Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 "If you have the ball the other team can't score". And if you do nothing with the ball you won't score. And we saw what drawing too many games did last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 You can't compare a potential season where we keep the ball more due to having players like Makoun in the team, to last season where we ended up drawing far too many games despite not having the majority of possession for most of our games. The main positives to ball retention, as others have said, are that if you have possession, even if you're not creating scoring chances, the opposition can't score without the ball. Another positive is that the longer you have the ball, the more opportunities you get to threaten the oppositions goal. Everybody should watch Spain in their final group game. These guys are the masters of ball retention, but chances are they're not going to win something silly like 10-0. They'll create opportunities but they won't always score from them. In a 90 minute match where they will generally dominate possession, they will score a few goals. The rest of the time they will pass it around a lot, back and forth with no other purpose than to retain possession and to tire out and frustrate their opponents. I can't believe that anyone wouldn't want us to retain the ball better, it's just madness. I'd take "possession-style" football over "soak up the pressure and tempt fate before launching a counter-attack" style football any day because soaking up the pressure tires out your players more and if the opposition are constantly attacking then you run the risk of them scoring against you. It's an old and dated reactionary style of football that I have no love for and doesn't bring sustained success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 "If you have the ball the other team can't score". And if you do nothing with the ball you won't score. And we saw what drawing too many games did last season.Obviously. Problem is we hardly had the ball last season. It was one of the main reasons why we dropped so many points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can't believe that anyone wouldn't want us to retain the ball better, it's just madness Well speaking for myself, i would like that. But i want it to be better ball retention with an attacking purpose. All i'm saying is that i don't think its guaranteed that makoun will be a star player for that at this level. He's being spoken about like he's a proven top midfield player in the premier league and he's done little to impress 3 managers of aston villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well speaking for myself, though I suspect others feel the same, I think you're going to extremes with regards to how some of us feel about Makoun. No-one is saying he is a star player, we're just saying that he has something a bit different to our other midfielders and we would like to see him given more of a chance considering he's barely played any games for us. I also think that if we keep Makoun and buy another centre-midfielder, perhaps a more defensive minded player who can also pass quite well, and play Ireland in the CAM role, we could have players in the middle of the park who could keep possession and string some fluid passing together to create more opportunities. I think it's a little unfair to judge Makoun due to the lack of game time he's had and also some of the players in midfield he has had to play with who maybe aren't quite up to his level passing-wise. You can be the best passer of the ball ever but if the players you're passing to don't read the game well and don't make the right runs or think as quickly as you do, then it won't matter. I'm just saying we should give him another chance and see who else Lambert brings in and how he sets us up to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Makoun was never given a chance by McLeish because he can pass the ball and everyone knows that McLeish only wanted hoofers. He may now get a chance with Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Sadly he won't be staying. Foreign flair players will be off the menu now we've employed MON Lite. It'll be British all the way. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I always thought that Makoun might have left because he never really settled in at Villa. Then you take away a French manager and it probably makes it a hell of a lot harder for him because he does not speak a lick of English. Maybe now though he will have N'Zogbia there and that could help him settle better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Then you take away a French manager and it probably makes it a hell of a lot harder for him because he does not speak a lick of English. Well he has had 18 months to learn and given the amount of down time footballers have he should have a very good grasp of it by now. Based on what I have seen of him, which is every minute he has played in a Villa shirt, then I really couldn't give two monkeys **** if he stays or goes. If the lad is happy to give it another go though and Lambert thinks he can get something out of him then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Sadly he won't be staying. Foreign flair players will be off the menu now we've employed MON Lite. It'll be British all the way. :cry: So becuase they both wear glasses and have similar mannerisms his coaching and transfer policy will be the same as MONs? Do a bit of research first, then please come back and correct this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can't believe that anyone wouldn't want us to retain the ball better, it's just madness. I'd take "possession-style" football over "soak up the pressure and tempt fate before launching a