David-Copenhagen Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 That is true based on the fact that we did come in 6 place last year - but how did the team play in the last half of the season? We played some of the worst football and barely scrapped home 6 place. We have taken that form with us into this year and then had a lot of injuries. Maybe the squad is just not so good after all?? I don't think it's fair to say we scraped 6th place. Wasn't it only in game 37 (of 38) that we lost out on 4th spot? I think it would be more accurate to say that we were pipped at the post for a CL spot.I agree it is wrong to say we played "the worst" football towards the end of last season. If you split the season into two, our results were: 1st half Pl19 W10 D5 L4 F29 A17 Pts35 2nd half Pl19 W7 D8 L4 F23 A22 Pts 29 So there was a falling away in the second half of the season where we slipped from the fourth place we were in after 19 games. But it was hardly a disastrous slide - and the second half of last season was far better than the first half of this - if only we'd have had 29 points and a positive goal difference at the halfway stage tghis season - we'd have been 7th! Gazton's recollection is on the other hand a bit rosy. At game 36 last season we were 5th, with the same points as Spurs, but we slipped to sixth with two defeats in the last two games (the first to Man C, who pipped us to 5th). To say this season is just a continuation of the form of the second half of last season is way off line. This season is a COMPLETE DISASTER compared with I can't even remember when. Look I don't think we disagree that much, what I said was that we took the "poorer" form from 2 half with us into this season + all the injuries has hit us hard. We are 9 point worse off and we have had basically everyone out with injuries and 3 managers! The results are not abysmal, but I know that we are looking very bad now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 [The results are not abysmal, but I know that we are looking very bad now. Results not abysmal? 3 wins in 16 league games under Houllier, 7 defeats and one win in last 9 games, worst defensive record and second worst away record in league. If thats not abysmal then what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Exactly Mark. The thing which puzzle's me about those thinking we should keep Houllier is this: What exactly would make these people want him out? When we're relegated and not before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Perhaps there are some who believe we will stay up and want to see him what he can do after a few transfers, a few new faces and belief we will be safe from relegation is enough for some people at least until the end of the season. I'm not far off that view, I think we should appoint someone until the end of the season but that's extremely unlikely and he's not going to get sacked anyway so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Caught between a rock and a hard place to be honest. Part of me thinks he should be sacked as he's been shite, doesn't know how to motivate the players, has alienated a lot of our senior players and most of our fan base, and has taken us into the relegation zone for the first time in years. Another part of me thinks that regardless of what's going on at the moment, he's still the most qualified, most high profile manager we've had in years. He's had to deal with a squad hit by the worst injury crisis since time began, and is only just starting to get a full strength squad back. His biggest error has been in trying to play complex, possession football with technically poor players. He should have stuck to the MON system until he had chance to get more technically accomplished players, so things could pick up after january. Either way, sacking him now would almost guarantee us relegation as it would put the club through further turmoil, further cripple our confidence, cost us the January transfer window etc. etc. I'm not worried about relegation, maybe that's arrogance, so I'm willing to back him for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudley_villa Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 There is 97 noses on here somewhere!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My opinion hasn't softened. Should have been sacked by now.O'Leary was right, we are fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb_wm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My feelings too John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Why? because they don't hold the same opinion as you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My opinion hasn't softened. Should have been sacked by now.O'Leary was right, we are fickle. Well, we are fickle. But in an age of football where neither players nor managers show any devotion or loyalty to a club, why shoud supporters show loyalty to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyvilla18 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Caught between a rock and a hard place to be honest. Part of me thinks he should be sacked as he's been shite, doesn't know how to motivate the players, has alienated a lot of our senior players and most of our fan base, and has taken us into the relegation zone for the first time in years. Another part of me thinks that regardless of what's going on at the moment, he's still the most qualified, most high profile manager we've had in years. He's had to deal with a squad hit by the worst injury crisis since time began, and is only just starting to get a full strength squad back. His biggest error has been in trying to play complex, possession football with technically poor players. He should have stuck to the MON system until he had chance to get more technically accomplished players, so things could pick up after january. Either way, sacking him now would almost guarantee us relegation as it would put the club through further turmoil, further cripple our confidence, cost us the January transfer window etc. etc. I'm not worried about relegation, maybe that's arrogance, so I'm willing to back him for now. Agree with this i think you have to give a manager at least one window and a fully fit squad. people go on about Ramos at Spurs but he had added his own players and moved players on etc. I am slighly worried but two 3 wins and everyone will say how well GH has done turning it around/stopping the rot and be looking at snatching a euro place off bolton or sunderland imo. However football as Roy Keane has said is a results business and GH has not been getting results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I thought his original appointment was just about the best we could do at that time, although the health issue concerned me. I then got more concerned when I read that his preferred choices for assistant didn't want to join him. It is clear that he has had it tough. Nothing seems to have gone right for him and that makes me feel sorry for him and want to give him more time. The sympathy for him seemed to wain for me when he did what he did at Anfield. I also then look at all the reports of the bust ups with players and that makes me feel less sorry for him as well. I understand that a manager wants to do things his own way but why do people always feel the need to change things if they don't really need changing? If there were problems with players behind the scenes, why not wait until the correct time to deal with them? Like now and in the summer! We are in the bottom three and he has to take a huge amount of the blame for that. He is