Bolitics The New Condem Government

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Burn it all, poncey politicians.

Too much jibber jabber and not enough action. "We have a problem Mr Cameron, 3/10 people said they didn't like this proposal according to the opinion polls" "Damn it Clegg, we must re-write it again and again until those 3 people can't quite understand what's going on but decide to like it in order to feel intelligent and politically active" "Brilliant idea ol' chap".

[Ads]

Anti-politician rhetoric has always just passed me by.

[mykeyb]

5 minutes in this thread has just reminded me why I dont read it very often.

Not read 1 balanced unbiased comment in the last couple of pages (which is as far back as I wanted to go)

[soprano]

Balanced unbiased comments make for :yawn:

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes in this thread has just reminded me why I dont read it very often.

Not read 1 balanced unbiased comment in the last couple of pages (which is as far back as I wanted to go)

The entire point of this ste is people to express opinion, opinion is always going to come from a view point and thus have an element of bias.

If not nobody would post anything, would they.

[mykeyb]

Trent I understand that people will have a "certain" viewpoint, not just in this thread but concerning transfer targets, formations, MON or whatever.

In this thread there hasnt been one element of debate or discussion. Peoples political views are if anything more "one eyed" than they are about Villa.

You are much more likely to catch a poster saying that Blues did well last season than you are to catch a pro-labour supporter praising anything that the Con-dems do and vice versa.

I am all for a political debate and should this thread at any time actually enter into one I may well join in.

If this thread exists for the few who do post regularly to try and score points then thats fine and wont be back, if however its to embrace all VT members and for a genuine political forum then in my humble opinion its failing.

[snowychap]

In this thread there hasnt been one element of debate or discussion.

Sorry, mate, but I'd say that kind of exaggeration doesn't help, either.

It certainly doesn't help those people who try and discuss things and whose contribution is then ignored by a comment like this.

I'd say that the posts on the previous page, for example, about the suggested NHS reforms from Trent, me and Ads (whilst understanding that we each have our own inherent biases) were an example of discussing the issue at hand.

[TrentVilla]

In this thread there hasnt been one element of debate or discussion.

Sorry, mate, but I'd say that kind of exaggeration doesn't help, either.

It certainly doesn't help those people who try and discuss things and whose contribution is then ignored by a comment like this.

I'd say that the posts on the previous page, for example, about the suggested NHS reforms from Trent, me and Ads (whilst understanding that we each have our own inherent biases) were an example of discussing the issue at hand.

So would I, in fact a perfect example of a reasonable discussion has been derailed by this accusation. Go figure.

[Richard]

The Big Society

David Cameron has launched his "big society" drive to empower communities, describing it as his "great passion".

In a speech in Liverpool, he said groups should be able to run post offices, libraries, transport services and shape housing projects.

Also announcing plans to use dormant bank accounts to fund projects, Mr Cameron said the concept would be a "big advance for people power".

Voluntary groups have queried how the schemes will be funded.

The idea was a central theme in the Conservative general election campaign and Mr Cameron denied that he was being forced to re-launch it because of a lack of interest first time around.

While reducing the budget deficit was his "duty" and in "the national interest" he said giving individuals and communities more control of their destinies was something that had underpinned his philosophy since he became Conservative leader in 2005.

"There are the things you do because it's your passion," he said.

"Things that fire you up in the morning, that drive you, that you truly believe will make a real difference to the country you love, and my great passion is building the big society."

The prime minister said community projects would be established in four parts of the UK - Liverpool; Eden Valley, Cumbria; Windsor and Maidenhead and the London borough of Sutton - as part of efforts to "turn government completely on its head".

Each of the project areas - which Mr Cameron said had approached ministers asking to take forward the initiative - will be given an expert organiser and dedicated civil servants to ensure "people power" initiatives get off the ground and inspire a wider change.

The initiatives being championed include a local buy-out of a rural pub, efforts to recruit volunteers to keep museums open, support to speed up broadband supply, and giving residents more power over council spending.

These schemes and others in the future, he said, would represent "the biggest, most dramatic redistribution of power from elites in Whitehall to the man and woman in the street".

In the past, he said, the talents and initiative of people had been wasted, claiming that over-centralised government had turned public sector workers into the "weary, disillusioned puppets of government targets".

Mr Cameron acknowledged the transformation he was seeking would not happen overnight and stressed it was not a matter of the government stepping aside and letting people fend for themselves.

