & sometimes it has been circumstances which have fortuitously highlighted something rather than expert analysis..

I.E Hutton getting injured & Cuellar coming in coinciding with a sudden defensive improvement & Jenas's injury possibly giving Stevie Ireland his chance

But do you know what?

I don't give a monkeys!!! Many of the best managers have "got lucky" sometimes & the fact is that regardless of how it came about we are improving despite all of the above & for the 1st time this season i have now purchased a match ticket, for the Swansea game.

I now want to see some shrewd business done in the tranfer window & us to get through the massive 2 year learning curve we have experienced since MON's departure by finishing this season strongly.

I love this club & have decided it's time to get up, dust myself down after all the bitter disappointments we have all had to endure & do my bit again..Time to support this great old club once more & not be a hindrance to it by feeding the negativity pool which lets be honest does no good whatsoever!

good post

like the time Ron saunders went for Mick Ferguson ( coventry) and missed out so we signed Peter withe.....sometimes they do get lucky.

[nick76]

I'm still firmly in the McLeish Out camp! Chelsea game was a big positive, there was many things I can still point to why he should go, Chelsea were poor and recent results for them have shown that BUT for the first time in only about the second full game from memory of this season I was not thinking of other things to do while watching the game. I was not depressed watching the game....frustrated at times, yes....but a bit of entertainment and more surprisingly a lot of that was due to Ireland, who I have considered one of the biggest waste of spaces in the past.

One game doesn't change my opinion and given who was out I wonder if it had been the same if those individuals were fit but that is just me being pessimistic. Let's start seeing this kind of performance consistently please....

[TRO]

I'm still firmly in the McLeish Out camp! Chelsea game was a big positive, there was many things I can still point to why he should go, Chelsea were poor and recent results for them have shown that BUT for the first time in only about the second full game from memory of this season I was not thinking of other things to do while watching the game. I was not depressed watching the game....frustrated at times, yes....but a bit of entertainment and more surprisingly a lot of that was due to Ireland, who I have considered one of the biggest waste of spaces in the past.

One game doesn't change my opinion and given who was out I wonder if it had been the same if those individuals were fit but that is just me being pessimistic. Let's start seeing this kind of performance consistently please....

During Martin O'Neills 3rd season we were above 6th 34 times in the season.... do opposition teams talk about our decline or us being poor when they beat us.... not bloody likely.

They just wallow in the glory of the win

It is our business to go out and beat the opposition it is not for us to busy ourselves worrying about why the opposition let us beat them or what problems they have today

This game we are all involved in can't be " heads you lose tails you lose"

I couldn't give a flying toss whether Chelsea have their youth team out and we beat them.....its their call.

PS Chelsea are now in transition..........so are we.

[Zatman]

I think our main problem is that we have been in "transition" for longer than any other team in the Prem

should try be an Arsenal fan

[VillaChris]

McLeish still has a lot to prove to me aswell but just to throw a grenade into the proceedings...what if McLeish finishes higher than 11th this season? That was after all MON's final position in his first season in charge here. Is the team now significantly better than it was then? Probably our attack now is stronger but you could say our defence was much better then...Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma, Sorensen all decent premier league players.

[harris21]

McLeish still has a lot to prove to me aswell but just to throw a grenade into the proceedings...what if McLeish finishes higher than 11th this season? That was after all MON's final position in his first season in charge here. Is the team now significantly better than it was then? Probably our attack now is stronger but you could say our defence was much better then...Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma, Sorensen all decent premier league players.

KABOOOM!!

Deffo makes me think a bit, plus the prem has changed a lot since then as well (average teams getting better, top 4 turning into top 6). But AM will deffo need to do a lot more to convince me, starting with a win tomorrow and a good attaching display!!

[nick76]

I'm still firmly in the McLeish Out camp! Chelsea game was a big positive, there was many things I can still point to why he should go, Chelsea were poor and recent results for them have shown that BUT for the first time in only about the second full game from memory of this season I was not thinking of other things to do while watching the game. I was not depressed watching the game....frustrated at times, yes....but a bit of entertainment and more surprisingly a lot of that was due to Ireland, who I have considered one of the biggest waste of spaces in the past.

One game doesn't change my opinion and given who was out I wonder if it had been the same if those individuals were fit but that is just me being pessimistic. Let's start seeing this kind of performance consistently please....

During Martin O'Neills 3rd season we were above 6th 34 times in the season.... do opposition teams talk about our decline or us being poor when they beat us.... not bloody likely.

They just wallow in the glory of the win

It is our business to go out and beat the opposition it is not for us to busy ourselves worrying about why the opposition let us beat them or what problems they have today

This game we are all involved in can't be " heads you lose tails you lose"

I couldn't give a flying toss whether Chelsea have their youth team out and we beat them.....its their call.

PS Chelsea are now in transition..........so are we.

I meant who was out for us I.e. Heskey

[ozvillafan]

Credit where it is due. AM got it right against Chelsea and our performances over the last 3 games have been a marked improvement over some of the dross we were served up earlier in the season.

Also, I don't buy this "Chelsea were poor" stuff. AM is not responsible for our opponent's form, he just has to beat the side put out against him - and he did.

All that said, I still don't believe he is the man for the job. He may get us back to the heady heights of 6th that we enjoyed under MON but, just like his predecessor, AM's style of football will never see us getting any higher. What we really need is a manager who can instill a style similar to how the better sides in our competition play. And not just the first team, but throughout the club from juniors to seniors so we have some consistency and - at last! - a style we can call our own.

[jon_c]

I think our main problem is that we have been in "transition" for longer than any other team in the Prem

should try be an Arsenal fan

Or Sunderland, how many players did they change in the summer?

[barry'sboots]

Credit where it is due. AM got it right against Chelsea and our performances over the last 3 games have been a marked improvement over some of the dross we were served up earlier in the season.

This statement annoys me and I have heard it a lot. The guy should get credit for sending out our best team in a sensible formation with players in their rightful position?????

That must be really hard to achieve when you are spending all of your time counting your £2m+ p.a..

A lot of VT'ers have been crying out for this since the season started and it has taken our manager, on his big wages, half a season to work it out? And even then it was probably caused by injuries/suspensions?

[kurtsimonw]

McLeish still has a lot to prove to me aswell but just to throw a grenade into the proceedings...what if McLeish finishes higher than 11th this season? That was after all MON's final position in his first season in charge here. Is the team now significantly better than it was then? Probably our attack now is stronger but you could say our defence was much better then...Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma, Sorensen all decent premier league players.

That's a very good point.

I think MON inherited a worse team, but then he also spent more in his first season (AMc has actually made a large profit) on transfers.

There was also no Man City back then. The league is stronger than than in 2006.

[Pelle]

Credit where it is due. AM got it right against Chelsea and our performances over the last 3 games have been a marked improvement over some of the dross we were served up earlier in the season.

This statement annoys me and I have heard it a lot. The guy should get credit for sending out our best team in a sensible formation with players in their rightful position?????

That must be really hard to achieve when you are spending all of your time counting your £2m+ p.a..

A lot of VT'ers have been crying out for this since the season started and it has taken our manager, on his big wages, half a season to work it out? And even then it was probably caused by injuries/suspensions?

So people in general has been calling for Ireland, Clark and Cuellar at the rb and to put Bent on the bench? Must've missed that. And even if so, would that line up automatically mean a win away to Chelsea? Don't that either.