not totally to blame, we all know that, but he is hugely to blame IMO. The team selection for some of the games has been strange. I liked the line up against Chelsea and Sunderland but would have changed a couple of things around. I would have swapped Gabby with Downing at Chelsea. Simply because i recall Gabby's performance against Chelsea at Villa Park when we beat them last season. He moved out wide right and stopped Cole from getting forward and I thought it would have been better with him out on the right. Wednesday night i thought we would have been better with Gabby behind Heskey and Young back on the right with Downing on the left. Young is so much better out wide and Downing is a different player on the left. I would even like to see Downing playing behind a striker but not wide right. There is no doubt in my mind that Heskey was hugely to blame for the defeat. He should have scored at least once and was totally stupid for getting himself sent off. However, waiting so long to make a change was just ridiculous. Then, when he did make a change, he had Bannan and Young at centre back and all of our other defenders up front!! I guess he was hoping for a knock down to fall to one of them or for one of them to win a header etc but surely you want your quality players at the top end of the pitch, not at the back! Sorry but I found that absolutely baffling and cannot accept that as a sign of good management. I have been recently been suggesting that a new manager is the best way for our team to survive a relegation battle. I still think that would be the better option. However, if Houllier stays i will support him as I would any other manager. I just hope that Randy backs him because he clearly needs a new group of players as the ones he currently manages have issues with him. Whether or not the new players will like him is a different matter altogether as that is not guaranteed either! I just saw his press conference on tv and I must say that I admire his cockyness. He clearly thinks he is untouchable because of what he is hearing behind the scenes. I do find it mindboggling how he can say that he is "delighted" to belong to a 4 man club who are danger of losing their jobs. Then he goes on about togetherness. I would have thought that falling out with the players and upsetting people is not really doing much to aid togetherness to be honest! He really needs to be a bit more serious about the position he and Aston Villa are in because that cocky attitude is going to make him look completely stupid if he does fail to keep us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bose Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I still think he should be sacked but there is not much we can do if the board are all set on keeping him despite everything. The only thing we can do is hope he miraculously turns things around and gets a few good players in. If the performances and attitude lately aren't enough to make Randy change his mind on Houllier I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conorm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Caught between a rock and a hard place to be honest. Part of me thinks he should be sacked as he's been shite, doesn't know how to motivate the players, has alienated a lot of our senior players and most of our fan base, and has taken us into the relegation zone for the first time in years. Another part of me thinks that regardless of what's going on at the moment, he's still the most qualified, most high profile manager we've had in years. He's had to deal with a squad hit by the worst injury crisis since time began, and is only just starting to get a full strength squad back. His biggest error has been in trying to play complex, possession football with technically poor players. He should have stuck to the MON system until he had chance to get more technically accomplished players, so things could pick up after january. Either way, sacking him now would almost guarantee us relegation as it would put the club through further turmoil, further cripple our confidence, cost us the January transfer window etc. etc. I'm not worried about relegation, maybe that's arrogance, so I'm willing to back him for now. I agree with this. I think there has been some bad luck with injuries although I also think there has been a little complacency (similar to your feeling of "arrogance", I don't think anyone at the club truly believed we were heading for a relegation battle) but I think we will turn it round and Houllier could be a success in the long term. Much of the motivation on here to sack him is emotional - notably the Anfield debacle and the 8th-12th place club comment - and that really isn't the criteria that will clinch the decision. That is why I think it is a moot point at this stage. I am a Villa fan who has voted to back him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I might be wrong but has Albrighton started a game since it was alluded to that he and Houllier had an argument after the Mancity game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2011 My opinion hasn't softened. Should have been sacked by now.O'Leary was right, we are fickle. No he wasn't and no we aren't. Certainly not me, I don't think I've at any point liked Houllier and only hoped he might prove me wrong, and that was only because that would be good for us. As it is, since Liverpool at least I've been quite staunch in 'sack him' opinion. So not really fickle at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icklevillan Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I want rid. I've never had an ounce of affection for Liverpool (or especially) their fans, so I was mortified by the comment. Him leading us into a relegation battle hasn't helped. I just have this feeling he will get us relegated, shrug his shoulders, and then leave thinking 'Oh well, I gave it a go.' I don't think he's got any passion for the club at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 regular_john, you make some very good points. The first line sums up where we are for me "between a rock and a hard place", I think it was something I quoted myself previously! Too many people think its too cut and dry that sacking him will be an instant fix for our current problems and keeping him will guarentee relegation. Unfortunately its not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Perhaps it's time to again look at the stated facts about Houllier: Q1: Were the team performing well under Kevin Mac A1: No. Q2: Were the team performing well pre-season under MON: A2: No. Q3: Did Houliier have chance to put things in order pre-season: A3: No. Q4: Was Houllier involved in the Milner-Ireland switch: A4: No. Q5: Has the team suffered considerable injury problems: A5: Yes. Q6: Until now, has Houllier had chance to make purchases: A6: No. Q7: Has Houllier the right to sort out the lackies in the team: A7: Yes ---------- The only issues against Houllier that I can make out are: 1. Matters re: his alleged allegiance to Liverpool (which I feel fans misunderstand, but perhaps that's me) 2. Failure to sort out the concession of goals in the last 10 minutes (which is perhaps the most serious) 3. His age and length of time out of the Prem (neither of which are his fault, and age is hardly a barrier) Anything I've missed apart from personal dislikes? :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bred Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ^^ pretty much how I see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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