"Of course there is not one lever you can simply pull to create a big society," he said.

"We should not be naive enough to think that simply if government rolls back and does less than miraculously society will spring up and do more.

"The truth is we need a government that helps to build a big society."

As well as encouraging greater volunteering and philanthropy, Mr Cameron confirmed plans to use funds stuck in dormant bank accounts to enable "some of the most dynamic" charities, social enterprises and voluntary groups to take over the running of public services.

It is hoped that hundreds of millions of pounds will eventually be available in start-up funding through a Big Society Bank, to be matched by private investment.

Mr Cameron rejected suggestions that the plans were "cover" for substantial cuts in public services and that the public were either confused or disinterested by the proposals.

"I don't accept that people don't understand what this is," he said.

Everyone was aware of the "great work" that volunteers were already doing in communities up and down the country, he said, and it was his ambition to simply expand this.

"It is incredibly simple idea and one, I think, is catching on," he said.

Shadow education secretary Ed Balls said the idea was a distraction from the government's plans to cut jobs and investment in the public sector and suggested Mr Cameron should "apologise" to people in Liverpool for stopping plans to rebuild 20 schools in the city.

Voluntary groups have broadly welcomed the idea but expressed concerns about how it would be funded, given that public support for them is likely to be cut as part of the budget squeeze.

"It is going to be very challenging for them to play a bigger role if they have less resources to do it," said Ben Kernighan, from the National Council for Voluntary Organisations.

Good , bad or indifferent?

[TrentVilla]

From no such thing as society to big society. I just don't buy it to be honest Richard, it just smacks to me of trying to get the public to step in and fill the void left by the cuts in funding for the very same things Cameron is asking people to support.

[Jon]

Can't see how it can realistically work.

I'b thinking back to that labour pre election video with the housewife running around doing everything that public services used to cover. I guess Ian Drat may have a link to that somewhere?

I can't see how it can work at all, without huge investment anyway, and that isn't going to happen.

[Risso]

From no such thing as society

That's got to be the most misquoted statement in history.

[drat01]

Norman Smith Political Analyst BBC Radio4

Norman Smith Chief political correspondent, BBC Radio 4

The 'big society' is David Cameron's Big Idea. His aides say it is about empowering communities, redistributing power and fostering a culture of volunteerism.

Perhaps no wonder then that Tory candidates during the general election found it difficult to sell the idea to voters.

So why is David Cameron returning to this theme ?

In part because he does view it as his answer to Big Government - but there are also more basic political motives.

First, it's about providing a different agenda to the day by day litany of cuts, cuts and more cuts.

Second, it is - as Eric Pickles has acknowledged - about saving money. If people are doing things for free then you don't have to pay public servants to do them for you.

So beneath the grand-sounding philosophy there is hard-nosed, practical politics behind the 'big society' message.

[Jon]

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987

[TrentVilla]

From no such thing as society

That's got to be the most misquoted statement in history.

The actual quote;

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987

[Jon]

Norman Smith Political Analyst BBC Radio4

Norman Smith Chief political correspondent, BBC Radio 4

The 'big society' is David Cameron's Big Idea. His aides say it is about empowering communities, redistributing power and fostering a culture of volunteerism.

Perhaps no wonder then that Tory candidates during the general election found it difficult to sell the idea to voters.

So why is David Cameron returning to this theme ?

In part because he does view it as his answer to Big Government - but there are also more basic political motives.

First, it's about providing a different agenda to the day by day litany of cuts, cuts and more cuts.

Second, it is - as Eric Pickles has acknowledged - about saving money. If people are doing things for free then you don't have to pay public servants to do them for you.

So beneath the grand-sounding philosophy there is hard-nosed, practical politics behind the 'big society' message.

Who the feck is going to be doing this shit for free?

[Jon]

C'mon Ian. Find us that video link!!

it was spot on! :nod:

[TrentVilla]

Who the feck is going to be doing this shit for free?

Perhaps those people who used to be paid to do it but end up losing their jobs due to budget cuts could?

Its nonesense.

[drat01]

Can't see how it can realistically work.

I'b thinking back to that labour pre election video with the housewife running around doing everything that public services used to cover. I guess Ian Drat may have a link to that somewhere?

I can't see how it can work at all, without huge investment anyway, and that isn't going to happen.

link

[avfc89]

Oh god! Not the Big Society...