The Arab Spring and "the War on Terror"

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'barbarians are wiped out'?

 

A terrorist organisation is often a matter of perspective. The PKK are a good example of how sometimes things are not so black and white, particularly now as they're proving very effective in stopping the IS advance northwards.

 

Barbarism, however, is a good adjective to describe IS actions. Anybody who has seen the video I posted the other day or has seen some of the other footage since will come to the same conclusion. Its they're brand of post-Wahhabist Takfiri in action; an ideology of comply or die. What they're doing in that video and to their opponents in general (which includes Sunnis) has more in common with what the Mongol's did to the region in the 13th century.

 

The second element of rendelc post is also something I agree with; they need to be destroyed. They only way they can be destroyed, and it's what everybody knows but people are refusing to acknowledge, is via ground forces. You cannot destroy IS ability to wage war from the air. They're a divisional size force, very flexible and able to manoeuvre with surprising effectiveness at battalion level thanks to the kit they have lifted off the Iraqi Army and the Saddam staff officers that have filled their ranks.

 

Obama wants a local solution, and it part he is correct. Nobody has an appetite to fight a ten year plus insurgency again, but then this isn't an insurgency, it's more than that. We would need to stop their ability to function as a cohesive, if irregular, military body, to stop their self-funding via exporting oil through Turkey ($800 million across July and early August) then we might have reduced them to insurgency level.

[chrisp65]

You'd expect it all to be a bit quieter over there today, being deadline day and all that.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don't see the relevance in the point in attempting to conflate what IS is doing as being in anyway equivolent to actions by the US. Comparisons with Saudi Arabia are of course relevant; they're one of IS fathers and have a share of the fundamental Wahhabist view of "our way, or your head", only taken further than Wahhabism as SA know it because IS denies the core pillar of being subservient to the house of Saud, again this is IS stated political position.

There is no current equivalence for what they're doing. The media, far from being part of some machine intent on eroding your civil liberties is vastly underreporting what they're doing. They have death camps in al Raqqa where captured Syrian Army are being murdered by the truck load on a regular basis. I mean that quite literally. It comes down to an Iraqi Kurd being decapitated in front of a Mosque not being as newsworthy as poor James Foley.

IS have been strengthened by the men who kept Saddam ticking over. We didn't kill them when we opened the Box on this post 2003 or when they fought under the flag of AQII post 2004, and now they're busy setting up infrastructure for soft government and doing their best to annihlate their apostate enemies and those Sunnis that won't comply.

*Warning: Highly Graphic Content*

https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4

That's a taste for what they're doing. That's not media hyperbole and it's nearly two months old. Since then, more civilians have been killed in Iraq in August than were destroyed by the IDFs concept of total war.

I have just watched that video and iam disgusted..they drive around and kill people for fun, they shoot people in the arms and legs then walk up to them and exchange some words before they empty the whole magazine on him.

Like i said before they cant possible be humans or they must be so high on drugs they have no idea what they are doing.

Me myself is not capable of killing another human being, i could not even kill an animal, So watching this is just shocking.

Yes war makes people do horrible things.

[coda]

 

 

I don't see the relevance in the point in attempting to conflate what IS is doing as being in anyway equivolent to actions by the US. Comparisons with Saudi Arabia are of course relevant; they're one of IS fathers and have a share of the fundamental Wahhabist view of "our way, or your head", only taken further than Wahhabism as SA know it because IS denies the core pillar of being subservient to the house of Saud, again this is IS stated political position.

There is no current equivalence for what they're doing. The media, far from being part of some machine intent on eroding your civil liberties is vastly underreporting what they're doing. They have death camps in al Raqqa where captured Syrian Army are being murdered by the truck load on a regular basis. I mean that quite literally. It comes down to an Iraqi Kurd being decapitated in front of a Mosque not being as newsworthy as poor James Foley.

IS have been strengthened by the men who kept Saddam ticking over. We didn't kill them when we opened the Box on this post 2003 or when they fought under the flag of AQII post 2004, and now they're busy setting up infrastructure for soft government and doing their best to annihlate their apostate enemies and those Sunnis that won't comply.

