Gym Routine

[KenjiOgiwara]

I think losing kgs if you're overweight is done in the kitchen. I'd almost advice people to avoid going to the gym, but I know that is something others will contest. In my experience if you go to the gym you burn less calories than you think and feel, and you gain the hunger and get mentally get ready for big meals when you get home, thus it's almost impossible for people to lose weight this way. 

Personally I did no gym and all kitchen, with a 4-5 month diet plan more or less, that I've followed afterwards as it became kind of a lifestyle. 

If you're no fan of starving yourself, the easiest thing is to get control over how much calories you really need and how much you in fact are taking in. First basic place is dinner. Just cut your dinner in half and eat half of what you normally do. Then wait 15-20 minutes and see if you can live with that amount of food until the next meal comes along. 

As for what Michelsen says I'd kind of agree. Personally I think gaining muscle becomes very difficult after a certain amount of time. It's like your body reaches a ceiling. 

What I've learned the last year is that you can build muscle without having a caloric surplus, but you won't gain weight. And caloric surplus is more for gaining weight IMO and maximizing muscle growth. Personally I've grown in both width on lats and glutes by a LOT in caloric deficit. The major problem without being in caloric deficit is that the workouts become really awful cause you have no energy. 

[Stevo985]

I wouldn't say don't go to the gym, especially if you want to keep some muscle, but it's right that it's about 90% done in the kitchen.

Unless you suddenly start doing hours of cardio every week, you won't be burning enough calories from exercise to make much difference to your weight if you don't fix your diet.

My biggest issue with the gym has always been getting rid of fat. I know it's about how I eat but I'm too ill disciplined. especially now that I live with my gf. When I lived on my own it was far easier to eat well. It's too easy to cave into cravings when there's two of you.

It just takes discipline and some planning.

[KenjiOgiwara]

23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 It's too easy to cave into cravings when there's two of you.

My big advantage is that I am not that fond of sweet stuff. Makes things a bit easier. 

[kurtsimonw]

I feel I have that horrible skinny/fat shape. There's stomach/chest areas of fat, but otherwise I'm a pretty skinny build.  I'm no nutritionist, but I feel my diet is pretty good. Wholemeal bread, eggs, tomatoes, chicken breast, 5% minced meat for "treat" meals like burgers, eggs, brown rice, tuna, potatoes and then various fruit/veg. Then I use protein shakes on workout days just to give the protein a little top up.

I think it's the frustration of knowing I'm getting stronger, but seeing no physical changes as a result, then keeping those fatty areas.

As for deadlifts/squats. I do have anterior pelvic tilt, so I have a real concern about completely **** my back by doing them. I'm not the most confident gym goer when it comes to trying knew things anyway, so it's one of those things that's hard to just start doing on your own when you don't know what you're doing.

[Stevo985]

4 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

My big advantage is that I am not that fond of sweet stuff. Makes things a bit easier. 

 

Yeah I'm sure that helps.

My goal now is when I get back from holiday get back on the diet properly. No more excuses. I'll probably give up chocolate and crisps as well as thats' what I usually give in to and snack on, and I'm much better at just banning myself from stuff rather than "cutting down"

[KenjiOgiwara]

Must admit I am a sucker for almonds though, and probably eat around 2000 calories a week of that easily. 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said:

I feel I have that horrible skinny/fat shape. There's stomach/chest areas of fat, but otherwise I'm a pretty skinny build.  I'm no nutritionist, but I feel my diet is pretty good. Wholemeal bread, eggs, tomatoes, chicken breast, 5% minced meat for "treat" meals like burgers, eggs, brown rice, tuna, potatoes and then various fruit/veg. Then I use protein shakes on workout days just to give the protein a little top up.

I think it's the frustration of knowing I'm getting stronger, but seeing no physical changes as a result, then keeping those fatty areas.

As for deadlifts/squats. I do have anterior pelvic tilt, so I have a real concern about completely **** my back by doing them. I'm not the most confident gym goer when it comes to trying knew things anyway, so it's one of those things that's hard to just start doing on your own when you don't know what you're doing.