counter-attack" style football any day because soaking up the pressure tires out your players more and if the opposition are constantly attacking then you run the risk of them scoring against you. It's an old and dated reactionary style of football that I have no love for and doesn't bring sustained success. Stop MONning on about MON you MONning MON MON. Jesus H MON on MONher MONking bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Sadly he won't be staying. Foreign flair players will be off the menu now we've employed MON Lite. It'll be British all the way. :cry: So becuase they both wear glasses and have similar mannerisms his coaching and transfer policy will be the same as MONs? Do a bit of research first, then please come back and correct this statement. to be fair he is know as Martin O'Neill lite in scotland. The footballing style, as well as a bit of the background are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Sadly he won't be staying. Foreign flair players will be off the menu now we've employed MON Lite. It'll be British all the way. :cry: So becuase they both wear glasses and have similar mannerisms his coaching and transfer policy will be the same as MONs? Do a bit of research first, then please come back and correct this statement. to be fair he is know as Martin O'Neill lite in scotland. The footballing style, as well as a bit of the background are similar. Again just minor similarities. The footballing style isn't the same....to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 It seems a myth on here that Lambert plays flowing, passing football. See the goals against us for an idea of the type of football we'll be playing. It certainly isn't passing football. It's crossing, balls into the box etc. Alas I think Makoun will be surplus to requirements. Norwich had the 3rd least possession in the league last season. That's very low for a team that finished 12th. As per MON it will be percentage football. Better than Mcleish ? Yes, will it make us great? No. Hence I can't join Lambert celebrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Norwich had the 3rd least possession in the league last season. That's very low for a team that finished 12th. As per MON it will be percentage football. Better than Mcleish ? Yes, will it make us great? No. Hence I can't join Lambert celebrations. They were 14th in the possession stat table above Villa, Baggies, QPR, Sunderland, Stoke and Blackburn. Norwich were also the 7th highest top goal scorers, if that type of play gets us goals then I don't really care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Where were we in the possession table under MON? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 sorry read it wrong, will update in a sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I think this thread may be drifting away from its subject! But, while we're on possession, it is not on its own a very reliable guide to effectiveness or quality of football. Last season, Wigan had eighth highest possession but were poor for most of the season and finished 15th in the real league table. Newcastle, who were one place lower than Wigan on possession, finished 5th. In one notable game last season, Swansea at home to Newcastle had 77% possession but lost 0-2. What is more important is scoring goals and, even more crucially, winning games. If the hero worship for Makoun is based on the assumption (a) that he will turn Villa into a high possession team and ( this will automatically mean we start winning more games, then the reality is (a) he almost certainly won't and ( it simply doesn't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I think this thread may be drifting away from its subject! But, while we're on possession, it is not on its own a very reliable guide to effectiveness or quality of football. Last season, Wigan had eighth highest possession but were poor for most of the season and finished 15th in the real league table. Newcastle, who were one place lower than Wigan on possession, finished 5th. In one notable game last season, Swansea at home to Newcastle had 77% possession but lost 0-2. What is more important is scoring goals and, even more crucially, winning games. If the hero worship for Makoun is based on the assumption (a) that he will turn Villa into a high possession team and ( this will automatically mean we start winning more games, then the reality is (a) he almost certainly won't and ( it simply doesn't follow. Genuine question, where did Newcastle finish in the possession table? What hero worship for Makoun? I've seen none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 If the hero worship for Makoun is based on the assumption (a) that he will turn Villa into a high possession team and ( this will automatically mean we start winning more games, then the reality is (a) he almost certainly won't and ( it simply doesn't follow. Firstly, just because some posters are willing to give Makoun another shot doesn't mean they worship him as a hero, you're just going to extremes there for some reason and it's daft. Secondly, no-one is expecting Makoun to be the catalyst to suddenly turn us into a high possession team, it would just be nice to give him another go since he's barely played any games for us and he could potentially improve us. You're right, possession isn't everything, but as I said earlier, more possession means less chances for the opposition to score, and the opportunity to create more chances for yourself. If we can get Makoun, Ireland, N'Zogbia or any other creative types we may sign in the summer playing well and creating lots of goal scoring opportunities for Darren Bent then it can only be a good thing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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