*Warning: Highly Graphic Content*

https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4

That's a taste for what they're doing. That's not media hyperbole and it's nearly two months old. Since then, more civilians have been killed in Iraq in August than were destroyed by the IDFs concept of total war.

I have just watched that video and iam disgusted..they drive around and kill people for fun, they shoot people in the arms and legs then walk up to them and exchange some words before they empty the whole magazine on him.

Like i said before they cant possible be humans or they must be so high on drugs they have no idea what they are doing.

Me myself is not capable of killing another human being, i could not even kill an animal, So watching this is just shocking.

Yes war makes people do horrible things.

 

 

I think 'war allows people to do horrible things' is more accurate.

[Ikantcpell]

 

 

I don't see the relevance in the point in attempting to conflate what IS is doing as being in anyway equivolent to actions by the US. Comparisons with Saudi Arabia are of course relevant; they're one of IS fathers and have a share of the fundamental Wahhabist view of "our way, or your head", only taken further than Wahhabism as SA know it because IS denies the core pillar of being subservient to the house of Saud, again this is IS stated political position.

There is no current equivalence for what they're doing. The media, far from being part of some machine intent on eroding your civil liberties is vastly underreporting what they're doing. They have death camps in al Raqqa where captured Syrian Army are being murdered by the truck load on a regular basis. I mean that quite literally. It comes down to an Iraqi Kurd being decapitated in front of a Mosque not being as newsworthy as poor James Foley.

IS have been strengthened by the men who kept Saddam ticking over. We didn't kill them when we opened the Box on this post 2003 or when they fought under the flag of AQII post 2004, and now they're busy setting up infrastructure for soft government and doing their best to annihlate their apostate enemies and those Sunnis that won't comply.

*Warning: Highly Graphic Content*

https://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4

That's a taste for what they're doing. That's not media hyperbole and it's nearly two months old. Since then, more civilians have been killed in Iraq in August than were destroyed by the IDFs concept of total war.

I have just watched that video and iam disgusted..they drive around and kill people for fun, they shoot people in the arms and legs then walk up to them and exchange some words before they empty the whole magazine on him.

Like i said before they cant possible be humans or they must be so high on drugs they have no idea what they are doing.

Me myself is not capable of killing another human being, i could not even kill an animal, So watching this is just shocking.

Yes war makes people do horrible things.

 

And still they travel in their thousands from peaceful Europe and all over the world to join in the slaughter..

 

Very strange that..

[Rugeley Villa]

even white people who aint got a grain of muslim in them are going over to join the bastards.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I just watched some of that video. Pretty horrific shit.

What a world we live in hey?

[maqroll]

We live in Hell

[chrisp65]

used to be worse

[LondonLax]

used to be worse

 

Yep, though before we didn't have high speed broadband so we didn't know about it.

[TrentVilla]

We live in Hell

 

Don't fret, there will be a new baby Jesus along soon he will sort everything out oh and his dad will drown everyone.

 

used to be worse

 

Yep, though before we didn't have high speed broadband so we didn't know about it.

 

 

Yeah not having high speed broadband certainly made things worse

[Vive_La_Villa]

I've know doubt it used to be a lot worst in the past but seeing shootings first hand that way is pretty shocking. I don't get why IS even make videos like that. Is that going to get them support.

Unless they didn't make them? Just makes no sense.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I doubt those videos win people over to their cause, it is more likely that they simply reinforce the views of people already interested. The question is what leads them to believe in IS's cause in the first place, although I think quite a number are opportunist mercenaries & a good number more just fancy a bit of killing.

 

 

 

 

[chrisp65]

 seeing shootings first hand that way is pretty shocking.     I don't get why IS even make videos like that.

 

You answered your own question before you even asked it.

 

I've developed a technique for not being offended, shocked, scared, scarred or terrorised by these death porn videos. I can tell you how it works if you like. What I do is, I don't click play.