I've had lower back problems in the past, documented on here. Last year I totally **** my back doing a deadlift (I lost my balance as I started the lift and made the stupid decisions to keep lifting and properly popped my back)

Since then I've done now squats and no deadlifts, but I've probably got more muscle than I've ever had (A bit too much fat at the moment though)

 

They are great lifts but you don't HAVE to do them. So if you have genuine concerns then it's not the be all and end all.

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

I feel I have that horrible skinny/fat shape. There's stomach/chest areas of fat, but otherwise I'm a pretty skinny build.  I'm no nutritionist, but I feel my diet is pretty good. Wholemeal bread, eggs, tomatoes, chicken breast, 5% minced meat for "treat" meals like burgers, eggs, brown rice, tuna, potatoes and then various fruit/veg. Then I use protein shakes on workout days just to give the protein a little top up.

I think it's the frustration of knowing I'm getting stronger, but seeing no physical changes as a result, then keeping those fatty areas.

As for deadlifts/squats. I do have anterior pelvic tilt, so I have a real concern about completely **** my back by doing them. I'm not the most confident gym goer when it comes to trying knew things anyway, so it's one of those things that's hard to just start doing on your own when you don't know what you're doing.

I think it doesn't really matter what you're eating if you are eating too much to be honest, unless you are eating caloric negative food, but people can arrest me on that. 

And honestly I would skip the protein shakes. I am doing protein shakes myself, but that's because I very often are running a 1000 kcal a day on my workout days, so I add a shake just beef up my intake. Most people eat more calories than they need, and most of their food is pretty high in protein even if they don't know it, so it's unlikely you need protein shakes. Secondly if you wanna drop weight, why add more calories?

I can recommend getting a PT to help you on heavy lifts though. I've managed to learn most exercises solo, but especially dead lifts was difficult to me. But after having a PT session twice, I feel way more comfortable with it and I think my technique is spot on. And it's even increased my personal best.

Right now I am trying to learn the perfect ab wheel rollout, but for some reason I am feeling the exercise more in my arms and shoulders than stomach, so I am thinking of taking another PT session just for that. 

[kurtsimonw]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think it doesn't really matter what you're eating if you are eating too much to be honest, unless you are eating caloric negative food, but people can arrest me on that. 

And honestly I would skip the protein shakes. I am doing protein shakes myself, but that's because I very often are running a 1000 kcal a day on my workout days, so I add a shake just beef up my intake. Most people eat more calories than they need, and most of their food is pretty high in protein even if they don't know it, so it's unlikely you need protein shakes. Secondly if you wanna drop weight, why add more calories?

I can recommend getting a PT to help you on heavy lifts though. I've managed to learn most exercises solo, but especially dead lifts was difficult to me. But after having a PT session twice, I feel way more comfortable with it and I think my technique is spot on. And it's even increased my personal best.

Right now I am trying to learn the perfect ab wheel rollout, but for some reason I am feeling the exercise more in my arms and shoulders than stomach, so I am thinking of taking another PT session just for that. 

The reason I like to hit the numbers are because muscle is my main aim, and I know more muscle means you'll burn more fat during workouts, and muscle mass will also make you look less fat. Ultimately, I want to look better and feel better in myself. I wouldn't say I want to drop weight, just losing fat in certain areas, I find losing weight incredibly easy.

I do hate my height sometimes though, just being in a position to deadlift, squad, or even something as simple as pushups... I find them impossible and feel very awkward. I'm not even particularly weak, yet I can't do a single pushup.

[KenjiOgiwara]

I remember reading an article about someone doing the maths of how much you burned extra by X amount of muscle mass, but can't find it now for some reason. 

