AshVilla Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Chelsea bid 25 mill for stones and everton reject it.Redonkulous Don't know why they are turning that down, he isn't that good, and for £25million Martinez can buy a dozen Honduran players no ones ever heard of Because they'll come back and offer more. The balance of power is never going to shift when you get big clubs spunking loads of money on average players Yet more money for Everton to cement their place in the top 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) English perceptions of high line defence has been behind for a couple of years now. Its weird how people from this country will always say "arsenal/barca/bayern cant defend, chelsea/stoke etc have excellent defenders and can setup a proper defence" when it all comes down to styles. These teams defenders are going to "look" like theyre worse as theyre sitting on the half way line as they need midfield to contain/press. As soon as the opposition team break past the midfield they are left "exposed" as usually the fullbacks are up the pitch and attackers have achers of space to run into. This just leads to super high variance defence which leads to perceptions of them being bad defenders when things go wrong (but its not really going that wrong) But you have a team set up so the defence only have to move 10 yards forward and back and only have to deal with crosses (which is like the easiest thing for defenders to do)/have protection from fullbacks and CM, they get labelled as world class/elite defenders. (Terry) You only have to look at viva la AVB reign under chelsea to see how horrible these defenders become when trying to play high line/play from the back. (but ofc it was "AVB cant set up defences") Kos has to play a high line with Per mert which he has to cover for over and over again. And hes had no DCM or good goalkeeper and hes still managed to look elite. He is #1 when it comes to the "high line defender" itw. You stick all these defenders from the pressing teams into mourinho 11 where they get constant protection and happy to concede space then you will get them all looking like theyre top 3 defenders itw Kos > terry/cahill. or to look at it another way, would cahill/terry get ahead of kos in arsenal setup? Noway, they would get destroyed. Just how Per.Mert gets exposed. Hes been the next level for about 2 years now. The only defender who was on his level was Kompany, but hes dropped off a little bit the past 2 years Edited July 30, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry, it's absolutely **** ridiculous to say that Terry or Cahill would get "destroyed" playing in Arsenals defence. Sort yourself out lad, or at least lay off the hyperbole. Edited July 30, 2015 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Terry would get exposed so badly.. hes 34 years old and hasnt got the legs to cover all that ground. They got pretty exposed when AVB tried to play it and they would if he played in arsenal side. heres just a quick google of AVB at chelsea... "The young Portuguese manager tried to replicate that style at Chelsea but to no avail. Defenders like John Terry and Alex didn’t really have the pace to track back when caught out of position, whilst David Luiz’s playing style was always a calamity in a structure that allows minimal errors." "It involved heavy pressing which expectedly led to playing a high defensive line, which would suit younger more dynamic players. Naturally the key senior players like John Terry and Frank Lampard were not too pleased to find themselves frequently warming the bench." " The high defensive line which had not worked with John Terry at Stamford Bridge did not look convincing with Michael Dawson," "However, that policy has proved problematic for Villas-Boas at Chelsea, whose back four is simply not equipped to play it. John Terry is a battering ram of a defender who is at his best when the ball is in front of him. But leave space behind him and his lack of pace can be exploited. At 31, the limited pace he did once have is deserting him, making him even more vulnerable " Hardly rediculous to think few years later hes going to get even more exposed than he previously did at this stage of his career. I *think* last season mourinho started with higher line/highish press and moved it further back the longer the season went on edit: i just lumped cahill/terry together. Cahill wouldnt get destroyed/exposed badly. Terry would Edited July 30, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Terry would get exposed so badly.. hes 34 years old and hasnt got the legs to cover all that ground. They got pretty exposed when AVB tried to play it and they would if he played in arsenal side. heres just a quick google of AVB at chelsea... "The young Portuguese manager tried to replicate that style at Chelsea but to no avail. Defenders like John Terry and Alex didn’t really have the pace to track back when caught out of position, whilst David Luiz’s playing style was always a calamity in a structure that allows minimal errors." "It involved heavy pressing which expectedly led to playing a high defensive line, which would suit younger more dynamic players. Naturally the key senior players like John Terry and Frank Lampard were not too pleased to find themselves frequently warming the bench." " The high defensive line which had not worked with John Terry at Stamford Bridge did not look convincing with Michael Dawson," "However, that policy has proved problematic for Villas-Boas at Chelsea, whose back four is simply not equipped to play it. John Terry is a battering ram of a defender who is at his best when the ball is in front of him. But leave space behind him and his lack of pace can be exploited. At 31, the limited pace he did once have is deserting him, making him even more vulnerable" Hardly rediculous to think few years later hes going to get even more exposed than he previously did at this stage of his career Cool story Wouldreadagain/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Has Con got a new account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Love to be educated how terry wouldnt get badly exposed. Please do. Will happily change my mind if the arguments are legit and not just "hes elite for chelsea so he will be elite for arsenal" Edited July 30, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 AVBs fault for playing a super high line with a defender like John Terry and walking mistake Luis. Play to your squads strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) thats my point lol ^^ Edited July 30, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's the word "destroyed" buddy. Players like Baker get "destroyed". I've seen Terry and Cahill have bad games in systems not best suited to them, but I have never seen either of them "destroyed". Besides which, Mertesacker has the turning circle of a tank. So what's going on there then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Whats going on there is that hes been heavily blasted for being the weak link in their defence (from fans and pundits) and from the very same post you decided to nitpick terminology Kos has to play a high line with Per mert which he has to cover for over and over again. And theyve replaced him with a new defender in January because he isnt good enough for that defensive style. Sorry but the reason AVB got sacked is because his team got constantly "destroyed" defensively(for a top 4 team that is). It wasnt just a couple of bad games in a system. They got exploited massively, enough to warrent him to get the sack as he was too stubborn to change style fwiw: when i said destroyed...i was talking for a top 4 team and how much they would/should be getting exposed. Not as in average defender etc. Sorry for the confusion. JT still is an excellent defender Edited July 30, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2015 Newcastle finalise signing of 43 year old Mbemba. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Palace are signing Conor Wickham! :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Reported 10 - 15 million as well what a joke Sunderland would really be in the shit this season if they had no money coming in looks like Crystal Palace are going to do them a favour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 haha, wut! Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 £9m for Conor Wickham? What has he ever done to show that he's a premier league player? It's baffling how a club could think that's a good way to spend money. You can only judge a player on what you see and I see nothing in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alakagom Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Newcastle finalise signing of 43 year old Mbemba. Even though I love our signings Amavi,Gueye and hopefully Veretout they have done amazingly well with the Wijnaldum him and Mitrovic...hopefully our prove to be more effective at the end of season though. Mbemba is basically like Okore, very pacey strong centre back, wonder how they will compare across the season. Edited July 30, 2015 by Alakagom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 £9m for Conor Wickham? What has he ever done to show that he's a premier league player? It's baffling how a club could think that's a good way to spend money. You can only judge a player on what you see and I see nothing in him. I think he is a decent player when he actually plays at striker. For some reason, Sunderland played him at LM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artetasgirl Posted July 30, 2015 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2015 Chelsea bid 25 mill for stones and everton reject it.Redonkulous Don't know why they are turning that down, he isn't that good I've seen every single game he has played for us, and I beg to differ. He is one of the best I've seen play for us and I've been going over 20 years now. If it was up to me, I'd sell every single other first team player at the club before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ball playing centre back, good player, will be a future England centre back and a good long term replacement for terry Definitely paying English tax on him though, a £30m player he ain't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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