 

The method of death is largely irrelevant. Given a choice of living in comparative freedom, or death by Israeli drone, IRA pub bomb, Shining Path assassination or IS random shooting or decapitation there is one clear winner. The method of death is simply there to scare people into giving up. The same as Guernica, the same as Pol Pot the same as Hiroshima, dominate the minds of the opposition to a point they give up before you have to actually fight them.

 

The trick is, I guess, to be an informed liberal without being 'soft' and falling under the spell of the terrorist or the right wing politicians.

[TrentVilla]

I've know doubt it used to be a lot worst in the past but seeing shootings first hand that way is pretty shocking. I don't get why IS even make videos like that. Is that going to get them support.

Unless they didn't make them? Just makes no sense.

 

Two reasons. Fear and recruitment.

 

There will be some that will be attracted to the cause by those video's/images, sad but true, which is why they have people from all kinds of nations out there doing these things.

 

But the biggest reason is fear, not to generate fear in the West but fear in the hearts of those that might oppose them or that live in the territories that they are taking over. 

 

These sort of video's have helped clear huge chunks of land for them, they have displaced thousands of people and they have helped cause 'professional' Iraqi and Syrian troops to leave their posts and make IS task far easier.

 

Its propaganda, in its most modern and sick form and its serving them well seemingly.

[lapal_fan]

Thing is though, you can either leave the area you live in - they win.

 

Or you can stay and get shot - they win.

 

Or you can hide and stay in the area, but can't do anything because of the fear of getting killed - they win.

 

Or you can hide, but get caught and then killed - they win.

 

Or lastly, you join them - they win.

 

For a civilian, we don't have any **** choice in the matter, you either fight and probably lose, or you flee, in which case they win anyway.

 

Big ass ARMY needed.

[chrisp65]

Yes, agreed lapal fan, and that is why we need organised modern society that is consensual with shared purpose.

 

In the UK we have a population in broad agreement of most things, we have an organised tax system and an army and police force that are there to serve us. We have organised ourselves to provide clean drinking water. Putting it uber simplistically, that is a chunk of the reason why we got through several wars, the blitz, victorian anarchism etc..

 

Iraq, Libya, Syria etc.. are not like that, no common purpose and no genuine consensus. They are fakes. So when there is pressure, it cracks.

 

That is why their army cannot help them and that is why, in the long term, our army stopping today's fighting is not really any sort of long term plan.

 

When you consider that, and you put yourself in the shoes of a young unemployed male, or a family, or a widowed mother. Would you risk staying, fighting. or would you get  in an open boat and hope the Italians or Maltese find you?  

[Ads]

That video is a part of their religious/political message; you're with us or we will kill you. It echoes 19th century Wahabbist teachings.

 

Their recruitment is decent because, depending on reports, they pay anywhere between $300 and $600 dollars a month to their soldiers. If you used to have a big moustache, with some Ray Bans and a beret under Saddam, until Bremer cut your wage and your pension in 2003 by dissolving the Iraqi Army, then that's a very attractive job for you. Remove IS ability to self-fund and you'll also undermine their ability to wage war.

 

Keeping them static for a time will also help erode their kit supply, while being degraded from the air. It's still going to take boots on the ground to remove them though.

 

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ads

[Awol]

As expected, IS have apparently released a video of them decapitating another American hostage called Steven Sotloff.

Obviously haven't watched it but the murderer was apparently the charming chap from southern England who beheaded the first American hostage. I really hope that when he eventually dies it's not a clean or painless affair.

Edit: just to add, the guy with the knife said the next innocent person up for the chop is a Brit. Wonder if they'll get an American IS member to do it, or whether the usual guy will be cutting the head off someone from his own street/town/country?

I'm also getting pissed off with journos and politicians talking about de-radicalising returning Brit's who fought "alongside" IS. They didn't fight alongside IS terrorists, they ARE IS terrorists - and seemingly very proud of it too.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Awol

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I had read elsewhere that the English executioner is IS chief head chopper. If it's the same guy, then that would confirm it. About time somebody dropped a Paveway on him.