Anyway, I can just say from personal experience that when I weighed 89 kg (I am 170 cm tall) I was a bit fat, but I probably had the most muscle mass I've ever had. Right now I am fluctuating between 66-69 kg, and my lifts are starting to get back where they were, but I've never been as happy about my body. I don't know my fat percentage, between 10-15 somewhere, but having less focus on building muscle and eating and more focus on losing weight and lean build has made me look at lot better. Obviously looks are very subjective, but I wouldn't ignore trying a lean build until you've tried it. 

I also think I look more muscular and bigger with less fat and less muscle than more fat and more muscle. It's weird, but true. 

[AVFC_Hitz]

I'd echo the idea that diet is 90% in the kitchen. I started the keto diet on the 26th of February and I have lost 21kgs. I started combining the diet with the gym but I found I was getting really really hungry and almost torturing myself with hunger. I do more gentle exercises like walking and cycling and stick religiously to the diet. 

A normal day would be something like this:

Breakfast: Bulletproof coffee (tsp. coconut oil, tsp. butter blended with brewed coffee)

Lunch: 2  babybel and a 70g of roasted almonds

Dinner: usually a large portion of fatty meat and variations of green vegetables. 

I've stuck with this and its paid dividends. I hope to be 99kg by September 1st. 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, AVFC_Hitz said:

I'd echo the idea that diet is 90% in the kitchen. I started the keto diet on the 26th of February and I have lost 21kgs. I started combining the diet with the gym but I found I was getting really really hungry and almost torturing myself with hunger. I do more gentle exercises like walking and cycling and stick religiously to the diet. 

A normal day would be something like this:

Breakfast: Bulletproof coffee (tsp. coconut oil, tsp. butter blended with brewed coffee)

Lunch: 2  babybel and a 70g of roasted almonds

Dinner: usually a large portion of fatty meat and variations of green vegetables. 

I've stuck with this and its paid dividends. I hope to be 99kg by September 1st. 

Talk to me about this Bulletproof coffee I keep hearing people mentioning. 

What is it? (i know you've said what it is there, but why is it getting popular?)

[KenjiOgiwara]

3 minutes ago, AVFC_Hitz said:

I'd echo the idea that diet is 90% in the kitchen. I started the keto diet on the 26th of February and I have lost 21kgs. I started combining the diet with the gym but I found I was getting really really hungry and almost torturing myself with hunger. I do more gentle exercises like walking and cycling and stick religiously to the diet. 

A normal day would be something like this:

Breakfast: Bulletproof coffee (tsp. coconut oil, tsp. butter blended with brewed coffee)

Lunch: 2  babybel and a 70g of roasted almonds

Dinner: usually a large portion of fatty meat and variations of green vegetables. 

I've stuck with this and its paid dividends. I hope to be 99kg by September 1st. 

This sounds so much like the diet I did. I am not sure I ever entered ketoses mind, but I remember thinking my piss smelled really sweet at times, so I suspected it. 

I also think the advantage with cutting out the gym while dieting is that once you have reached a weight you're comfortable with you can start working out and when you work out you can add more calories to your day, thus you won't gain the pounds back on. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[kurtsimonw]

14 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I remember reading an article about someone doing the maths of how much you burned extra by X amount of muscle mass, but can't find it now for some reason. 

Anyway, I can just say from personal experience that when I weighed 89 kg (I am 170 cm tall) I was a bit fat, but I probably had the most muscle mass I've ever had. Right now I am fluctuating between 66-69 kg, and my lifts are starting to get back where they were, but I've never been as happy about my body. I don't know my fat percentage, between 10-15 somewhere, but having less focus on building muscle and eating and more focus on losing weight and lean build has made me look at lot better. Obviously looks are very subjective, but I wouldn't ignore trying a lean build until you've tried it. 

I also think I look more muscular and bigger with less fat and less muscle than more fat and more muscle. It's weird, but true. 

I'm crap with terminology - a lean build would be?

I'm 6'4", weight exactly 200 pounds. Apparently my body fat is around 21% - but I don't know if my scales are correct or not. The idea of seeing how I look now, and losing 20 pounds of fat, seems impossible.

[El Zen]

Sounds like you need to focus on weights for what you want to achieve. I personally prefer the big barbell excercises and have found Stronglifts extremely effective in the past. However, if you have good reasons to avoid those lifts, there are plenty of ways to do it and I’m sure a good personal trainer could help you. If you don’t mind looking like a complete tit, I find kettlebells are a decent way to get a fairly effective all round workout without risking injury. 

I can totally relate to the feeling skinny but having certain areas you want to firm up. I’m also tall, and body weight work outs are hard for me too. I think you can rest assured this is entirely normal, though. To have the body of a professional athlete, in your 30s, working full time, requires a level of dedication it would be unfair to expect from oneself. Personally, I can’t see how I could even spend three nights a week in the gym right now. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

You are a big bastard. People like you are so lucky cause you have the potential to look like a monster. I can hope that I might some day look like a slightly muscular hobbit. 

Not sure what the definition of lean build is, but I always use it about having a low fat body composition. I'd argue anything below 12% fat is pretty lean, I might be a bit fatter than that, but I feel pretty lean as well. 

I have to point out that using the Gym machines for fat percentage is highly misleading. According to the US army measurement maths I had a BF% in April around 14/15%, yet the Bioelectrical impedance machine at the gym had me down at 10% body fat. 

I bet if I did they same test now it would have me down at 9% body fat when I am likely around 13/14%. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[AVFC_Hitz]

37 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Talk to me about this Bulletproof coffee I keep hearing people mentioning. 

What is it? (i know you've said what it is there, but why is it getting popular?)

My take on it is that it's a high fat start to the day without physically eating something. It's meant to give your metabolism a kick start as well as energy. It keeps me full til lunch and it tastes nice. It's very simple to make, too.

Tbh I'm not an expert but it's working for me.

[kurtsimonw]

47 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You are a big bastard. People like you are so lucky cause you have the potential to look like a monster. I can hope that I might some day look like a slightly muscular hobbit. 

Not sure what the definition of lean build is, but I always use it about having a low fat body composition. I'd argue anything below 12% fat is pretty lean, I might be a bit fatter than that, but I feel pretty lean as well. 

I have to point out that using the Gym machines for fat percentage is highly misleading. According to the US army measurement maths I had a BF% in April around 14/15%, yet the Bioelectrical impedance machine at the gym had me down at 10% body fat. 

I bet if I did they same test now it would have me down at 9% body fat when I am likely around 13/14%. 

I don't even care about looking like a monster, I just want to look decent, but I really hate how I look right now. 

Do you think it's basically impossible to build a bit of muscle while getting down in body fat % then? Am I going to need to do muscle first, then try and lose fat, or the other way around?

[Stevo985]

39 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

 

Do you think it's basically impossible to build a bit of muscle while getting down in body fat % then? Am I going to need to do muscle first, then try and lose fat, or the other way around?

It's not impossible but it's very difficult. It's basically contrasting approaches.

You need more calories than you require to build muscle and you need less calories than required to lose fat. It's not impossible to do both, but clearly from that it's hard.

The good news is that if you're a relative beginner with heavy weights then you'll usually put on a fair bit of beginner muscle whilst losing weight. Everyone is different but I believe that's pretty common.

[KenjiOgiwara]

It's not impossible that's a fact. 

BUT I think people are doing themselves a disservice (or what it's called) by having that focus. Say you wanted to look more toned, more defined muscular body. It's much easier to drop 10 kg fast (say over 2-6 months by a good well disciplined diet) then change up to lifting hard after hitting the ideal weight. Than trying to do both at the same time, in my experience. 

People experience this differently, but I tried both ways and couldn't reach my goal without skipping the gym completely and have 100% nutrition/diet focus. Maybe another way works the best for you. 

Personally I get so incredibly hungry by hitting the gym, I struggled losing enough weight. I Gymming seriously while being in calori deficit is very very difficult. Especially when you have a job to prioritize.